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Accidental death my 
ACCIDENT VERDICT AFTER RIDER, 43, DIES IN CRASH
11:00 - 20 October 2003
A Yate man died when his motorbike ploughed into a car as it was making a turn, an inquest heard. Michael Frost suffered fatal chest and abdominal injuries when his Kawasaki Ninja crashed into an oncoming grey Vauxhall Vectra on the B4058 near Iron Acton.
Mr Frost, aged 43, from Longcroft, Yate, was travelling within the legal speed limit and was not under the influence of alcohol when the accident happened, the Bristol inquest heard.
The Vauxhall was turning right into the Bristol road just before a left-hand bend.
Motorist Sheila Cooper said the traffic volume was smaller than average because of the lack of vehicles normally going to and from schools at that time of day in term time.
She said in a statement to the court: "Traffic was moving slowly because a car was turning right into Bristol Road.
"I saw a black motorbike coming the other way and suddenly heard a loud bang.
''The motorcyclist went over the car and landed on the other side of the road.
"The car did a 90 degree turn under the impact. The bike ended up in bits in the middle of the road.
"Fellow motorist Paul Flannery said: "The car was quite slow in making its manoeuvre. I didn't see the black bike coming. I don't know how fast it was travelling."
Sergeant David Loat, an accident investigator, said that the driver of the car didn't see the bike until the accident occurred.
Deputy coroner Brian Whitehouse, who recorded a verdict of accidental death, said:
"It is not the purpose of this court to determine any question of blame."
ACCIDENT VERDICT AFTER RIDER, 43, DIES IN CRASH
11:00 - 20 October 2003
A Yate man died when his motorbike ploughed into a car as it was making a turn, an inquest heard. Michael Frost suffered fatal chest and abdominal injuries when his Kawasaki Ninja crashed into an oncoming grey Vauxhall Vectra on the B4058 near Iron Acton.
Mr Frost, aged 43, from Longcroft, Yate, was travelling within the legal speed limit and was not under the influence of alcohol when the accident happened, the Bristol inquest heard.
The Vauxhall was turning right into the Bristol road just before a left-hand bend.
Motorist Sheila Cooper said the traffic volume was smaller than average because of the lack of vehicles normally going to and from schools at that time of day in term time.
She said in a statement to the court: "Traffic was moving slowly because a car was turning right into Bristol Road.
"I saw a black motorbike coming the other way and suddenly heard a loud bang.
''The motorcyclist went over the car and landed on the other side of the road.
"The car did a 90 degree turn under the impact. The bike ended up in bits in the middle of the road.
"Fellow motorist Paul Flannery said: "The car was quite slow in making its manoeuvre. I didn't see the black bike coming. I don't know how fast it was travelling."
Sergeant David Loat, an accident investigator, said that the driver of the car didn't see the bike until the accident occurred.
Deputy coroner Brian Whitehouse, who recorded a verdict of accidental death, said:
"It is not the purpose of this court to determine any question of blame."
WTF. 
This is the type of thing that pi$$es me off. Avon and Somerset Scamera partnership are currently dishing out over 10,000 tickets a month for for speeding. Yet all is done against a driver who has killed a biker.
Where is the bloody logic, harang people who may have a statistical chance of having an accident because horror of horrors they occasionally break a speed limits (many of which are set for political reasons). Or ban people whose bad driving has caused accidents and or killed people.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 20th October 17:38
This is the type of thing that pi$$es me off. Avon and Somerset Scamera partnership are currently dishing out over 10,000 tickets a month for for speeding. Yet
all is done against a driver who has killed a biker. Where is the bloody logic, harang people who may have a statistical chance of having an accident because horror of horrors they occasionally break a speed limits (many of which are set for political reasons). Or ban people whose bad driving has caused accidents and or killed people.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 20th October 17:38
All Terrain said:
Yeah but you should be able to stop in the area in which you can see. The bike was going to fast imho.
I'm sorry but that's nonsense. If a car pulls across directly in front of another vehicle then the only conclusion you can reach is that the driver is negligent and culpable in my opinion.
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Monday 20th October 17:41
hang on then how the hell do you turn right before a bend? you couldn't, just incase someone happened to come round the corner!
As I Said you should be able to stop in the area you can see before you, and if thats not a lot you should be going slower. what if on the bikers side of road there was a car whose engine had just seized? stuck in the road and BLAM a bike smacks into the back! erm whose fault is it?
Edited to add I'd agree with you if it were a straight, but it wasnt.
>> Edited by All Terrain on Monday 20th October 17:47
As I Said you should be able to stop in the area you can see before you, and if thats not a lot you should be going slower. what if on the bikers side of road there was a car whose engine had just seized? stuck in the road and BLAM a bike smacks into the back! erm whose fault is it?
Edited to add I'd agree with you if it were a straight, but it wasnt.
>> Edited by All Terrain on Monday 20th October 17:47
One of those tragic situations where it could be argued forever whose fault it was, but the facts are that the motorcyclist is the one who is dead. I think everybody who sets out on a motor cycle should realise that they have less chance of making it home than a car driver. Being in the right doesn't give you a second chance in a situation like the one described
The article says
"[the bicycle rider]...was travelling within the legal speed limit and was not under the influence of alcohol when the accident happened ..."
and
"... the driver of the car didn't see the bike until the accident occurred"
It would be interesting to know if this crossroads is an accident blackspot.
"[the bicycle rider]...was travelling within the legal speed limit and was not under the influence of alcohol when the accident happened ..."
and
"... the driver of the car didn't see the bike until the accident occurred"
It would be interesting to know if this crossroads is an accident blackspot.
Bodo said:
The article says
"[the bicycle rider]...was travelling within the legal speed limit and was not under the influence of alcohol when the accident happened ..."
and
"... the driver of the car didn't see the bike until the accident occurred"
It would be interesting to know if this crossroads is an accident blackspot.
I know the road and the corner and I can tell you that it is an open corner that you can see all the way through. The road was an NSL and has been downgraded to either 40mph or 50mph.
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Monday 20th October 18:05
Events like these really upset me. Some guy minding his own and then BANG ! Its all over.
If this is the classic car turning right and the "oh, but I did'nt see him officer" defence, then another tragic loss has happened because someone was'nt paying enough attention.
This is such a waste
And again , it illustrates how the focus of law enforcement and driver training must change so that it is about continuous development and improvement
Can it be right that once someone has passed their test they are left to their own devices forever?
Why is'nt a driver awareness and reaction simulation built into the test?
Why can't we all be encouraged to attend advanced driving and awareness lessons, with road tax reductions, tax relief, and big insurance incentives for those who pass?
Why can't government be more creative about reducing this senseless killing rather than just gatso and tax us into submission !!!
WHY???
toppstuff said:
Events like these really upset me. Some guy minding his own and then BANG ! Its all over.
If this is the classic car turning right and the "oh, but I did'nt see him officer" defence, then another tragic loss has happened because someone was'nt paying enough attention.
This is such a waste
And again , it illustrates how the focus of law enforcement and driver training must change so that it is about continuous development and improvement
Can it be right that once someone has passed their test they are left to their own devices forever?
Why is'nt a driver awareness and reaction simulation built into the test?
Why can't we all be encouraged to attend advanced driving and awareness lessons, with road tax reductions, tax relief, and big insurance incentives for those who pass?
Why can't government be more creative about reducing this senseless killing rather than just gatso and tax us into submission !!!
WHY???
The simple answer is that common sense policies don't prop up the NHS/public transport/immigration. Am I being overly paranoid when I suggest that commonly held view is "well, he was only a biker..."
Here you go, have a look at the attached map reference. THe accident occured at the cross roads in the centre of the map, where the B4058 crosses the B4059. I drove past a while after the accident happened and saw the wreckage. Very traumatic and very clear how it all happened...
www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=367500&y=183500&z=3&sv=367500,183500&st=4&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Monday 20th October 18:12
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Monday 20th October 18:13
All Terrain said:
Yeah but you should be able to stop in the area in which you can see. The bike was going to fast imho.
So you're driving down the road at a reasonable speed, about 100 yards away you see a car waiting to turn right, you slow down to 5mph? Because as I see it, you think that the biker should have been able to stop when the dozy cow turned in front of him.
If someone turns right in front of you, you won't be able to stop if you're only a few yards away from them when they turn.
Unless of course we've all done as you do, which is slow to 5 mph everytime you see another car at a junction
Mon ami mate, the map reference and the fact that this is a straight and open road makes it even more depressing.
This was someones son/ husband/father/lover for gods sake. It could be me or you.
Pulling in front of someone is simply inexcusable. Unless the rider was doing the full Fogarty at 100mph ( and there is no evidence that he was ) then the driver must be held more accountable.
Again, at risk of repeating myself, but a common sense approach to road safety rather than this "speed kills" over simplification is what is needed. If people do not pay enough attention or demonstrate poor driving skills then take them off the road and train them.
Here's an idea. Why not quadruple the cost of the driving test but include a reaction test and instruction on awareness with a specialist instructor, to include education on common accidents and how to avoid them and fast motorway driving.
And then give people cash bonuses if they pass advanced driving courses.
Its got to be cheaper than numerous gatso's and scooping poor buggers off the road..
This was someones son/ husband/father/lover for gods sake. It could be me or you.
Pulling in front of someone is simply inexcusable. Unless the rider was doing the full Fogarty at 100mph ( and there is no evidence that he was ) then the driver must be held more accountable.
Again, at risk of repeating myself, but a common sense approach to road safety rather than this "speed kills" over simplification is what is needed. If people do not pay enough attention or demonstrate poor driving skills then take them off the road and train them.
Here's an idea. Why not quadruple the cost of the driving test but include a reaction test and instruction on awareness with a specialist instructor, to include education on common accidents and how to avoid them and fast motorway driving.
And then give people cash bonuses if they pass advanced driving courses.
Its got to be cheaper than numerous gatso's and scooping poor buggers off the road..
jim'schim said:
Yeah but you should be able to stop in the area in which you can see. The bike was going to fast imho.
So you're driving down the road at a reasonable speed, about 100 yards away you see a car waiting to turn right, you slow down to 5mph? Because as I see it, you think that the biker should have been able to stop when the dozy cow turned in front of him.
If someone turns right in front of you, you won't be able to stop if you're only a few yards away from them when they turn.
Unless of course we've all done as you do, which is slow to 5 mph everytime you see another car at a junction
no for corners.
All Terrain said:
no for corners.
There are many hundreds of corners in this country which you can't see round. Many of them are in an NSL area, what speed do you personally drive round these corners at? To use your own example there may be a seized car waiting round one, I take it you drive round each corner at no more than say 15-20 mph?
Or are you just anti-biker?
Gazboy said:
In January I was in heavy traffic, traveling at 15mph, when a woman pulled out infront of me when I was less than 15 feet away from her, my feet never touched the brakes. She was charged with driving without due car and attention, I received a dislocated shoulder, whiplash and hyper extention of the spinal back muscles.
Well I guess ALL TERAIN would consider it was your fault, as you should be able to stop in the distance you can see
But in seriousness, your example proves my point.
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