RE: Niche Busting
Sunday 3rd March 2002
Niche Busting
Robert Farago questions why the major manufacturers are off on a bender of 'niche-busting'.
Discussion
Actuaally, there is a common denomonator here - both have V12 engines - the Spitfire was blessed with a good old Merlin, which in de-catted form put out about 600 brake horse. Mind you, it had 6 inch exhausts. That's long, not wide !
Also seem to recall the Merlin was about 24 litres in its last incarnation. Phew - no replacement for displacement, huh ?
Also seem to recall the Merlin was about 24 litres in its last incarnation. Phew - no replacement for displacement, huh ?
SLR....hmmmmm, I want one. Well two actually. One standard and then I'll get Brabus to modify the second (as it's bound to be lacking in BHP!).
Most other niches seem to be crossover vehicles that will only appeal to a limited number of people - but then I guess that's why they call 'em niches!
Most other niches seem to be crossover vehicles that will only appeal to a limited number of people - but then I guess that's why they call 'em niches!
Later incarnations of the Merlin engine were putting out over 1200BHP. That is with full compression on the superchargers and an improved carb / inj process (never remember if injection made it after WWII). Either way double the output of the engine in five years.... If they could only do that with car engines?
As for Merlin engines in cars? Well, several Rolls Royce cars have be converted to take the 24 Litre engine. The old Rolls coachbuilts were the only ones that can cope with the weight and space required (very upright engine). There was an article in Classic and Sports Car sometime ago with the details of one - very impressed witht the amount of engineering that went into it. However, still didnt fix one major problem - cant give it full power as the gearbox just couldnt take it. Mind you 600lbs torque at 1,500RPM sounds interesting....
Oh, and the more recent Merlins in air racers are even more powerful, but that is another story....
Cheers,
Paul
As for Merlin engines in cars? Well, several Rolls Royce cars have be converted to take the 24 Litre engine. The old Rolls coachbuilts were the only ones that can cope with the weight and space required (very upright engine). There was an article in Classic and Sports Car sometime ago with the details of one - very impressed witht the amount of engineering that went into it. However, still didnt fix one major problem - cant give it full power as the gearbox just couldnt take it. Mind you 600lbs torque at 1,500RPM sounds interesting....
Oh, and the more recent Merlins in air racers are even more powerful, but that is another story....
Cheers,
Paul
quote:
A passenger car with more power than a spitfire? Easy. My dear old spitfire put out 71 bhp. Oh the one with wings.....
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That's more than mines putting out at the moment, it needs a new alternator.
Just a note the later Spitfires (Supermarine that is) had Rolls Royce Griffons.
IIRC the Merlin II used in the Spitfire MkIa (Battle of Britain vintage) had about 1060hp running 100-octane fuel.
The ultimate Merlin-powered Spit was probably the Merlin 66 powered L.F. MkIX, which had a supercharger geared to low altitude, and could produce nearly 2000hp running on 150-octane fuel.
Hope this helps
The ultimate Merlin-powered Spit was probably the Merlin 66 powered L.F. MkIX, which had a supercharger geared to low altitude, and could produce nearly 2000hp running on 150-octane fuel.
Hope this helps
All these manufactureres keep banging on about utilising niche markets to maximise volume, but I'm not convinced this isn't just another industry fad.
The latest jargon to baffle the shareholders/investors into underwriting the cost of all this tangent chasing.
Why do BMW/Jag/Merc need entry level cars nayway? Surely a massive part of thier marques was the exclusivity and prestige of the badge, not the fact that they sell everying from a plutocrat mobile, roght down to a tartan shopping trolley?
>> Edited by DIGGA on Thursday 14th March 13:51
The latest jargon to baffle the shareholders/investors into underwriting the cost of all this tangent chasing.
Why do BMW/Jag/Merc need entry level cars nayway? Surely a massive part of thier marques was the exclusivity and prestige of the badge, not the fact that they sell everying from a plutocrat mobile, roght down to a tartan shopping trolley?
>> Edited by DIGGA on Thursday 14th March 13:51
Good points Digga. I think that luxury vehicle manufacturers are chasing niches because of value car brands raising the game in the lower end of the market (providing better product) and thus moving up the value chain to eat a share of BMW et als traditional market.
So, luxury manufacturers are geting squeezed, so look for ways to maintain share holder value, and try to target lower price point consumers, known as 'mass affluents' with ideas like the 1 series, the A Class and the A2. These people aspire to the brands, but consider the traditional product out of reach for either financial of lifestyle reasons.
In doing so, they hope that their brand values aren't diluted, as that will affect all products in the range. I can understand the rationale for mass-market producers aiming at the luxury market (VW, for e.g.), but I think that the transition the other way is strategically misguided
So, luxury manufacturers are geting squeezed, so look for ways to maintain share holder value, and try to target lower price point consumers, known as 'mass affluents' with ideas like the 1 series, the A Class and the A2. These people aspire to the brands, but consider the traditional product out of reach for either financial of lifestyle reasons.
In doing so, they hope that their brand values aren't diluted, as that will affect all products in the range. I can understand the rationale for mass-market producers aiming at the luxury market (VW, for e.g.), but I think that the transition the other way is strategically misguided
quote:
quote:
Just a note the later Spitfires (Supermarine that is) had Rolls Royce Griffons.
Never heard that one before, the Spitfire, DagaDagaDagaDagaDagaDaga was always powered by Merlins! hang on
From the Mark XII (1815HP Griffon Mk VI) onwards the Spitfire was powered by the Griffon
now where did I leave my anorak?
quote:
Never heard that one before, the Spitfire, DagaDagaDagaDagaDagaDaga was always powered by Merlins!
Supraman's right - the Spit MkXII and MkXIV were both powered by Griffons. The MkXIV in particular was probably the ultimate wartime variant of the Spitfire.
(edit)
On reflection, you're right Steve, I'm getting back to my aviation boards where they won't look at me funny for knowing all this crap
>> Edited by Bombjack on Thursday 14th March 15:02
quote:
Well I never knew that! Doesn't matter what anyone says, I still want to put a 24 litre V12 Merlin in a Griff!
>> Edited by tvradict on Thursday 14th March 15:10
The 1937 Merlin II special developed for a world land-plane speed record attempt stuck out 2,160HP. This should give your Griff adequate performance
If it's still a bit sluggish go for a 1944 Merlin 130. They managed to get 2,640HP out of one of these - but only for 15 minutes.
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