MP3’s and MP3 players
Discussion
Thinking about converting my entire music collection to MP3 and have quite a lot of questions you may all be able to help with. Firstly there’s getting the media into MP3 format:
CDs: Currently I’m just using real player and my laptop CD drive to copy the tracks to my HDD in MP3 format. Would I get a better quality if I ran a line out from a decent hi-fi separates CD player? If my hi-fi CD player has an optical out can I get a card for my PC that has an optical in? Is there any benefit to doing this? I think copying from a CD to HDD is just a straight digital file copy so this should give the same quality as on the CD.
Cassettes and Vinyl: I was planning to run a line out from my hi-fi to the line in on my PC and just use an MP3 recording program to save the playback as an MP3. Does the quality of the sound card in the PC have any impact on the final recording quality? Does the MP3 recorder software have an impact on sound quality? Can anyone recommend a decent MP3 recorder? I assume real player does it but I haven’t checked yet. Also, is there any recording software that will recognise breaks in tracks and split the MP3 files accordingly or am I stuck with pausing the cassette/raising the needle after each track and then saving the MP3?
Secondly there’s the issue of playback:
Ideally what I’d like to do is keep a “master collection” on a portable HDD drive that connects to my laptop using a USB port. I estimate 30 GB for the whole collection and allowing some future expansion. But I’d also like a hi-fi separates MP3 player for the lounge and one in my car and to be able to synch my collection between all three devises. So is there an in car and home device with this kind of storage space and would either of them allow me to easily download my master collection from the portable HDD drive using a USB port (or other connection)?
Sorry for all of the questions but this is all a bit new to me.
I suppose put simply my overall question is how can I have my entire music collection in one format on my PC, at home and in the car at the same time without having to save everything to MP3 three times?
CDs: Currently I’m just using real player and my laptop CD drive to copy the tracks to my HDD in MP3 format. Would I get a better quality if I ran a line out from a decent hi-fi separates CD player? If my hi-fi CD player has an optical out can I get a card for my PC that has an optical in? Is there any benefit to doing this? I think copying from a CD to HDD is just a straight digital file copy so this should give the same quality as on the CD.
Cassettes and Vinyl: I was planning to run a line out from my hi-fi to the line in on my PC and just use an MP3 recording program to save the playback as an MP3. Does the quality of the sound card in the PC have any impact on the final recording quality? Does the MP3 recorder software have an impact on sound quality? Can anyone recommend a decent MP3 recorder? I assume real player does it but I haven’t checked yet. Also, is there any recording software that will recognise breaks in tracks and split the MP3 files accordingly or am I stuck with pausing the cassette/raising the needle after each track and then saving the MP3?
Secondly there’s the issue of playback:
Ideally what I’d like to do is keep a “master collection” on a portable HDD drive that connects to my laptop using a USB port. I estimate 30 GB for the whole collection and allowing some future expansion. But I’d also like a hi-fi separates MP3 player for the lounge and one in my car and to be able to synch my collection between all three devises. So is there an in car and home device with this kind of storage space and would either of them allow me to easily download my master collection from the portable HDD drive using a USB port (or other connection)?
Sorry for all of the questions but this is all a bit new to me.
I suppose put simply my overall question is how can I have my entire music collection in one format on my PC, at home and in the car at the same time without having to save everything to MP3 three times?
I'll answer quickly about getting analogue onto the PC (recording vinyl) Yes the soundcard makes a huge difference, you want one that bypasses all the div-x (I think) I've got a midi-man audiophile 24/96. Rave reviews, great card, £100 ish from anywhere (music shop online etc) If you want more info try the discussion boards on harmony-central.com
MP3 quality depends on sample rates 192 kbs seems to be OK, you can still notice the difference if you play them back to back with a CD though
And yes, any ripping software should majke a digital copy on the PC
MP3 quality depends on sample rates 192 kbs seems to be OK, you can still notice the difference if you play them back to back with a CD though
And yes, any ripping software should majke a digital copy on the PC
t1grm said:I've had one of these for 2 years and it's brilliant...
Ideally what I’d like to do is keep a “master collection” on a portable HDD drive that connects to my laptop using a USB port. I estimate 30 GB for the whole collection and allowing some future expansion. But I’d also like a hi-fi separates MP3 player for the lounge and one in my car and to be able to synch my collection between all three devises. So is there an in car and home device with this kind of storage space and would either of them allow me to easily download my master collection from the portable HDD drive using a USB port (or other connection)?
www.slimp3.com/
...although mine isn't the wireless version. It connects to you pc over the network so there's no need to store the mp3 files anywhere else but your pc hard drive.
Mark
Incorrigible said:
I'll answer quickly about getting analogue onto the PC (recording vinyl) Yes the soundcard makes a huge difference, you want one that bypasses all the div-x (I think) I've got a midi-man audiophile 24/96. Rave reviews, great card, £100 ish from anywhere (music shop online etc) If you want more info try the discussion boards on harmony-central.com
MP3 quality depends on sample rates 192 kbs seems to be OK, you can still notice the difference if you play them back to back with a CD though
And yes, any ripping software should majke a digital copy on the PC
He's right you know - get a good quality sound card with the higher sample rate support and you should be doing just fine. Most standard (or on motherboard) sound cards cant support the better AD/DA convertors and therefore you need to look at those naff external ones. Quite why they are external only (or the majority are) I dont know... but there are a stack available now and the price is coming down. Take a look around though - some might have the connectors you prefer / need.
MP3 quality is good at 192Kbps and is technically as good as CD, but it does loose some quality in the conversion and compression. For the majority of stuff you would be pushed to spot the difference, except slightly less "dynamic". 128Kbps is also pretty good as a sample rate - but it really does depend on the souce quality. Some of the CD's that I have converted are frankly crap quality and doing them at 192 is just un-necessary. While other high-quality recordings (DDD) really need the 192 rate. Its a bit of trial and error I am afraid.
I was going to go for a Slimp3, but ended up with a Linksys Media player. Pretty damn good and quality is good. Cheaper and wireless out of the box so fitted exactly what I wanted. But you pays your money and takes your choice. A friend as a TurtleBeach AudioTron MP3 separate and its excellent, but a little expensive at £400..!!!
Oh, and finally I got some decent speakers for my PC to go with the fairly good soundcard - result is excellent. As they say "try to get good quality components" and they are right.....
t1grm, to get your CD collection to mp3, the best thing is to use your CD-ROM drive and a decent ripping program. CDex is one of them: www.cdex.n3.net/
You don't need any optical connection between your CD-ROM and the computer, because ripping works with bytes and not with frequencies. It's already entirely digital. (It may be well possible that your CD-ROM drive already has an optical connection to your sound-chip though, but that is only needed for playing music)
You may want to consider encoding your collection to the Ogg Vorbis format, rather than mp3. Ogg Vorbis is newer, free, and you will never pay licence costs for that format.
Ogg Vorbis compared to mp3 compresses music dynamically, which means that files are even (significantly) smaller, but having the same perceivable quality. CDex will encode as well to *.ogg
Every modern music software will recognize Ogg Vorbis files the way it does with mp3 files.
Hardware mp3 players started supporting Ogg Vorbis a year or so ago. Hence, not every player on the market supports Ogg Vorbis; one of them being the Apple Ipod (which I don't understand why), but the Iriver harddisk players come with 40GB capacity as well, supports Ogg Vorbis, and is better value imho. www.iriver.com
Copying your music collection to three different storages looks too uncomfortable to me. Either store them centrally on a server, or put them on said hardwareplayer, and take it with you, where you want to listen to the music. The portable player will happily connect to the line-in of every amplifier via conventional cables.
>> Edited to add direct link to the Iriver harddisk-player
www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=H140
>> Edited by Bodo on Monday 29th March 11:44
You don't need any optical connection between your CD-ROM and the computer, because ripping works with bytes and not with frequencies. It's already entirely digital. (It may be well possible that your CD-ROM drive already has an optical connection to your sound-chip though, but that is only needed for playing music)
You may want to consider encoding your collection to the Ogg Vorbis format, rather than mp3. Ogg Vorbis is newer, free, and you will never pay licence costs for that format.
Ogg Vorbis compared to mp3 compresses music dynamically, which means that files are even (significantly) smaller, but having the same perceivable quality. CDex will encode as well to *.ogg
Every modern music software will recognize Ogg Vorbis files the way it does with mp3 files.
Hardware mp3 players started supporting Ogg Vorbis a year or so ago. Hence, not every player on the market supports Ogg Vorbis; one of them being the Apple Ipod (which I don't understand why), but the Iriver harddisk players come with 40GB capacity as well, supports Ogg Vorbis, and is better value imho. www.iriver.com
Copying your music collection to three different storages looks too uncomfortable to me. Either store them centrally on a server, or put them on said hardwareplayer, and take it with you, where you want to listen to the music. The portable player will happily connect to the line-in of every amplifier via conventional cables.
>> Edited to add direct link to the Iriver harddisk-player
www.iriver.com/product/info.asp?p_name=H140
>> Edited by Bodo on Monday 29th March 11:44
wanty1974 said:You need a soundwave editing program, I use Steinberg stuff for all my "mucking about with music" stuff. Don't know if it's best in the application (Steinberg Wavetable) again try harmony-central.com
...and can anyone recommend a program for 'cleaning' noise & hiss from converted cassette recordings?
dern said:
Ideally what I’d like to do is keep a “master collection” on a portable HDD drive that connects to my laptop using a USB port. I estimate 30 GB for the whole collection and allowing some future expansion. But I’d also like a hi-fi separates MP3 player for the lounge and one in my car and to be able to synch my collection between all three devises. So is there an in car and home device with this kind of storage space and would either of them allow me to easily download my master collection from the portable HDD drive using a USB port (or other connection)?
I've had one of these for 2 years and it's brilliant...
www.slimp3.com/
...although mine isn't the wireless version. It connects to you pc over the network so there's no need to store the mp3 files anywhere else but your pc hard drive.
Mark
Me too, although I have the wireless one. Took me months to MP3 all of my CDs and set up the server to run the whole thing (based on one of these Mini PCs www.hushtechnologies.net - virutally silent PC with passive cooling and it looks cool!) but it works like a dream now - I have my entire music collection at the touch of a button.
Two things.
1) Check u are happy with the replay quality on the equipment you buy. If you have mainly Japanese/Asian kit Hi Fi A good MP3 player will be okay. Same sort of upfront but rather flat sound. If However you have European(ARCAM,Cyrus, etc) or Real Japanese(£2K plus) Hi Fi) it will be a let down.
2) Retain the original's. It remains illegal to make copies of Music from Original CD/Tape/LP unless you are creating a backup copy. This is still illegal but is tolerated as most people don't want an "Original" in the car or Walkman if they can help it. Given statements coming out of The trade association they are coming looking for you!
1) Check u are happy with the replay quality on the equipment you buy. If you have mainly Japanese/Asian kit Hi Fi A good MP3 player will be okay. Same sort of upfront but rather flat sound. If However you have European(ARCAM,Cyrus, etc) or Real Japanese(£2K plus) Hi Fi) it will be a let down.
2) Retain the original's. It remains illegal to make copies of Music from Original CD/Tape/LP unless you are creating a backup copy. This is still illegal but is tolerated as most people don't want an "Original" in the car or Walkman if they can help it. Given statements coming out of The trade association they are coming looking for you!
neil.b said:They look really cool
One of these Mini PCs www.hushtechnologies.net
what sound card do you use / get, and (sorry for the hijack) can you get your PC to play DVDs with 7.1 sound as good as a mid range DVD player ?Cheers for all the feedback.
So saving the CD's is not an issue and for the analogue it looks like I just need to invest in a decent external sound card.
Play back looks a bit trickier.
The i-river looks a possibility. I could save my collection to my PC HDD, dump it to the i-river via USB and then just connect the line out to my in car or home hi-fi. The only issue here is I was looking for something a bit more integrated with the latter two items. I'd have to have the i-river stuck in the glove box or something to use it in the car. Like the sound of this new Hovis-Knobs
format too.
The hush mini PC looks extremely cool and would fit well with the rest of my separates but there may be issues with replicating data since it seems you copy your CD's straight to the hush mini PC.
I have a bit more digging to do yet I think. Cheers for all the help again.
So saving the CD's is not an issue and for the analogue it looks like I just need to invest in a decent external sound card.
Play back looks a bit trickier.
The i-river looks a possibility. I could save my collection to my PC HDD, dump it to the i-river via USB and then just connect the line out to my in car or home hi-fi. The only issue here is I was looking for something a bit more integrated with the latter two items. I'd have to have the i-river stuck in the glove box or something to use it in the car. Like the sound of this new Hovis-Knobs
format too. The hush mini PC looks extremely cool and would fit well with the rest of my separates but there may be issues with replicating data since it seems you copy your CD's straight to the hush mini PC.
I have a bit more digging to do yet I think. Cheers for all the help again.
For those looking at the silent, small foot print PC route, take a look at www.mini-itx.com ... verging on daftly inexpensive.
I'm toying with shoving one behind the dash for music, navigation etc in the car.
I'm toying with shoving one behind the dash for music, navigation etc in the car.
I've been doing this sort of thing for a couple of years now. I ripped my cd collection (300 discs) to Windows Media 8 160k. It was good, but noticeably inferior to cd on my hi-fi (which is pretty high end). With the introduction of Windows Media 9, I now rip at the high quality VBR, which is indistinguishable from cd when played over a digital link to my amp (to my ears anyway).
I got an iRiver iHP-140 on Saturday, and it's excellent. It has both analogue in/out as well as optical, great sound and features. The only thing I don't like is that you can't create playlists on the player, you have to use Winamp on the PC.
If I was starting out now, I'd get the iRiver, and rip to Ogg-Vorbis at the highest bitrate.
I got an iRiver iHP-140 on Saturday, and it's excellent. It has both analogue in/out as well as optical, great sound and features. The only thing I don't like is that you can't create playlists on the player, you have to use Winamp on the PC.
If I was starting out now, I'd get the iRiver, and rip to Ogg-Vorbis at the highest bitrate.
t1grm said:
Actually I only have a laptop so external would be better for me unless you can get decent PC card sound cards which I doubt.
PCMIA with a breakout box for the inputs outputs Or you may be better going wireless, I know nothing at all about this option but I've heard good things
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