997.1 GT3 - Good Choice?
Discussion
Having accepted I probably won't get a new one allocated as I can't afford to run a fleet of Porsches, I've started to look at older GT3's. So the 997.1 seems to be available from the £70k's which seems to be not too dissimilar to the 996 and much cheaper than the 997.2, which all appear to be in 6 figure range. Aside from there being less UK 997.2s, is there good reason for the significant premium against the 997.1GT3? Is the 997.1 a safe buy or likely to break lots/be very difficult to sell without a big loss in future?
I think so, I went through a similar process in the summer and ended up with a 997.1 GT3. There seemed to me to be loads of 996s for sale (I counted circa 30 at the time) and at around 60k it seemed a no brainier to pony up the extra 20k or so for a 7.1. The .2 was around 110k and so more by some margin.
I accept that most view the .2 as an objectively better car but I prefer the slightly less smooth lines of the .1 which to me is exceptionally good looking. My analysis also led me to conclude that the .1 had the fewest differences betweeen the regular GT3 and the RS compared to the 6 and 7.2 and thus it seemed to be 98 percent of the RS for 60 percent of the price.
I hopefully intend mine to be a lifer so I'm less worried about immediate values but in terms of the value spot of the GT3 range I think this is it
I accept that most view the .2 as an objectively better car but I prefer the slightly less smooth lines of the .1 which to me is exceptionally good looking. My analysis also led me to conclude that the .1 had the fewest differences betweeen the regular GT3 and the RS compared to the 6 and 7.2 and thus it seemed to be 98 percent of the RS for 60 percent of the price.
I hopefully intend mine to be a lifer so I'm less worried about immediate values but in terms of the value spot of the GT3 range I think this is it
gr8jon said:
Is the 997.1 a safe buy or likely to break lots/be very difficult to sell without a big loss in future?
When I collected my 996 turbo after having its gearbox re-built by Sports & Classic, the next car on the ramps was a 997 GT3. So 'that' can happen to any of these cars and, according to Mike the car on the ramps had already had a rebuild by an OPC who will remain nameless, who'd subbed the job out to someone who (clearly, apparently) did not know what they were doing.Overall, the cars are very robust, although the revvy nature of the engines does encourage/endanger over-revs. SO check for them and, of course, bodywork!
I am looking at 997s and pondering... I do love the turbo, with DMS re-map to 500+ bhp it's great on track, but hard to enjoy on the roads at legal speeds. Despite what people say about it - the weight, the 4wd steering feel etc. etc. - it's a lovely car on track. That part really surprised me.
But I too have a hankering for a 997 GT3. Money no object, I think the 997.2 GT3 RS is possibly the perfect car for me aesthetically and dynamically, but I don't currently have the spare cash or appetite for debt to buy one.
Ive had my 997.1 for four years now. I love the looks , cabin and modern feel of the Gt4. But the engine just doesn't do it for me compared to the engine of the Gt3. I love the whoosh at the top end. It does feel dated compared to the GT4. But that suits me. I like to feel I have to wrestle it a bit.
Edited by evodarren on Friday 18th November 09:36
some say the 997.1 is the best GT3 because it has the lightest engine.
so the whole range is good, deciding what to buy is a hard choice esp as cars get older.
I know people take the piss out of my refresh quote, but a 997.1 GT3 is now 10 years old.
And the OP seems new to Porkers and needs to go in eyes open, looking at his garage atm.
We see lots of posts about worn out diffs, top mounts, rads, saggy rears etc etc so you have to expect to pay a bit of money out on 10 year old harder driven cars.
over 10 years extra things wear out like exhausts, starter motors, bush's, shocks etc etc.
It will not be a free ride and hence why I brought up a new car like the GT4 at the same money, it's free motoring and a car under warranty and feels very GT.
lets not forget the new RSR has the engine where the GT4 has it :-)
we also see a few owners at last !!! fitting passives and changing out the diffs and for road use a shorter final drive would also be a good idea imo. Even Porsche is catching on that shorter gearing works better lol
Porsche bits are expensive though and so is Porsche labour even at indies so £££ do add up.
A GT3 is a nice project car imo but oem vs oem out the box a GT4 would be my choice and was.
Modding the GT3 yes a great idea, but then you can unlock the GT4 engine to 425 BHp and fit a single mass flywheel, I am sure the results would be fantastic.
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
so the whole range is good, deciding what to buy is a hard choice esp as cars get older.
I know people take the piss out of my refresh quote, but a 997.1 GT3 is now 10 years old.
And the OP seems new to Porkers and needs to go in eyes open, looking at his garage atm.
We see lots of posts about worn out diffs, top mounts, rads, saggy rears etc etc so you have to expect to pay a bit of money out on 10 year old harder driven cars.
over 10 years extra things wear out like exhausts, starter motors, bush's, shocks etc etc.
It will not be a free ride and hence why I brought up a new car like the GT4 at the same money, it's free motoring and a car under warranty and feels very GT.
lets not forget the new RSR has the engine where the GT4 has it :-)
we also see a few owners at last !!! fitting passives and changing out the diffs and for road use a shorter final drive would also be a good idea imo. Even Porsche is catching on that shorter gearing works better lol
Porsche bits are expensive though and so is Porsche labour even at indies so £££ do add up.
A GT3 is a nice project car imo but oem vs oem out the box a GT4 would be my choice and was.
Modding the GT3 yes a great idea, but then you can unlock the GT4 engine to 425 BHp and fit a single mass flywheel, I am sure the results would be fantastic.
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
Porsche911R said:
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
That's pretty much what i'm doing next year - a car i plan to pass down the generations!circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
I think that age is definately relevant. Use a good specialist for a pre purchase inspection. As posted earlier, the GT4 is another option. It is a very good car and it's also newer. In terms of hardware though it is not as good as a GT3 and it has less potential £ for £ if you were ever looking to upgrade. Most of the Gen 2 chassis differences were specifically engineered to counter the PASM's increased tendancy to understeer. Although the driver can create a balance in the 997 chassis without any modifications. On saying that, these days a simple piggy back PASM ECU (say by DSC) gives much improved damping control to the original PASM system so the original Passive option may no longer be the only solution. The Gen1 v Gen2 option really comes down to whether you prefer a 3.6 or a 3.8 M unit. Both are very good. the 3.6 is revvier and the 3.8 has more torque.
On balance, I think that the £20K price difference between the Gen 1 and gen 2 makes the Gen 1 better value for money.
On balance, I think that the £20K price difference between the Gen 1 and gen 2 makes the Gen 1 better value for money.
Edited by Steve Rance on Friday 18th November 11:26
Porsche911R said:
some say the 997.1 is the best GT3 because it has the lightest engine.
so the whole range is good, deciding what to buy is a hard choice esp as cars get older.
I know people take the piss out of my refresh quote, but a 997.1 GT3 is now 10 years old.
And the OP seems new to Porkers and needs to go in eyes open, looking at his garage atm.
We see lots of posts about worn out diffs, top mounts, rads, saggy rears etc etc so you have to expect to pay a bit of money out on 10 year old harder driven cars.
over 10 years extra things wear out like exhausts, starter motors, bush's, shocks etc etc.
It will not be a free ride and hence why I brought up a new car like the GT4 at the same money, it's free motoring and a car under warranty and feels very GT.
lets not forget the new RSR has the engine where the GT4 has it :-)
we also see a few owners at last !!! fitting passives and changing out the diffs and for road use a shorter final drive would also be a good idea imo. Even Porsche is catching on that shorter gearing works better lol
Porsche bits are expensive though and so is Porsche labour even at indies so £££ do add up.
A GT3 is a nice project car imo but oem vs oem out the box a GT4 would be my choice and was.
Modding the GT3 yes a great idea, but then you can unlock the GT4 engine to 425 BHp and fit a single mass flywheel, I am sure the results would be fantastic.
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
If I have to hear about that bloody refresh again! I put a detailed post up years ago totally debunking your £10k estimate, and pretty much halving the actual cost involved, priced getting all the things you go on about ad nauseum fixed at a respected Indy.so the whole range is good, deciding what to buy is a hard choice esp as cars get older.
I know people take the piss out of my refresh quote, but a 997.1 GT3 is now 10 years old.
And the OP seems new to Porkers and needs to go in eyes open, looking at his garage atm.
We see lots of posts about worn out diffs, top mounts, rads, saggy rears etc etc so you have to expect to pay a bit of money out on 10 year old harder driven cars.
over 10 years extra things wear out like exhausts, starter motors, bush's, shocks etc etc.
It will not be a free ride and hence why I brought up a new car like the GT4 at the same money, it's free motoring and a car under warranty and feels very GT.
lets not forget the new RSR has the engine where the GT4 has it :-)
we also see a few owners at last !!! fitting passives and changing out the diffs and for road use a shorter final drive would also be a good idea imo. Even Porsche is catching on that shorter gearing works better lol
Porsche bits are expensive though and so is Porsche labour even at indies so £££ do add up.
A GT3 is a nice project car imo but oem vs oem out the box a GT4 would be my choice and was.
Modding the GT3 yes a great idea, but then you can unlock the GT4 engine to 425 BHp and fit a single mass flywheel, I am sure the results would be fantastic.
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
Stop scaremongering. Not all GT3s are run on a shoestring and dumped on the second hand market for the next unsuspecting, non-inspection having owner to be lumbered with a hypothetical £10k bill. Contrary to your belief GT3 owners, have to be able to afford to track these things in order to rag them to a state requiring a non-existent £10k refresh. Do you know how much it costs to do track days? Therefore you might understand that GT3 owners may be able to scrape a few pennies together to pay for the upkeep of their cars and actually treat them well. These aren't old beaten up 924s rebuilt by wheeler dealers.
All four dampers can be rebuilt to as new for around £500. Top mounts are cheap.
A GT4 is not a toss of a coin decision on a 7.1 GT3, they are very different cars, I personally wouldn't consider the former over the latter for many reasons (and I love the Cayman R). You bought a GT4, good for you, I think everyone and their uncle knows that's what you did, stop trashing GT3s with bunkum numbers. Rant over, 6/10 need to try better next time etc
Mousem40 said:
Porsche911R said:
some say the 997.1 is the best GT3 because it has the lightest engine.
so the whole range is good, deciding what to buy is a hard choice esp as cars get older.
I know people take the piss out of my refresh quote, but a 997.1 GT3 is now 10 years old.
And the OP seems new to Porkers and needs to go in eyes open, looking at his garage atm.
We see lots of posts about worn out diffs, top mounts, rads, saggy rears etc etc so you have to expect to pay a bit of money out on 10 year old harder driven cars.
over 10 years extra things wear out like exhausts, starter motors, bush's, shocks etc etc.
It will not be a free ride and hence why I brought up a new car like the GT4 at the same money, it's free motoring and a car under warranty and feels very GT.
lets not forget the new RSR has the engine where the GT4 has it :-)
we also see a few owners at last !!! fitting passives and changing out the diffs and for road use a shorter final drive would also be a good idea imo. Even Porsche is catching on that shorter gearing works better lol
Porsche bits are expensive though and so is Porsche labour even at indies so £££ do add up.
A GT3 is a nice project car imo but oem vs oem out the box a GT4 would be my choice and was.
Modding the GT3 yes a great idea, but then you can unlock the GT4 engine to 425 BHp and fit a single mass flywheel, I am sure the results would be fantastic.
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
If I have to hear about that bloody refresh again! I put a detailed post up years ago totally debunking your £10k estimate, and pretty much halving the actual cost involved, priced getting all the things you go on about ad nauseum fixed at a respected Indy.so the whole range is good, deciding what to buy is a hard choice esp as cars get older.
I know people take the piss out of my refresh quote, but a 997.1 GT3 is now 10 years old.
And the OP seems new to Porkers and needs to go in eyes open, looking at his garage atm.
We see lots of posts about worn out diffs, top mounts, rads, saggy rears etc etc so you have to expect to pay a bit of money out on 10 year old harder driven cars.
over 10 years extra things wear out like exhausts, starter motors, bush's, shocks etc etc.
It will not be a free ride and hence why I brought up a new car like the GT4 at the same money, it's free motoring and a car under warranty and feels very GT.
lets not forget the new RSR has the engine where the GT4 has it :-)
we also see a few owners at last !!! fitting passives and changing out the diffs and for road use a shorter final drive would also be a good idea imo. Even Porsche is catching on that shorter gearing works better lol
Porsche bits are expensive though and so is Porsche labour even at indies so £££ do add up.
A GT3 is a nice project car imo but oem vs oem out the box a GT4 would be my choice and was.
Modding the GT3 yes a great idea, but then you can unlock the GT4 engine to 425 BHp and fit a single mass flywheel, I am sure the results would be fantastic.
Perfect car for me atm would be a sharwerks 997.2 GT3 with passives, RS4.0 flywheel and final drive.
circa £185k spend.
But that would have to be a BIG investment and a life keeper as getting the money back would never happen.
Stop scaremongering. Not all GT3s are run on a shoestring and dumped on the second hand market for the next unsuspecting, non-inspection having owner to be lumbered with a hypothetical £10k bill. Contrary to your belief GT3 owners, have to be able to afford to track these things in order to rag them to a state requiring a non-existent £10k refresh. Do you know how much it costs to do track days? Therefore you might understand that GT3 owners may be able to scrape a few pennies together to pay for the upkeep of their cars and actually treat them well. These aren't old beaten up 924s rebuilt by wheeler dealers.
All four dampers can be rebuilt to as new for around £500. Top mounts are cheap.
A GT4 is not a toss of a coin decision on a 7.1 GT3, they are very different cars, I personally wouldn't consider the former over the latter for many reasons (and I love the Cayman R). You bought a GT4, good for you, I think everyone and their uncle knows that's what you did, stop trashing GT3s with bunkum numbers. Rant over, 6/10 need to try better next time etc
A friend has a nicely modified GT4 which has the DSC plug and play PASM unit fitted. I followed the car around Silverstone while I was bedding in some discs and pads. The damping control looked extremely impressive. I think that combined with a geo, cup/guards diff and decent tyres a Gen 1 997 would be a fantastic car - even when judged by contemporary standards. The same mods to a gen 2 would also make a similar difference. These mods are relatively inexpensive and would create an even more engaging drive bringing the 997 GT3 a long way forward and perhaps offering a car that was a practical a daily proposition as a 991 but with a much more engaging character.
Mousem40 said:
If I have to hear about that bloody refresh again! I put a detailed post up years ago totally debunking your £10k estimate, and pretty much halving the actual cost involved, priced getting all the things you go on about ad nauseum fixed at a respected Indy.
Stop scaremongering. Not all GT3s are run on a shoestring and dumped on the second hand market for the next unsuspecting, non-inspection having owner to be lumbered with a hypothetical £10k bill. Contrary to your belief GT3 owners, have to be able to afford to track these things in order to rag them to a state requiring a non-existent £10k refresh. Do you know how much it costs to do track days? Therefore you might understand that GT3 owners may be able to scrape a few pennies together to pay for the upkeep of their cars and actually treat them well. These aren't old beaten up 924s rebuilt by wheeler dealers.
All four dampers can be rebuilt to as new for around £500. Top mounts are cheap.
A GT4 is not a toss of a coin decision on a 7.1 GT3, they are very different cars, I personally wouldn't consider the former over the latter for many reasons (and I love the Cayman R). You bought a GT4, good for you, I think everyone and their uncle knows that's what you did, stop trashing GT3s with bunkum numbers. Rant over, 6/10 need to try better next time etc
Spending money on any car is a real aspect of ownership, I did not say an Ammount ? YOU DID The OP is new to the mark, I talked about a few items which might need checking on 10 year old cars.Stop scaremongering. Not all GT3s are run on a shoestring and dumped on the second hand market for the next unsuspecting, non-inspection having owner to be lumbered with a hypothetical £10k bill. Contrary to your belief GT3 owners, have to be able to afford to track these things in order to rag them to a state requiring a non-existent £10k refresh. Do you know how much it costs to do track days? Therefore you might understand that GT3 owners may be able to scrape a few pennies together to pay for the upkeep of their cars and actually treat them well. These aren't old beaten up 924s rebuilt by wheeler dealers.
All four dampers can be rebuilt to as new for around £500. Top mounts are cheap.
A GT4 is not a toss of a coin decision on a 7.1 GT3, they are very different cars, I personally wouldn't consider the former over the latter for many reasons (and I love the Cayman R). You bought a GT4, good for you, I think everyone and their uncle knows that's what you did, stop trashing GT3s with bunkum numbers. Rant over, 6/10 need to try better next time etc
Chill out, help the OP make a choice, the thread is not about me ! My advice is sound, I didn't even bring up the Cayman R (againYOU DID) in any post wtf ! I even said I would choose the 997.2 over the GT4 !
I posted an order I would buy the cars in, you don't agree, chill out , poor rant -1/10
Edited by Porsche911R on Saturday 19th November 08:29
Slippydiff said:
Spot on, but don't waste your breath. As countless other individuals on here have said to me, it's really not worth the time or effort constantly arguing with an individual who is SO blinkered, SO repetitive and SO parochial. Funny that his dyslexia appears to be selective too ...
Keep to topic, point out any errors in my post and talk about it, don't be a dick ! Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff