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Discussion
fioran0 said:
And interesting response Steve, thanks.
Some of what you say echos exactly my experiences exactly while the rest is exactly in the area where I still have questions (tyres v performance) and was going with this whole post in the first place.
A "soft hands" leaves the car more able to sit continuously at the edge of tyre adhesion for the stint rather than yo-yoing back and forth over it for the duration as is normal. It SHOULD make the life better but as you know, should and do are not the same thing by any stretch. If it were everything would be nice and easy.
Its very interesting that you felt it lost something sooner in terms of quali but race pace was good across an endurance distance. How much this approach gives up over a shorter race where you want to just hit the tyres as hard as you can over the 30 min duration is the biggest question I had outstanding.
It will certainly make it a smoother drive, and less fatiguing on the driver both mentally and physically, again pluses for a long race but less so on short runs.
Do you think your adapting of driving style would have resulted in your closing the short run pace short fall a second time out armed with this knowledge or do you still think it would not have been there? Were the reactions on the car were just dulled that little that there was no scope to hussle it around when trying for a 100% pace like you can when its a frenzy inside?
If anyone is reading this, I hope they picked up on your footwork comment. I know we have talked before about how these cars are driven from the rear, not by the wheel but its such an important point. In that respect, the diff is so important to things. Thats the one thing you notice if you take a run with a pro level driver, they are hitting it so hard its simply not real.
The later cars (2005 on) have such a big diff that the car is almost un-turnable in tight corners unless you rotate from the rear. Yanking the steering wheel wont help you out with this.
Even on the street cars with their less manly diff the principles still apply. The car is faster and better if you set it to understeer and rotate with the diff/throttle. Tough to learn though.
Thats v interesting ref the Manthey setup if they are taking out of the front. My opinion is that you want to add as much to the rear as you can in terms of grip anyways but that this is especially true if you are going towards a soft hands setup. The front almost takes care of itself (within reason of course). Interestingly I have never found a car quicker adding a more front tyre (with a view to gaining grip here), but adding rear width always makes it faster. It doesnt matter if theres no corresponding front increase. Of course if you can do both then things are better still
Neil apologies. I meant that I felt that the Manthey set ups took away from the rear and not the front. Often going into oversteer on a trail immediately after turn in. The only way I could find a balance was to set the front dampers to full stiff but I felt that they needed re valving to be even stiffer. Just my opinion of course.Some of what you say echos exactly my experiences exactly while the rest is exactly in the area where I still have questions (tyres v performance) and was going with this whole post in the first place.
A "soft hands" leaves the car more able to sit continuously at the edge of tyre adhesion for the stint rather than yo-yoing back and forth over it for the duration as is normal. It SHOULD make the life better but as you know, should and do are not the same thing by any stretch. If it were everything would be nice and easy.
Its very interesting that you felt it lost something sooner in terms of quali but race pace was good across an endurance distance. How much this approach gives up over a shorter race where you want to just hit the tyres as hard as you can over the 30 min duration is the biggest question I had outstanding.
It will certainly make it a smoother drive, and less fatiguing on the driver both mentally and physically, again pluses for a long race but less so on short runs.
Do you think your adapting of driving style would have resulted in your closing the short run pace short fall a second time out armed with this knowledge or do you still think it would not have been there? Were the reactions on the car were just dulled that little that there was no scope to hussle it around when trying for a 100% pace like you can when its a frenzy inside?
If anyone is reading this, I hope they picked up on your footwork comment. I know we have talked before about how these cars are driven from the rear, not by the wheel but its such an important point. In that respect, the diff is so important to things. Thats the one thing you notice if you take a run with a pro level driver, they are hitting it so hard its simply not real.
The later cars (2005 on) have such a big diff that the car is almost un-turnable in tight corners unless you rotate from the rear. Yanking the steering wheel wont help you out with this.
Even on the street cars with their less manly diff the principles still apply. The car is faster and better if you set it to understeer and rotate with the diff/throttle. Tough to learn though.
Thats v interesting ref the Manthey setup if they are taking out of the front. My opinion is that you want to add as much to the rear as you can in terms of grip anyways but that this is especially true if you are going towards a soft hands setup. The front almost takes care of itself (within reason of course). Interestingly I have never found a car quicker adding a more front tyre (with a view to gaining grip here), but adding rear width always makes it faster. It doesnt matter if theres no corresponding front increase. Of course if you can do both then things are better still
Regarding the 'soft hands' 996 cup. Initially I over drove the car which made things worse then I chatted with the engineer and found that the camber angles were low so I figured that the footprint would be good under braking so I tried reducing the braking zone - ie braking later. That really worked well and I found over a second that way. Also picked up the throttle earlier - you'd know why. Made the whole thing quick but low work on the lap. Every driver finds his own way but this worked for me
Very interested in developing this one with you.
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