sporttechnischer leitfaden
Discussion
DrMark,
It should be a lot of fun thats for sure. I let a friend borrow my ECU to run in his RSR while he was waiting on a replacement. Porsche reflashed it back to my software afterwards but didnt reset the user data. That was what max stored RPM was reading before I cleared it and cycle checked all the sensors etc with Modas.
Arcamalpha, thats a regular H pattern shifter box still. The sequential is great moving fast, not so much pottering about. The sequential is necessary in the 997, the car is turned up much much more and once you are over the learning curve it makes things much better as a driver. The 996 doesnt need it and it doesnt fit with the car from a driving perspective imho.
Terry, The one thing the aircooled cars have over the watercooled cars when stripping is the lack of cabin loom. It can look really tidy in the air cooled cars in a way it cannot in the watercooled versions. Even with the cup wiring looms and ecu (so easily half the wiring) its is much cleaner but still present in a way that cannot be disguised. The rear cabin is just criss crossed with ducting etc. The street cars have the ecus etc on that panel in the rear cabin too which increases the issue further for them, plus a lot of systems that you cannot remove. I always think the old cars look really nice when empty inside but the aesthetic doesnt carry over directly to the later cars.
It should be a lot of fun thats for sure. I let a friend borrow my ECU to run in his RSR while he was waiting on a replacement. Porsche reflashed it back to my software afterwards but didnt reset the user data. That was what max stored RPM was reading before I cleared it and cycle checked all the sensors etc with Modas.
Arcamalpha, thats a regular H pattern shifter box still. The sequential is great moving fast, not so much pottering about. The sequential is necessary in the 997, the car is turned up much much more and once you are over the learning curve it makes things much better as a driver. The 996 doesnt need it and it doesnt fit with the car from a driving perspective imho.
Terry, The one thing the aircooled cars have over the watercooled cars when stripping is the lack of cabin loom. It can look really tidy in the air cooled cars in a way it cannot in the watercooled versions. Even with the cup wiring looms and ecu (so easily half the wiring) its is much cleaner but still present in a way that cannot be disguised. The rear cabin is just criss crossed with ducting etc. The street cars have the ecus etc on that panel in the rear cabin too which increases the issue further for them, plus a lot of systems that you cannot remove. I always think the old cars look really nice when empty inside but the aesthetic doesnt carry over directly to the later cars.
I dont know what people want to know but since arcamalpha asked about the chassis setup I will type up a bit more on that.
The body shell has had quite a few changes done to it, some obvious some less so. Most are taken from changes applied on later 997 Cup cars or the RSR. Amongst other things it is now stronger and stiffer than the regular shell (in terms of flex and wear), infact it is stiffer as a bare shell (without cage) than a regular 6Cup with cage and engine/gearbox.
Its cage free at the moment until I settle on a final interior spec though I expect I will end up welding in half the cage from a 997 Cup. I dont want door bars (entry and exit is a royal pain) and the roof bar with both the 996 and 997 cage designs is too close to my head to feel comfortable without a helmet on.
I have street doors on (so locks and windows) and the Cup doors are boxed up. These arent safe for use without door bars/full cage which I dont want whilst I wanted locks and windows that work since I want to drive this around semi normally.
There are RSR carbon fiber mirrors fitted to the doors while the bonnet, rear bumper, rear deck lid, rear spoiler, rear gurney and wing endplates are all carbon fiber too.
Windows are all regular lexan Cup windows except the door windows (obviously) while the windscreen is from an RSR and heated element. Theres no heating in the car so this is a must for controlling fogging given my plans for use. In general the bodywork is just that of the the final 996 Cup revision (2005MY). Again theres some changes been made to this to update things or take advantage of being rule free. 2010 Cup type uprights being the most obvious one.
The rear suspension uses 996 RSR rear sub frames with custom made mountings (to improve the factory ones). 996 RSR lower 2 piece control arms (so solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints). ERP adjustable dog bones with solid joints, adjustable rear toe arms (again solid joints), stock 996 Cup rear wheel carriers, hubs, hardware etc, 2010 997 Cup brake ducts (with naca duct feed from the floor pan), Brembo floating rotors (proper brembo racing products, so the same stuff used at le mans etc) and stock 996 Cup rear callipers. The entire back end is locked down. All adjustment is done via threaded rods on controls arms rather than pinch bolts.
The front has a 996 Cup front subframe, 2010 997 Cup/RSR front 2 piece control arms (again solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints), stock 996 Cup uprights, hubs hardware etc and again Brembo racing floating rotors with stock 996 Cup callipers using Porsche Motorsport sprint pads. Regular 996 Cup brake ducts (upper and lower) and some improved cooling added to increase airflow. It also has an RSR steering rack and 2010 997 Cup electric power steering pump with custom made stainless steel braided hoses. The rack is about 20% quicker than a regular street rack.
The entire suspension is solid mounted as are the engine and gearbox to the chassis.
Wheels are stock 996 Cup BBS alloys, 9J and 11J x 18, Suspension is stock 2005 996 Cup sachs shocks but running a custom spring setup similar to that used at Sebring (bumpy). Main springs are 140N/mm and 180N/mm.
The interior is running a customised 996 Cup front cabin loom (to allow doors and windows to work plus to integrate more circuit control, i designed, drew and made the loom myself), the other looms are stock 2005 996 Cup. ECU is a stock 2005 996 Cup bosch motorsport ECU. The central control panel has more control as per the 997 Cup and was custom designed and manufactured for the car (i drew it on cad and had it made). Main display is the regular 2005 996 Cup dash (so mk1 996 style with a few features removed, km readings and no red line/ no GT3 logo) but the car is also using a digital dash/data logger. Regular 996 Cup clutch and brake pedal, 997 Cup throttle pedal. In cabin adjustable brake bias (car is running a 997 Cup brake setup with dual master cylinders, no ABS, no brake booster).
The body shell has had quite a few changes done to it, some obvious some less so. Most are taken from changes applied on later 997 Cup cars or the RSR. Amongst other things it is now stronger and stiffer than the regular shell (in terms of flex and wear), infact it is stiffer as a bare shell (without cage) than a regular 6Cup with cage and engine/gearbox.
Its cage free at the moment until I settle on a final interior spec though I expect I will end up welding in half the cage from a 997 Cup. I dont want door bars (entry and exit is a royal pain) and the roof bar with both the 996 and 997 cage designs is too close to my head to feel comfortable without a helmet on.
I have street doors on (so locks and windows) and the Cup doors are boxed up. These arent safe for use without door bars/full cage which I dont want whilst I wanted locks and windows that work since I want to drive this around semi normally.
There are RSR carbon fiber mirrors fitted to the doors while the bonnet, rear bumper, rear deck lid, rear spoiler, rear gurney and wing endplates are all carbon fiber too.
Windows are all regular lexan Cup windows except the door windows (obviously) while the windscreen is from an RSR and heated element. Theres no heating in the car so this is a must for controlling fogging given my plans for use. In general the bodywork is just that of the the final 996 Cup revision (2005MY). Again theres some changes been made to this to update things or take advantage of being rule free. 2010 Cup type uprights being the most obvious one.
The rear suspension uses 996 RSR rear sub frames with custom made mountings (to improve the factory ones). 996 RSR lower 2 piece control arms (so solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints). ERP adjustable dog bones with solid joints, adjustable rear toe arms (again solid joints), stock 996 Cup rear wheel carriers, hubs, hardware etc, 2010 997 Cup brake ducts (with naca duct feed from the floor pan), Brembo floating rotors (proper brembo racing products, so the same stuff used at le mans etc) and stock 996 Cup rear callipers. The entire back end is locked down. All adjustment is done via threaded rods on controls arms rather than pinch bolts.
The front has a 996 Cup front subframe, 2010 997 Cup/RSR front 2 piece control arms (again solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints), stock 996 Cup uprights, hubs hardware etc and again Brembo racing floating rotors with stock 996 Cup callipers using Porsche Motorsport sprint pads. Regular 996 Cup brake ducts (upper and lower) and some improved cooling added to increase airflow. It also has an RSR steering rack and 2010 997 Cup electric power steering pump with custom made stainless steel braided hoses. The rack is about 20% quicker than a regular street rack.
The entire suspension is solid mounted as are the engine and gearbox to the chassis.
Wheels are stock 996 Cup BBS alloys, 9J and 11J x 18, Suspension is stock 2005 996 Cup sachs shocks but running a custom spring setup similar to that used at Sebring (bumpy). Main springs are 140N/mm and 180N/mm.
The interior is running a customised 996 Cup front cabin loom (to allow doors and windows to work plus to integrate more circuit control, i designed, drew and made the loom myself), the other looms are stock 2005 996 Cup. ECU is a stock 2005 996 Cup bosch motorsport ECU. The central control panel has more control as per the 997 Cup and was custom designed and manufactured for the car (i drew it on cad and had it made). Main display is the regular 2005 996 Cup dash (so mk1 996 style with a few features removed, km readings and no red line/ no GT3 logo) but the car is also using a digital dash/data logger. Regular 996 Cup clutch and brake pedal, 997 Cup throttle pedal. In cabin adjustable brake bias (car is running a 997 Cup brake setup with dual master cylinders, no ABS, no brake booster).
Edited by fioran0 on Friday 27th December 21:29
This is a lovely project taking the best bits from the 996 and 997 Cup and RSR race cars. The electric steering and adjustable brake bias from the 997 are a must for the real driver. Brilliant call on these. Even more of a set up quandary as road rubber will want to lock up a lot earlier than slicks. How will you resist the temptation to run low front camber to compensate? Absolutely lovely project.
mollytherocker said:
Whats the reason for using a 2010 electrically assisted rack?
Its only the pump thats electric (instead of engine aux belt driven). Its still a hydraulic rack. Theres several benefits but I always think the main one is fire risk reduction. Theres no hydraulic lines running the length of the car and across the engine bay with the electric pump. Its mounted up front with a couple of short runs to the rack (i am using better quality lines on mine) and so removes all those headaches.
I much prefer the electric pump over the engine mounted unit on the grounds that its a compact installation, moves weight towards the front and can be swapped in and out without any hassles if need be. Its a much better engineering solution if you can live with it being in your boot space. It also sounds cool and gives you an extra switch to turn on before you can drive the car
The RSR rack is faster than the regular rack as I already mentioned. It also has a better feel I think (though they all feel good). Theres almost zero difference in steering effort with the pump running or not on the RSR one.
Steve Rance said:
This is a lovely project taking the best bits from the 996 and 997 Cup and RSR race cars. The electric steering and adjustable brake bias from the 997 are a must for the real driver. Brilliant call on these. Even more of a set up quandary as road rubber will want to lock up a lot earlier than slicks. How will you resist the temptation to run low front camber to compensate? Absolutely lovely project.
Thanks. No kidding on the brakes. My wheel carriers front and rear are actually studded for the 380mm/350mm brake setup and it was tempting to run the bigger brake callipers using these sizes for simple pron value BUT you are on the money regarding lock up. Its too much brake with those sizes (and a ton of extra weight too) especially when using road rubber and the lower down force levels on the 996 hence the reason I have stuck with the regular 350mm/330mm setup. Im running the grand-am master cylinder sizes (rather than the factory delivered masters on the regular 7Cup) so have a touch more pedal length (but still the same general wooden sensation). I like this setup on slicks and it should work better on road rubber but all of that side is a work in progress thats for sure. There may be some fine tuning come the spring!
I plan on setting camber to where it drives best and then learn to brake better..... or less if needed
arcamalpha said:
Love the fact that parts from different generations can work together so nicely.
Yeah, Steve will have more info on this perhaps (given his blue car etc) but thats really how it seems like it used to be with Porsche. You could pretty much move parts around any cars on the old 911s to make whatever you like. I guess thats what the urban outlaw stuff is about in a way too. You started with a certain car but it didnt have to stay that way if you wanted it to be different. What really set Porsche apart was that you didnt have to go out with the family to achieve it.Its incredible just how much of this still remains in the 996 and 997 models. Its still very much an evolution and the opportunity to make yourself a car just as you want is still there.
The trick of course is to know just what bits can move around, what else needs to follow for it to work and the reason for swapping in the first place. Im very fortunate having sat on the race side. Bits are always wearing out and everyone is always looking at how to make things better or if the new cars address anything. Its not always a part that seems exciting of course but there are always things to make the car better in some way.
Thanks, Glad its of interest to atleast some.
Graeme, I am supremely jealous of anyone running stripped out older cars. The interiors always look sublime when done right and you get so much lightness on top. Theres too much clutter in the later cars that cannot be done away with. Its my one grumble.
Do you still have a bare interior? What have you done about the floor covering? Ive provisionally made some rubber flooring ala the 911R. It looks ok but there something nice about an expanse of metal. My race cars always end up a pain with bare flooring with dirt and gravel etc and I have to assume its endlessly worse for something that is used on the road hence my rubber install. If you are still bare I'd really like to hear how you find it. Same for you Steve, you use yours on the road too right? Did you just fling in floor mats or are you both ballers and issue special footwear upon entry?
Parts life will be more or less as per a regular 996 GT3, though some bits of course will need checked on more frequently. Not using it racing stretches the time line out massively. Even race cars that are just club raced see their life extend by a serious measure by dropping down to this less stressful environment as I am sure you can imagine.
Terry, the base car was my old 2004 996 Cup. I had an off and the shell was toast. I started on the well trodden path of reshelling (or filling up the spares truck) when I decided that I'd just use the opportunity to change up to a 997 cup and build something interesting instead with the 996 Cup instead.
Graeme, I am supremely jealous of anyone running stripped out older cars. The interiors always look sublime when done right and you get so much lightness on top. Theres too much clutter in the later cars that cannot be done away with. Its my one grumble.
Do you still have a bare interior? What have you done about the floor covering? Ive provisionally made some rubber flooring ala the 911R. It looks ok but there something nice about an expanse of metal. My race cars always end up a pain with bare flooring with dirt and gravel etc and I have to assume its endlessly worse for something that is used on the road hence my rubber install. If you are still bare I'd really like to hear how you find it. Same for you Steve, you use yours on the road too right? Did you just fling in floor mats or are you both ballers and issue special footwear upon entry?
Parts life will be more or less as per a regular 996 GT3, though some bits of course will need checked on more frequently. Not using it racing stretches the time line out massively. Even race cars that are just club raced see their life extend by a serious measure by dropping down to this less stressful environment as I am sure you can imagine.
Terry, the base car was my old 2004 996 Cup. I had an off and the shell was toast. I started on the well trodden path of reshelling (or filling up the spares truck) when I decided that I'd just use the opportunity to change up to a 997 cup and build something interesting instead with the 996 Cup instead.
Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 29th December 03:07
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff