Porsche Stops Track Warranty for GT3
Discussion
It starts to smell bad for Porsche.
First stop sale, latter problems with camshafts and rocker arms, "improved" oiling system design for following F and G engines that numerous reports says changed nothing and now this!
This emerged on Rennlist where one member from EU was refused engine fix under warranty as it happened while taking part in track day event.
To add oil to fire it is turing out that Porsche removed track warranty from MY2015 onwards.
Check this out:
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/...
It starts at page 98.
Can you guys confirm what your warranty says about track days together with production year/first registration of your GT3?
First stop sale, latter problems with camshafts and rocker arms, "improved" oiling system design for following F and G engines that numerous reports says changed nothing and now this!
This emerged on Rennlist where one member from EU was refused engine fix under warranty as it happened while taking part in track day event.
To add oil to fire it is turing out that Porsche removed track warranty from MY2015 onwards.
Check this out:
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/...
It starts at page 98.
Can you guys confirm what your warranty says about track days together with production year/first registration of your GT3?
qbix said:
It starts to smell bad for Porsche.
First stop sale, latter problems with camshafts and rocker arms, "improved" oiling system design for following F and G engines that numerous reports says changed nothing and now this!
This emerged on Rennlist where one member from EU was refused engine fix under warranty as it happened while taking part in track day event.
To add oil to fire it is turing out that Porsche removed track warranty from MY2015 onwards.
Check this out:
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/...
It starts at page 98.
Can you guys confirm what your warranty says about track days together with production year/first registration of your GT3?
Wow! First stop sale, latter problems with camshafts and rocker arms, "improved" oiling system design for following F and G engines that numerous reports says changed nothing and now this!
This emerged on Rennlist where one member from EU was refused engine fix under warranty as it happened while taking part in track day event.
To add oil to fire it is turing out that Porsche removed track warranty from MY2015 onwards.
Check this out:
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/...
It starts at page 98.
Can you guys confirm what your warranty says about track days together with production year/first registration of your GT3?
Quote from rennlist.....
Chris3963 said:
Just picked my car up after the engine re-build and I am totally, absolutely, freakin' ropable.
I have just been told that PAG have not approved the work under warranty because I told them the CEL occurred on the race track and they want to bill me 30,000 euro!!! If it had have happened on the road, it would be ok. WTF!
I sat there stunned for a minute before telling them No Freakin' Way am I paying for this and peeled off the following:
- it's a design fault that is caused over time. It's purely coincidental that the CEL occurred on the track
- if it's not a design issue, why did they re-design the parts...I have photos to prove it
- why the f... does Porsche even build the GT3 if warranty doesn't cover track work
- I know of 2 the guys in Belgium who had there engines replaced so why single out me
- when I brought the car in the engineer told me it would be done under warranty
- I made 4 trips to the garage to check on progress and at no point did they tell me the work would not be done under warranty
- If I had have known, I may have taken a different path.
The service manager is a good guy who is supporting but he is fighting PAG. I told him that if this cannot be resolved, I will explore legal avenues, I will sell every Porsche I have, cancel my two orders and invest my money in other more trustworthy brands.
To say I am angry is an understatement. So all of you out there, if a CEL comes up on the track and you have to take the car to the garage, never tell the truth. Tell them it happened on the road, then you are maybe ok.
I have just been told that PAG have not approved the work under warranty because I told them the CEL occurred on the race track and they want to bill me 30,000 euro!!! If it had have happened on the road, it would be ok. WTF!
I sat there stunned for a minute before telling them No Freakin' Way am I paying for this and peeled off the following:
- it's a design fault that is caused over time. It's purely coincidental that the CEL occurred on the track
- if it's not a design issue, why did they re-design the parts...I have photos to prove it
- why the f... does Porsche even build the GT3 if warranty doesn't cover track work
- I know of 2 the guys in Belgium who had there engines replaced so why single out me
- when I brought the car in the engineer told me it would be done under warranty
- I made 4 trips to the garage to check on progress and at no point did they tell me the work would not be done under warranty
- If I had have known, I may have taken a different path.
The service manager is a good guy who is supporting but he is fighting PAG. I told him that if this cannot be resolved, I will explore legal avenues, I will sell every Porsche I have, cancel my two orders and invest my money in other more trustworthy brands.
To say I am angry is an understatement. So all of you out there, if a CEL comes up on the track and you have to take the car to the garage, never tell the truth. Tell them it happened on the road, then you are maybe ok.
supersport said:
Why, the warranty or lack of has nothing to do with the Club or any other track day provider?
You are much more likely to get a useful response from Porsche.
we pay the for Club and they hold track days, I am sure they have more weight than joe Smith phoning up off the street and getting flobbed offYou are much more likely to get a useful response from Porsche.
and the next guys to do it gets another answer and so it goes on.
I'll talk to the chairman and see if they can get a real answer from Porsche and put it in the club mag.
I'm sure they are covered for normal untimed/non-competitive track use, providing they are on standard tyres, unmodified, and regularly serviced.
Obviously over-revs will not be covered, but most track use wears consumables - brakes and tyres.
It is a testament to Porsche that they do cover track use, in the same way that you would expect Land Rover to cover their products if you took them off-road.
Obviously over-revs will not be covered, but most track use wears consumables - brakes and tyres.
It is a testament to Porsche that they do cover track use, in the same way that you would expect Land Rover to cover their products if you took them off-road.
king made to be used. No excuses.
The engine and gearbox were not designed to provide reliable long term track performance. If they were, they would be fitted to the Cup car and GT3 derivative. since the launch of the 991GT3 the race vesions continue to run with the M units.
As soon as it was obvious that a motorsport derivative had not been developed to be launched at the same time as the 991GT3, Porsche had a dilemma. With that knowledge - rightly or wrongly - I can understand why they cannot warranty the car for track use.
It is very rare for any road car to carry a track warranty, especially a big GT car. I was surprised when the early GT3's carried such a warranty. Sit next to a few novice track drivers and experience the abuse that these units endure and you would understand. We were spoiled with earlier GT3's because the drive trains were tried and tested race engineered units. The new units are not.
As soon as it was obvious that a motorsport derivative had not been developed to be launched at the same time as the 991GT3, Porsche had a dilemma. With that knowledge - rightly or wrongly - I can understand why they cannot warranty the car for track use.
It is very rare for any road car to carry a track warranty, especially a big GT car. I was surprised when the early GT3's carried such a warranty. Sit next to a few novice track drivers and experience the abuse that these units endure and you would understand. We were spoiled with earlier GT3's because the drive trains were tried and tested race engineered units. The new units are not.
Interesting post Mr Rance. I was not aware the cup cars are STILL using the Mezger but it makes sense as they are tried and tested.
As a side note, do you know what capacity these current cup Mezger engines are and what they are putting out power wise? Are they still 4.0 with around 500HP?
As a side note, do you know what capacity these current cup Mezger engines are and what they are putting out power wise? Are they still 4.0 with around 500HP?
Steve Rance said:
The engine and gearbox were not designed to provide reliable long term track performance. If they were, they would be fitted to the Cup car and GT3 derivative. since the launch of the 991GT3 the race vesions continue to run with the M units.
The GT3R car now runs the new 9A1 RS derivative engine though and that seems to have ben reliable so far this year in racing. Only the Cup car still runs the mezger 3.8 now, unsure if that will change for next year as I'd heard it might be changing to the gt3r engine...v8ksn said:
Interesting post Mr Rance. I was not aware the cup cars are STILL using the Mezger but it makes sense as they are tried and tested.
As a side note, do you know what capacity these current cup Mezger engines are and what they are putting out power wise? Are they still 4.0 with around 500HP?
Mezger with air restricts probably running at 450bhp to 500bhp depending on rules but can run 550bhp + in in 4.0 and 4.2 form As a side note, do you know what capacity these current cup Mezger engines are and what they are putting out power wise? Are they still 4.0 with around 500HP?
I have to say this is mildly amusing re current GT3. A track car with an auto box that the manufacturer is too scared to put a warranty on for track use
The rennlister should just report Porsche AG to the equivalent of the UK Financial Ombudsman in Europe a the warranty is a financial product. I did this when my turbo mezger imploded on autobahn at approaching 175mph and Porsche AG tried to hand me a £33,000 bill. I won as they wet themselves when the Financial Ombudsman collared them.
I understand Steves point but come on it has an auto gearbox how much damage can even the most ham fisted user do?
IMI A said:
Mezger with air restricts probably running at 450bhp to 500bhp depending on rules but can run 550bhp + in in 4.0 and 4.2 form
I have to say this is mildly amusing re current GT3. A track car with an auto box that the manufacturer is too scared to put a warranty on for track use
The rennlister should just report Porsche AG to the equivalent of the UK Financial Ombudsman in Europe a the warranty is a financial product. I did this when my turbo mezger imploded on autobahn at approaching 175mph and Porsche AG tried to hand me a £33,000 bill. I won as they wet themselves when the Financial Ombudsman collared them.
I understand Steves point but come on it has an auto gearbox how much damage can even the most ham fisted user do?
I do hope you are joking when your car exploded at 175 and Porsche didn't want to honour warranty??????I have to say this is mildly amusing re current GT3. A track car with an auto box that the manufacturer is too scared to put a warranty on for track use
The rennlister should just report Porsche AG to the equivalent of the UK Financial Ombudsman in Europe a the warranty is a financial product. I did this when my turbo mezger imploded on autobahn at approaching 175mph and Porsche AG tried to hand me a £33,000 bill. I won as they wet themselves when the Financial Ombudsman collared them.
I understand Steves point but come on it has an auto gearbox how much damage can even the most ham fisted user do?
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