sporttechnischer leitfaden
Discussion
As a hi to many that posted on an older thread (ade pointed me to it), I had some time tonight and thought i would offer atleast something in return and post some pics. And I hate posting pics.
Nothing too stunning in the photo dept, just some hipstamatic filtered phone dumps but maybe it will break up the monotony.
Its truly a shame that some of us dont live closer enabling the sharing of a local pub.
Some of you know ive been slowly building a little cheater hot rod. No rules restrictions for this one and its going on the road too. I want to get back to just firing something up and getting out there when I feel like it. I sense thats where everyone shifting back into aircooleds from 997s instead of going forward is coming from too, but thats just a guess. It might just be smelling of petrol though, if so i am covered just fine here too.
Its all from the porsche parts lists (just maybe not parts lists that most get to see) so its really in the spirit of what Porsche used to be about when they would embrace and encourage this behaviour. If you get what that was, or are just prone to nostalgia this car will probably tickle you. I know most wont get any of that but thats ok too. Its a watershed moment once again, just try to remember when you look back, a few of those being left behind might just be swimming in the other direction. We dont all need your pity.
Engine went into the car a couple of months ago but I have literally had zero time to follow it up with more work.
if you like looking at engines, hopefully this will give you an enjoyable few seconds away from the usual posts. If you are used to looking at these things you might get several seconds extra fun.
If you want me to tell you whats roughly going on with it let me know and I will share a little bit of info.
The box is a regular 2005 spec 6Cup piece. Freshly rebuilt but totally stock. Insides are a bit different from the street box, the diff is a monster and gear ratios are very different. Some of you might notice the oil supply is filtered and theres no plastic crap on the heat exchanger. Its solid mounted too. If you think those Cup cables give you in cabin noises, give this a whirl.
Ive also thrown in a couple of cabin snaps since i had them. Might give folks a smile if nothing else.
Nothing too stunning in the photo dept, just some hipstamatic filtered phone dumps but maybe it will break up the monotony.
Its truly a shame that some of us dont live closer enabling the sharing of a local pub.
Some of you know ive been slowly building a little cheater hot rod. No rules restrictions for this one and its going on the road too. I want to get back to just firing something up and getting out there when I feel like it. I sense thats where everyone shifting back into aircooleds from 997s instead of going forward is coming from too, but thats just a guess. It might just be smelling of petrol though, if so i am covered just fine here too.
Its all from the porsche parts lists (just maybe not parts lists that most get to see) so its really in the spirit of what Porsche used to be about when they would embrace and encourage this behaviour. If you get what that was, or are just prone to nostalgia this car will probably tickle you. I know most wont get any of that but thats ok too. Its a watershed moment once again, just try to remember when you look back, a few of those being left behind might just be swimming in the other direction. We dont all need your pity.
Engine went into the car a couple of months ago but I have literally had zero time to follow it up with more work.
if you like looking at engines, hopefully this will give you an enjoyable few seconds away from the usual posts. If you are used to looking at these things you might get several seconds extra fun.
If you want me to tell you whats roughly going on with it let me know and I will share a little bit of info.
The box is a regular 2005 spec 6Cup piece. Freshly rebuilt but totally stock. Insides are a bit different from the street box, the diff is a monster and gear ratios are very different. Some of you might notice the oil supply is filtered and theres no plastic crap on the heat exchanger. Its solid mounted too. If you think those Cup cables give you in cabin noises, give this a whirl.
Ive also thrown in a couple of cabin snaps since i had them. Might give folks a smile if nothing else.
Its 3.6, I like that engine for the 996 (and that engine in general) though its not a run of the mill 3.6 Cup engine thats for sure. Even the engine case is a bit special.
The car isnt built to run for any events. This is just my, screw it, I will build what I wish porsche would project and chance to build what I always felt would be a fantastic car. There was a time not so long ago when they would have given you a whole bunch of support to do this sort of thing. The will evaporated a while back (before I ever had a porsche) but the way was still there even with the 997. Now theres neither.
There was always so many ideas or improvements that were just crying to be brought onboard in almost every area of the car but regs limitations on the race cars mean you cant ever do anything. Free from those shackles meant I could just build the best (in my mind) damn car.
Im going to drive it on the road when i fancy a blast, take my kid out in it, hopefully do some trackdays with friends etc. The friends part being more important than the track part. Without people its just going round in circles. I sense a nice trip up the west coast as part of a convoy coming in my future too.
The only slightly odd thing just now is that its existed as a concept/idea/work in progress for so long that I am struggling to change its function back into an actual car now its moving under its own power again. Im sure the arrival of spring will help.
Ive not settled on a final decision for the interior side yet though. It has a 1967 911R vibe going on just now that I will suck and see once I get using it properly. Its a bit more homely than a regular Cup but not a lot more. I may find I need to dial in back a touch yet in that regard. Technical decisions are always easy, aesthetic ones much less so and interior is very much the latter. Its probably hovering right around 1100kg total weight at the moment though so thats adding to the leave it as it is feeling.
The car isnt built to run for any events. This is just my, screw it, I will build what I wish porsche would project and chance to build what I always felt would be a fantastic car. There was a time not so long ago when they would have given you a whole bunch of support to do this sort of thing. The will evaporated a while back (before I ever had a porsche) but the way was still there even with the 997. Now theres neither.
There was always so many ideas or improvements that were just crying to be brought onboard in almost every area of the car but regs limitations on the race cars mean you cant ever do anything. Free from those shackles meant I could just build the best (in my mind) damn car.
Im going to drive it on the road when i fancy a blast, take my kid out in it, hopefully do some trackdays with friends etc. The friends part being more important than the track part. Without people its just going round in circles. I sense a nice trip up the west coast as part of a convoy coming in my future too.
The only slightly odd thing just now is that its existed as a concept/idea/work in progress for so long that I am struggling to change its function back into an actual car now its moving under its own power again. Im sure the arrival of spring will help.
Ive not settled on a final decision for the interior side yet though. It has a 1967 911R vibe going on just now that I will suck and see once I get using it properly. Its a bit more homely than a regular Cup but not a lot more. I may find I need to dial in back a touch yet in that regard. Technical decisions are always easy, aesthetic ones much less so and interior is very much the latter. Its probably hovering right around 1100kg total weight at the moment though so thats adding to the leave it as it is feeling.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 23 December 02:44
Steve Rance said:
Dear Boy! Looks similar to the view I remember from a 996 cup but with Motec (?) dash and no doubt a great big hairy arsed engine! This chap looks like a lot of fun as does the setup conundrum! Does one take a little camber off the rear to help deploy the humongous torque that ( knowing you ) the engine has and risk oversteer city or do you go optimum and draw from the skill cabinet??
Thank you for posting Old Thing. You are in danger of making this forum interesting again. But prey tell, how will you possibly be able to drive such a vehicle whilst using your arms, legs, arse and your brain all at the same time??
Surely it is impossible???
hahaha, The secret to reaching equilibrium on the first paragraph is to be very much slower than you are Mr Rance. Then your compromises are all sorted by the natural order of things. Thank you for posting Old Thing. You are in danger of making this forum interesting again. But prey tell, how will you possibly be able to drive such a vehicle whilst using your arms, legs, arse and your brain all at the same time??
Surely it is impossible???
Thats actually a topical point raising though regarding setup, I have work to do there for sure.
Its currently over 4 deg neg camber front and back and looking at that and some PS2s one can see immediate problems right? Add on a total rubber free ride (the entire car, subframe, engine, gearbox, joints etc etc are solid mounted) and theres a need to get it corrected in short order.
Excitement overpowered common sense and I drove it round the estate (industrial, not country sadly) when it first ran. No setup at all and each wheel toeing in a different direction. Never again. Test runs are cancelled until at least a starting point is set so thats first point of order when I next pick up tools. Second is to remove the lock stops on the RSR steering rack. I left them on confidently after conducting some very scientific road situation avoidance tests (I drove round some trucks in a paddock) and passing with flying colours. Apparently they were less to scale than I first thought. I had to do a multi point turn just to get round some less than obscene corners. Horror inducing when you are wearing L plates, abject mortification when you are in a bewinged brute running a 110db exhaust with a 1500 rpm idle and belching smoke as the assembly lube burns off the engine. Subtle it was not.
LOL at the last part. No kidding huh. Did you notice the lack of vacuum line on the intake plenum? No booster and no ABS for me. And a real cable on the throttle pedal. My dash has GPS installed though along with a bunch of data logging so its not quite the stoneage express.
drmark said:
Now this is what PH is for 
BUT how many owners has it had? Did you get the DME checked before buying the engine? Have you had a low temp thermostat fitted? Your warranty will be void. And what about depreciation?
Merry Christmas
Dont worry, I have all that covered. I know the rules!!!!!BUT how many owners has it had? Did you get the DME checked before buying the engine? Have you had a low temp thermostat fitted? Your warranty will be void. And what about depreciation?
Merry Christmas
Max RPM stored in the ecu- 9370. Thats type 1 right? warrantable?
Low temp thermostat- bizarrely yes (go figure).
hmmm, things get less clear after that. I shall get my coat.
Merry Christmas to you too.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 23 December 02:46
DrMark,
It should be a lot of fun thats for sure. I let a friend borrow my ECU to run in his RSR while he was waiting on a replacement. Porsche reflashed it back to my software afterwards but didnt reset the user data. That was what max stored RPM was reading before I cleared it and cycle checked all the sensors etc with Modas.
Arcamalpha, thats a regular H pattern shifter box still. The sequential is great moving fast, not so much pottering about. The sequential is necessary in the 997, the car is turned up much much more and once you are over the learning curve it makes things much better as a driver. The 996 doesnt need it and it doesnt fit with the car from a driving perspective imho.
Terry, The one thing the aircooled cars have over the watercooled cars when stripping is the lack of cabin loom. It can look really tidy in the air cooled cars in a way it cannot in the watercooled versions. Even with the cup wiring looms and ecu (so easily half the wiring) its is much cleaner but still present in a way that cannot be disguised. The rear cabin is just criss crossed with ducting etc. The street cars have the ecus etc on that panel in the rear cabin too which increases the issue further for them, plus a lot of systems that you cannot remove. I always think the old cars look really nice when empty inside but the aesthetic doesnt carry over directly to the later cars.
It should be a lot of fun thats for sure. I let a friend borrow my ECU to run in his RSR while he was waiting on a replacement. Porsche reflashed it back to my software afterwards but didnt reset the user data. That was what max stored RPM was reading before I cleared it and cycle checked all the sensors etc with Modas.
Arcamalpha, thats a regular H pattern shifter box still. The sequential is great moving fast, not so much pottering about. The sequential is necessary in the 997, the car is turned up much much more and once you are over the learning curve it makes things much better as a driver. The 996 doesnt need it and it doesnt fit with the car from a driving perspective imho.
Terry, The one thing the aircooled cars have over the watercooled cars when stripping is the lack of cabin loom. It can look really tidy in the air cooled cars in a way it cannot in the watercooled versions. Even with the cup wiring looms and ecu (so easily half the wiring) its is much cleaner but still present in a way that cannot be disguised. The rear cabin is just criss crossed with ducting etc. The street cars have the ecus etc on that panel in the rear cabin too which increases the issue further for them, plus a lot of systems that you cannot remove. I always think the old cars look really nice when empty inside but the aesthetic doesnt carry over directly to the later cars.
I dont know what people want to know but since arcamalpha asked about the chassis setup I will type up a bit more on that.
The body shell has had quite a few changes done to it, some obvious some less so. Most are taken from changes applied on later 997 Cup cars or the RSR. Amongst other things it is now stronger and stiffer than the regular shell (in terms of flex and wear), infact it is stiffer as a bare shell (without cage) than a regular 6Cup with cage and engine/gearbox.
Its cage free at the moment until I settle on a final interior spec though I expect I will end up welding in half the cage from a 997 Cup. I dont want door bars (entry and exit is a royal pain) and the roof bar with both the 996 and 997 cage designs is too close to my head to feel comfortable without a helmet on.
I have street doors on (so locks and windows) and the Cup doors are boxed up. These arent safe for use without door bars/full cage which I dont want whilst I wanted locks and windows that work since I want to drive this around semi normally.
There are RSR carbon fiber mirrors fitted to the doors while the bonnet, rear bumper, rear deck lid, rear spoiler, rear gurney and wing endplates are all carbon fiber too.
Windows are all regular lexan Cup windows except the door windows (obviously) while the windscreen is from an RSR and heated element. Theres no heating in the car so this is a must for controlling fogging given my plans for use. In general the bodywork is just that of the the final 996 Cup revision (2005MY). Again theres some changes been made to this to update things or take advantage of being rule free. 2010 Cup type uprights being the most obvious one.
The rear suspension uses 996 RSR rear sub frames with custom made mountings (to improve the factory ones). 996 RSR lower 2 piece control arms (so solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints). ERP adjustable dog bones with solid joints, adjustable rear toe arms (again solid joints), stock 996 Cup rear wheel carriers, hubs, hardware etc, 2010 997 Cup brake ducts (with naca duct feed from the floor pan), Brembo floating rotors (proper brembo racing products, so the same stuff used at le mans etc) and stock 996 Cup rear callipers. The entire back end is locked down. All adjustment is done via threaded rods on controls arms rather than pinch bolts.
The front has a 996 Cup front subframe, 2010 997 Cup/RSR front 2 piece control arms (again solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints), stock 996 Cup uprights, hubs hardware etc and again Brembo racing floating rotors with stock 996 Cup callipers using Porsche Motorsport sprint pads. Regular 996 Cup brake ducts (upper and lower) and some improved cooling added to increase airflow. It also has an RSR steering rack and 2010 997 Cup electric power steering pump with custom made stainless steel braided hoses. The rack is about 20% quicker than a regular street rack.
The entire suspension is solid mounted as are the engine and gearbox to the chassis.
Wheels are stock 996 Cup BBS alloys, 9J and 11J x 18, Suspension is stock 2005 996 Cup sachs shocks but running a custom spring setup similar to that used at Sebring (bumpy). Main springs are 140N/mm and 180N/mm.
The interior is running a customised 996 Cup front cabin loom (to allow doors and windows to work plus to integrate more circuit control, i designed, drew and made the loom myself), the other looms are stock 2005 996 Cup. ECU is a stock 2005 996 Cup bosch motorsport ECU. The central control panel has more control as per the 997 Cup and was custom designed and manufactured for the car (i drew it on cad and had it made). Main display is the regular 2005 996 Cup dash (so mk1 996 style with a few features removed, km readings and no red line/ no GT3 logo) but the car is also using a digital dash/data logger. Regular 996 Cup clutch and brake pedal, 997 Cup throttle pedal. In cabin adjustable brake bias (car is running a 997 Cup brake setup with dual master cylinders, no ABS, no brake booster).
The body shell has had quite a few changes done to it, some obvious some less so. Most are taken from changes applied on later 997 Cup cars or the RSR. Amongst other things it is now stronger and stiffer than the regular shell (in terms of flex and wear), infact it is stiffer as a bare shell (without cage) than a regular 6Cup with cage and engine/gearbox.
Its cage free at the moment until I settle on a final interior spec though I expect I will end up welding in half the cage from a 997 Cup. I dont want door bars (entry and exit is a royal pain) and the roof bar with both the 996 and 997 cage designs is too close to my head to feel comfortable without a helmet on.
I have street doors on (so locks and windows) and the Cup doors are boxed up. These arent safe for use without door bars/full cage which I dont want whilst I wanted locks and windows that work since I want to drive this around semi normally.
There are RSR carbon fiber mirrors fitted to the doors while the bonnet, rear bumper, rear deck lid, rear spoiler, rear gurney and wing endplates are all carbon fiber too.
Windows are all regular lexan Cup windows except the door windows (obviously) while the windscreen is from an RSR and heated element. Theres no heating in the car so this is a must for controlling fogging given my plans for use. In general the bodywork is just that of the the final 996 Cup revision (2005MY). Again theres some changes been made to this to update things or take advantage of being rule free. 2010 Cup type uprights being the most obvious one.
The rear suspension uses 996 RSR rear sub frames with custom made mountings (to improve the factory ones). 996 RSR lower 2 piece control arms (so solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints). ERP adjustable dog bones with solid joints, adjustable rear toe arms (again solid joints), stock 996 Cup rear wheel carriers, hubs, hardware etc, 2010 997 Cup brake ducts (with naca duct feed from the floor pan), Brembo floating rotors (proper brembo racing products, so the same stuff used at le mans etc) and stock 996 Cup rear callipers. The entire back end is locked down. All adjustment is done via threaded rods on controls arms rather than pinch bolts.
The front has a 996 Cup front subframe, 2010 997 Cup/RSR front 2 piece control arms (again solid adjustable caster pucks and solid joints), stock 996 Cup uprights, hubs hardware etc and again Brembo racing floating rotors with stock 996 Cup callipers using Porsche Motorsport sprint pads. Regular 996 Cup brake ducts (upper and lower) and some improved cooling added to increase airflow. It also has an RSR steering rack and 2010 997 Cup electric power steering pump with custom made stainless steel braided hoses. The rack is about 20% quicker than a regular street rack.
The entire suspension is solid mounted as are the engine and gearbox to the chassis.
Wheels are stock 996 Cup BBS alloys, 9J and 11J x 18, Suspension is stock 2005 996 Cup sachs shocks but running a custom spring setup similar to that used at Sebring (bumpy). Main springs are 140N/mm and 180N/mm.
The interior is running a customised 996 Cup front cabin loom (to allow doors and windows to work plus to integrate more circuit control, i designed, drew and made the loom myself), the other looms are stock 2005 996 Cup. ECU is a stock 2005 996 Cup bosch motorsport ECU. The central control panel has more control as per the 997 Cup and was custom designed and manufactured for the car (i drew it on cad and had it made). Main display is the regular 2005 996 Cup dash (so mk1 996 style with a few features removed, km readings and no red line/ no GT3 logo) but the car is also using a digital dash/data logger. Regular 996 Cup clutch and brake pedal, 997 Cup throttle pedal. In cabin adjustable brake bias (car is running a 997 Cup brake setup with dual master cylinders, no ABS, no brake booster).
Edited by fioran0 on Friday 27th December 21:29
mollytherocker said:
Whats the reason for using a 2010 electrically assisted rack?
Its only the pump thats electric (instead of engine aux belt driven). Its still a hydraulic rack. Theres several benefits but I always think the main one is fire risk reduction. Theres no hydraulic lines running the length of the car and across the engine bay with the electric pump. Its mounted up front with a couple of short runs to the rack (i am using better quality lines on mine) and so removes all those headaches.
I much prefer the electric pump over the engine mounted unit on the grounds that its a compact installation, moves weight towards the front and can be swapped in and out without any hassles if need be. Its a much better engineering solution if you can live with it being in your boot space. It also sounds cool and gives you an extra switch to turn on before you can drive the car
The RSR rack is faster than the regular rack as I already mentioned. It also has a better feel I think (though they all feel good). Theres almost zero difference in steering effort with the pump running or not on the RSR one.
Steve Rance said:
This is a lovely project taking the best bits from the 996 and 997 Cup and RSR race cars. The electric steering and adjustable brake bias from the 997 are a must for the real driver. Brilliant call on these. Even more of a set up quandary as road rubber will want to lock up a lot earlier than slicks. How will you resist the temptation to run low front camber to compensate? Absolutely lovely project.
Thanks. No kidding on the brakes. My wheel carriers front and rear are actually studded for the 380mm/350mm brake setup and it was tempting to run the bigger brake callipers using these sizes for simple pron value BUT you are on the money regarding lock up. Its too much brake with those sizes (and a ton of extra weight too) especially when using road rubber and the lower down force levels on the 996 hence the reason I have stuck with the regular 350mm/330mm setup. Im running the grand-am master cylinder sizes (rather than the factory delivered masters on the regular 7Cup) so have a touch more pedal length (but still the same general wooden sensation). I like this setup on slicks and it should work better on road rubber but all of that side is a work in progress thats for sure. There may be some fine tuning come the spring!
I plan on setting camber to where it drives best and then learn to brake better..... or less if needed
arcamalpha said:
Love the fact that parts from different generations can work together so nicely.
Yeah, Steve will have more info on this perhaps (given his blue car etc) but thats really how it seems like it used to be with Porsche. You could pretty much move parts around any cars on the old 911s to make whatever you like. I guess thats what the urban outlaw stuff is about in a way too. You started with a certain car but it didnt have to stay that way if you wanted it to be different. What really set Porsche apart was that you didnt have to go out with the family to achieve it.Its incredible just how much of this still remains in the 996 and 997 models. Its still very much an evolution and the opportunity to make yourself a car just as you want is still there.
The trick of course is to know just what bits can move around, what else needs to follow for it to work and the reason for swapping in the first place. Im very fortunate having sat on the race side. Bits are always wearing out and everyone is always looking at how to make things better or if the new cars address anything. Its not always a part that seems exciting of course but there are always things to make the car better in some way.
Thanks, Glad its of interest to atleast some.
Graeme, I am supremely jealous of anyone running stripped out older cars. The interiors always look sublime when done right and you get so much lightness on top. Theres too much clutter in the later cars that cannot be done away with. Its my one grumble.
Do you still have a bare interior? What have you done about the floor covering? Ive provisionally made some rubber flooring ala the 911R. It looks ok but there something nice about an expanse of metal. My race cars always end up a pain with bare flooring with dirt and gravel etc and I have to assume its endlessly worse for something that is used on the road hence my rubber install. If you are still bare I'd really like to hear how you find it. Same for you Steve, you use yours on the road too right? Did you just fling in floor mats or are you both ballers and issue special footwear upon entry?
Parts life will be more or less as per a regular 996 GT3, though some bits of course will need checked on more frequently. Not using it racing stretches the time line out massively. Even race cars that are just club raced see their life extend by a serious measure by dropping down to this less stressful environment as I am sure you can imagine.
Terry, the base car was my old 2004 996 Cup. I had an off and the shell was toast. I started on the well trodden path of reshelling (or filling up the spares truck) when I decided that I'd just use the opportunity to change up to a 997 cup and build something interesting instead with the 996 Cup instead.
Graeme, I am supremely jealous of anyone running stripped out older cars. The interiors always look sublime when done right and you get so much lightness on top. Theres too much clutter in the later cars that cannot be done away with. Its my one grumble.
Do you still have a bare interior? What have you done about the floor covering? Ive provisionally made some rubber flooring ala the 911R. It looks ok but there something nice about an expanse of metal. My race cars always end up a pain with bare flooring with dirt and gravel etc and I have to assume its endlessly worse for something that is used on the road hence my rubber install. If you are still bare I'd really like to hear how you find it. Same for you Steve, you use yours on the road too right? Did you just fling in floor mats or are you both ballers and issue special footwear upon entry?
Parts life will be more or less as per a regular 996 GT3, though some bits of course will need checked on more frequently. Not using it racing stretches the time line out massively. Even race cars that are just club raced see their life extend by a serious measure by dropping down to this less stressful environment as I am sure you can imagine.
Terry, the base car was my old 2004 996 Cup. I had an off and the shell was toast. I started on the well trodden path of reshelling (or filling up the spares truck) when I decided that I'd just use the opportunity to change up to a 997 cup and build something interesting instead with the 996 Cup instead.
Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 29th December 03:07
Yes to the handbrake. The only way it will need registered as a "kit" is if I change my name to Michael Knight and it starts talking.
Why no wheel liners? Did you have to take them out to fit race rubber or did they just get chewed up and binned?
When you say solid bushes do you mean suspension? If so then I agree. Ive never had any problems in GT3s etc on the road with them. I dont find ride much changed at all if I am honest in terms of compliance, though the car feels a million miles better as a result of their install.
The solid gearbox mount is the main source of my cabin noise. It creates a direct sound bridge with the shell. Add in the Cup gearbox, flywheel and my clutch setup and the noise at idle is seriously loud. I have lexan windows (the 1/4s are vented too), zero sound deadening, a 110db supercup exhaust and an engine thats no shrinking violet. At idle, even with the doors open I literally cannot hear the exhaust or engine above the rattling transmitted inside. The shell is also significantly stiffer than a stock GT3 shell so amplifies a touch more as a result. On throttle and moving this noise recedes somewhat but theres still decent whine and clanking given theres literally zero give anywhere. Even the lightweight driveshafts add to the aural input. None of this is news of course, I will freely admit to quite liking it and its not like I havent been around it plenty but my helmet is usually on for long drives so muffles things. Earplugs are the solution of course but it would be nice to not need them.
Why no wheel liners? Did you have to take them out to fit race rubber or did they just get chewed up and binned?
When you say solid bushes do you mean suspension? If so then I agree. Ive never had any problems in GT3s etc on the road with them. I dont find ride much changed at all if I am honest in terms of compliance, though the car feels a million miles better as a result of their install.
The solid gearbox mount is the main source of my cabin noise. It creates a direct sound bridge with the shell. Add in the Cup gearbox, flywheel and my clutch setup and the noise at idle is seriously loud. I have lexan windows (the 1/4s are vented too), zero sound deadening, a 110db supercup exhaust and an engine thats no shrinking violet. At idle, even with the doors open I literally cannot hear the exhaust or engine above the rattling transmitted inside. The shell is also significantly stiffer than a stock GT3 shell so amplifies a touch more as a result. On throttle and moving this noise recedes somewhat but theres still decent whine and clanking given theres literally zero give anywhere. Even the lightweight driveshafts add to the aural input. None of this is news of course, I will freely admit to quite liking it and its not like I havent been around it plenty but my helmet is usually on for long drives so muffles things. Earplugs are the solution of course but it would be nice to not need them.
JarmoL said:
That's very interesting info, thanks! I was under impression that RSR's and even GT3's had same steering racks(ratios)
I have been thinking using the RSR's electric pump in (also) street driven GT3. I wonder how long the pump would last in a car that gets run say 6000 miles a year? That's lot more hours than any race car?
Does the pump make loud noise when it's running? I wouldn't think it can be heard when driving?
The 996 GT3 uses the exact same rack as the C2, boxster etc. Same with the 997 GT3. There are several options for the motorsport cars.I have been thinking using the RSR's electric pump in (also) street driven GT3. I wonder how long the pump would last in a car that gets run say 6000 miles a year? That's lot more hours than any race car?
Does the pump make loud noise when it's running? I wouldn't think it can be heard when driving?
The pump should be fine, theres electric pumps being used in an array of regular production every day cars (or were at least before the switch to cheaper electric motors) without a need for annual replacement. Porsche dont use the pumps on street cars though so its not a cheap upgrade. Its over £2000 for the pump, two hoses and a couple of adaptors if you buy new. You also need the engine and gearbox out to remove the old lines.
The pump can definitely be heard with it running and when driven. How intrusive will of course depend on how loud your car is and how much interior you have to muffle it out.
Thanks Graeme.
Looks super clean, as I said, supremely jealous
Thats interesting ref the bare floors. I have wooden floor boards down anyways but just figured it would get scratched up and messy in short order without something else in there. Even the race cars start to look tatty in a relatively short time. I will run with my rubber flooring since its down and gauge how messy it gets as a way to feel whether it can be removed without headaches.
I feel you on the centre console, its nice to have somewhere to stick things thats for sure. I couldnt run one if i wanted the shifter up on stilts so didnt have much option there. It can make things look a little more civilised by having it though.
Looks super clean, as I said, supremely jealous
Thats interesting ref the bare floors. I have wooden floor boards down anyways but just figured it would get scratched up and messy in short order without something else in there. Even the race cars start to look tatty in a relatively short time. I will run with my rubber flooring since its down and gauge how messy it gets as a way to feel whether it can be removed without headaches.
I feel you on the centre console, its nice to have somewhere to stick things thats for sure. I couldnt run one if i wanted the shifter up on stilts so didnt have much option there. It can make things look a little more civilised by having it though.
marky911 said:
Speaking of Cheeper van hire, where is Ade lately? Not seen him on here for a while.
Same place a whole bunch of others are. Off doing other things in the non virtual world and only occasionally checking in just to see if theres a chat going on that they feel like engaging with. Its a bit..... folks out in their underpants shouting at the wind in here. I assume the only appeal is the chance to chinwag with a few others one doesnt have the luxury of seeing in person regularly. Thats where I am atleast.If I lived closer to people I would just get them down the pub of an evening instead.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 30th December 02:12
Harris_I said:
That's right. Slicks kept rubbing the arches which also had to be rolled a little.
Yep, I mean suspension. I find it quite bearable on the road. I thought about solid mounts for gearbox etc but decided against going deaf in middle age.
BTW, 110dB!!! Looks like you won't be doing any track days then.
Thought so ref the rubbing. You can have wide rubber or low height on the street shells but not both unfortunately. LOL on the hearing, even those urethane gearbox mounts are proving a bit much for quite a few hardened track rats. Yep, I mean suspension. I find it quite bearable on the road. I thought about solid mounts for gearbox etc but decided against going deaf in middle age.
BTW, 110dB!!! Looks like you won't be doing any track days then.
Thats FIA 110db too, so thats drive by sound level measured at a sound station 50ft away on track side or whatever it was at that time, not static 110db measured 10ft from the back end of the car. Track days can suck it
(actually I have a 997 Cup system thats quieter that I can run for those things, or i will fit up some supertraps to the ends if I need to).
I had a good old chuckle on the door mirrors. They are great at close quarter (ie a car a foot away from your 1/4 panel) but less good when out in the open huh!!!
I have a rear view camera Im going to put in. Even a rear view mirror isnt much cop any more. Its useless with that rear wing though theres some vision now its at roof height rather than the lower stock 6Cup height. A little screen on the dash with a continuous feed from the rear is whats needed.
Edited by fioran0 on Friday 3rd January 17:03
Steve Rance said:
Neil
I have the original wooden floor plates. To be honest they are fine but best if you wear reasonably grippy footwear. I do skulk about on the road quite happily but the harnesses and race seats sometimes make exiting junctions a bit difficult. Like your car, mine has a solid mounted box so earplugs are also useful.
My biggest problem is set up as its cheaper to run the car on slicks at track days so thats the primary set up objective. This leads to a few lock up problems on the road. I did look at an adjustable bias set up - which I much prefer - but it the car wouldn't then be correct in spec. My half way measure solution was a motorsport ABS unit which works well on the road and circuit. With an adjustable bias, you can just run more rear for the road - effectively a wet brake bias set up. That should be fine. On the track, the car will be very good. Nice project.
Thanks Steve,I have the original wooden floor plates. To be honest they are fine but best if you wear reasonably grippy footwear. I do skulk about on the road quite happily but the harnesses and race seats sometimes make exiting junctions a bit difficult. Like your car, mine has a solid mounted box so earplugs are also useful.
My biggest problem is set up as its cheaper to run the car on slicks at track days so thats the primary set up objective. This leads to a few lock up problems on the road. I did look at an adjustable bias set up - which I much prefer - but it the car wouldn't then be correct in spec. My half way measure solution was a motorsport ABS unit which works well on the road and circuit. With an adjustable bias, you can just run more rear for the road - effectively a wet brake bias set up. That should be fine. On the track, the car will be very good. Nice project.
I have the wooden floor board in mine too (its under the rubber stuff at the moment). The floor isnt flat enough to have nothing there, plus it looks cool. Its fantastic that even today, a sheet of wood offers the best approach lol.
I have the 3 points left in there for the exact same reason you mention. It was bad enough in the Stradale and that was an A to A car. One sometimes went past B but you couldnt really stop there. 50% because of the attention the car got the moment it stood still, 50% because you were never convinced it would start again if you shut it off.
ABS was a problem for me given the range or rubber I need/want to use. There no street tyre in the right size to give me the huge rear profile I need. That cup slick is a 680 diameter. I can drop a bit of width and get a tall profile (for street sizes) but its still not close enough to the 680mm to not cause ABS headaches.
I would have had to be switch programmes every time I swapped from slick to street tyre and back again. That bosch M4 ABS is an awesome thing. Ive driven a few cars with it and it was tempting to use one on this too but even with it there was no getting around the above problem. It is only a case of firing up a computer and switching over but its still the sort of hassle I am trying to get away from.
Running the dual masters get me over this altogether. I can run any size rubber I feel like without any problems at all. Its also a really nice setup once you get used to it. On the track I actually like being able to lock the wheels if I want to (ie in a spin) so it was really only pluses for this particular application.
I will be setting up for road rubber just now. I will probably take some weight off the nose too for added stability since I can adjust bias. For track days I will just string the car up and add on camber and height at the rear before setting off if its going on slicks. I can run take off Cup rubber for track days which like your situation means that slicks for tracks makes the most financial sense (before even considering performance) but I will hopefully drive more on the road with this.
arcamalpha said:
What are super traps? I'm always looking for an effective bolt-on way to quieten down my car for track day static tests.
Its an exhaust extension full of plates that you bolt on to your tail pipe to reduce sound. WIth turn downs and a supertrap you can get about 7-8db reduction for a track side station, around 5db for a static. You can get more but you start hurting power, though that being said, a black flag removes 100% of your power right.It looks ugly but I can help get you on when you otherwise couldnt.
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