Cayman R - owners/buyers/mods
Discussion
fioran0 said:
PorscheGT4 said:
Not into data logging as I just do the odd track day for fun at 80% (4 a year), the more expensive the car the slower one gets ;-)
and to do real data logging you need a team to do tyre temps on hot laps and then the brakes over heat and you cannot get back out on track to cool them and sit In a que for 15 minutes while the cars blows all it's temps !
I'm not sure where your idea that you need a support crew taking tire temps with hot laps and the rest comes from. I cant think of one track day driver using logging that runs any differently to any other track day attendee. They just run round and round having fun but have the added bonus that the session for them doesn't stop when they go home.and to do real data logging you need a team to do tyre temps on hot laps and then the brakes over heat and you cannot get back out on track to cool them and sit In a que for 15 minutes while the cars blows all it's temps !
To use data effectively in this situation you load up the laps once you are home and look over the reality of how you drove in detail.
Having the data allows you to evaluate what you did well, what you didn't do well and best of all - assuming you have others willing to share - see how others got round in comparable cars. How were they braking, getting on gas, turning in etc etc.
Assessing yourself by looking at the data collected gives you goals that you can work on - incrementally - next time you are out as a means to improve yourself and what you are doing. Using it in this way means its not about chasing a time in the conventional sense, but simply about truthfully and effectively understanding what you are doing when you are on track and how you can improve. Times become secondary, serving only to guide how close you are getting to any benchmarks or references set.
This makes it a very self focused activity. You quickly learn that the real challenge is yourself, not the guy you heard talking smack. It doesn't matter how fast or slow you are relative to others in the end, it's just about you and what you are doing. It's incredibly beneficial as a tool for improvement but it is also fun. Once you get the bug, pouring over session data in the weeks after the track day becomes as much fun as the day driving was.
That being said, the reality of how awful ones driving is at first when you see it there in clear metrics can be a sobering and humbling experience.
It can also prove a pretty useful tool in thinking of mods to undertake going forward. It can often be easy to see from the data where changes could be most useful and see whether the expected improvements occurred post mod. Using the two together (driver and car) really opens doors to a whole world of addiction. Jack Olsen is a wonderful example of someone taking this approach and systematically working to inch forward step by step in an incredible way in terms of his skills and his car using data logging to focus his approach.
Anyways, there are enough Cayman folk on here it seems that it could be fun to get a group together running loggers and comparing sessions and track info, building a little community from those who like the odd track day and their cars.
Since I don't have one, it needs to be someone else to be the one to get that together though.
This was the first time we ever used it: http://juansolo.co.uk/motas/juno14.html
FWIW last time we did Spa I was 6 secs a lap faster. Mainly down to us being less stingy with the tyres, but also down to watching each other's vids and data and figuring out where we're faster/slower than each other. The part worn slicks we get have already done one endurance race so are past their best, now we use a set for a day and throw them away. They noticeably fall off by the end of the day and the car gets very wayward. Before we used to run them until the canvas was showing. Again, not chasing times so it's not like it matters, but it's hellishly faster on fresher rubber! Eau Rouge and Blanchimont are flat for us when the rubber is 'new', really not when it's later in the day.
Edited by juansolo on Thursday 9th April 09:51
PorscheGT4 said:
paper is great when new, they go off quite quick I find esp when Porsche only change them out at 20k, mine was blocked solid at 8k.
It's interesting to look at performance relative to dust accumulation in some of the tests relative to perceptions over paper and oiled filters in long term use. Not every independent test does it but the ones that do add some extra level of info to digest.
This plot above shows the amount of accumulated dust versus increase in flow restriction.
The three filters on the left - the ones that reach maximum restriction with between 200 and 250 gms total of dust accumulated - are all oiled filters. The worst is an oiled foam type, the other two are oiled cotton types.
What is interesting is that all the filters tested pretty much end up with the same level of restriction once they reach their dirty limit but the paper ones - in this test at least - can accumulate more dust before getting there.
The dust was flowed at a rate of 9.8 gms per minute in the above tests and in some sense therefore replicates extended use in a vehicle over time.
There are plenty of independent tests out there and freely available that one can read up on in order to inform any decision about what is right for them.
There are a couple where the system restriction without filter is measured and given as a baseline before changing out filters. This gives a greater sense of the relative change introduced with the filter types by isolating the effect of the filter itself. In one such test the difference between best and worst performing filter in terms of flow restriction was less than 0.1 PSI.
edit to fix image
Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 9th April 10:47
Really interesting topic!
Axel987, since you appear to be in in close contact with Ehrmann, would you mind asking if similar results can be had for a 987 Spyder (= Cayman S engine?) or if only the Cayman R responds so well to the modifications you have planned?
I'd be very interested in a 350-360 PS 3.4 Spyder!
I read that the Cayman R has a different ECU hardware so I am not sure.
Axel987, since you appear to be in in close contact with Ehrmann, would you mind asking if similar results can be had for a 987 Spyder (= Cayman S engine?) or if only the Cayman R responds so well to the modifications you have planned?
I'd be very interested in a 350-360 PS 3.4 Spyder!
I read that the Cayman R has a different ECU hardware so I am not sure.
fioran0 said:
PorscheGT4 said:
paper is great when new, they go off quite quick I find esp when Porsche only change them out at 20k, mine was blocked solid at 8k.
It's interesting to look at performance relative to dust accumulation in some of the tests relative to perceptions over paper and oiled filters in long term use. Not every independent test does it but the ones that do add some extra level of info to digest.
This plot above shows the amount of accumulated dust versus increase in flow restriction.
The three filters on the left - the ones that reach maximum restriction with between 200 and 250 gms total of dust accumulated - are all oiled filters. The worst is an oiled foam type, the other two are oiled cotton types.
What is interesting is that all the filters tested pretty much end up with the same level of restriction once they reach their dirty limit but the paper ones - in this test at least - can accumulate more dust before getting there.
The dust was flowed at a rate of 9.8 gms per minute in the above tests and in some sense therefore replicates extended use in a vehicle over time.
There are plenty of independent tests out there and freely available that one can read up on in order to inform any decision about what is right for them.
There are a couple where the system restriction without filter is measured and given as a baseline before changing out filters. This gives a greater sense of the relative change introduced with the filter types by isolating the effect of the filter itself. In one such test the difference between best and worst performing filter in terms of flow restriction was less than 0.1 PSI.
edit to fix image
Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 9th April 10:47
I have found out today Porsche Don't change the paper filter till 60k miles, they even don't change it on a 4 year major service, so I picked a new one up to day to fit tonight on my R
as I said mine was quite blocked at 8k and full of dirt on the Spyder.
The vflow is NOT a oiled filter, as we know oil attracts dust and oil+dust would block quicker than paper as per the graph.
The Vflow is a Synthamax DRY Filter Technology filter, so once it gets a bit dusty, a quick wash and pop it back in.
as always people can make a choice, but the test/graph above did not have a DRY Filter Technology filter on test.
Paper has always given great results but you have to throw them away, just depends how often you want to change it vs buying a Synthamax DRY Filter Technology filter which you can wash.
also because of the shape of the vFlow it has a 6” injection molded Venturi that acts as a vacuum for cold-air along with the oem ram air effect.
It all seems to work ok on mine and I am very happy with it, like wise I run a paper one on my R and have decided to swap it out 40k miles early :-)
as I said mine was quite blocked at 8k and full of dirt on the Spyder.
The vflow is NOT a oiled filter, as we know oil attracts dust and oil+dust would block quicker than paper as per the graph.
The Vflow is a Synthamax DRY Filter Technology filter, so once it gets a bit dusty, a quick wash and pop it back in.
as always people can make a choice, but the test/graph above did not have a DRY Filter Technology filter on test.
Paper has always given great results but you have to throw them away, just depends how often you want to change it vs buying a Synthamax DRY Filter Technology filter which you can wash.
also because of the shape of the vFlow it has a 6” injection molded Venturi that acts as a vacuum for cold-air along with the oem ram air effect.
It all seems to work ok on mine and I am very happy with it, like wise I run a paper one on my R and have decided to swap it out 40k miles early :-)
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Thursday 9th April 16:48
gbruckner said:
Really interesting topic!
Axel987, since you appear to be in in close contact with Ehrmann, would you mind asking if similar results can be had for a 987 Spyder (= Cayman S engine?) or if only the Cayman R responds so well to the modifications you have planned?
I'd be very interested in a 350-360 PS 3.4 Spyder!
I read that the Cayman R has a different ECU hardware so I am not sure.
it's all the same, Axel987, since you appear to be in in close contact with Ehrmann, would you mind asking if similar results can be had for a 987 Spyder (= Cayman S engine?) or if only the Cayman R responds so well to the modifications you have planned?
I'd be very interested in a 350-360 PS 3.4 Spyder!
I read that the Cayman R has a different ECU hardware so I am not sure.
Spyder circa 320bhp
R circa 330bhp
remapped R or SPyder circa 340bhp (seems pointless to just do a remap on a R imo but SPyder owners might want 20bhp more)
tuned R or Spyder with hi octain fuel and manafolds circa 355bhp but >300lbs ft torque :-)
Tuned R or SPyder with every thing, TB,plenum full exhaust system but this will need an expert custom RR tune, ie not a canned file, circa 370Bhp.
above but no Cats race system 380BHP.
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Thursday 9th April 17:05
Gives some idea of gains from mods from a well-respected tuning firm:
Map and filter 330ps to 345ps
Map, filter and rear silencer 350ps
Map, filter, manifolds and silencer 360ps
Map, filter, manifolds, silencer and intake plenum 365ps
http://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche/...
Map and filter 330ps to 345ps
Map, filter and rear silencer 350ps
Map, filter, manifolds and silencer 360ps
Map, filter, manifolds, silencer and intake plenum 365ps
http://www.cargraphicts.com/en/brands/for-porsche/...
fioran0 said:
PorscheGT4 said:
Not into data logging as I just do the odd track day for fun at 80% (4 a year), the more expensive the car the slower one gets ;-)
and to do real data logging you need a team to do tyre temps on hot laps and then the brakes over heat and you cannot get back out on track to cool them and sit In a que for 15 minutes while the cars blows all it's temps !
I'm not sure where your idea that you need a support crew taking tire temps with hot laps and the rest comes from. I cant think of one track day driver using logging that runs any differently to any other track day attendee. They just run round and round having fun but have the added bonus that the session for them doesn't stop when they go home.and to do real data logging you need a team to do tyre temps on hot laps and then the brakes over heat and you cannot get back out on track to cool them and sit In a que for 15 minutes while the cars blows all it's temps !
To use data effectively in this situation you load up the laps once you are home and look over the reality of how you drove in detail.
Having the data allows you to evaluate what you did well, what you didn't do well and best of all - assuming you have others willing to share - see how others got round in comparable cars. How were they braking, getting on gas, turning in etc etc.
Assessing yourself by looking at the data collected gives you goals that you can work on - incrementally - next time you are out as a means to improve yourself and what you are doing. Using it in this way means its not about chasing a time in the conventional sense, but simply about truthfully and effectively understanding what you are doing when you are on track and how you can improve. Times become secondary, serving only to guide how close you are getting to any benchmarks or references set.
This makes it a very self focused activity. You quickly learn that the real challenge is yourself, not the guy you heard talking smack. It doesn't matter how fast or slow you are relative to others in the end, it's just about you and what you are doing. It's incredibly beneficial as a tool for improvement but it is also fun. Once you get the bug, pouring over session data in the weeks after the track day becomes as much fun as the day driving was.
That being said, the reality of how awful ones driving is at first when you see it there in clear metrics can be a sobering and humbling experience.
It can also prove a pretty useful tool in thinking of mods to undertake going forward. It can often be easy to see from the data where changes could be most useful and see whether the expected improvements occurred post mod. Using the two together (driver and car) really opens doors to a whole world of addiction. Jack Olsen is a wonderful example of someone taking this approach and systematically working to inch forward step by step in an incredible way in terms of his skills and his car using data logging to focus his approach.
Anyways, there are enough Cayman folk on here it seems that it could be fun to get a group together running loggers and comparing sessions and track info, building a little community from those who like the odd track day and their cars.
Since I don't have one, it needs to be someone else to be the one to get that together though.
Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 9th April 04:38
Here iin New Zealand our track days are run under rules prohibiting passing under braking. Effectively no racing. To settle a question over who was faster we bought a 1994 Honda Integra between 15 of us, put an AIM Solo in and ran a Top Gear type leader board. The data gained from overlaying different drivers in the car was eye-opening and improved most people's technique. Power and suspension were taken out of the equation. I use the same technology in my 964 and R on the track.
John McM said:
Here iin New Zealand our track days are run under rules prohibiting passing under braking. Effectively no racing. To settle a question over who was faster we bought a 1994 Honda Integra between 15 of us, put an AIM Solo in and ran a Top Gear type leader board. The data gained from overlaying different drivers in the car was eye-opening and improved most people's technique. Power and suspension were taken out of the equation. I use the same technology in my 964 and R on the track.
What appears a useful feature of the aim solo dl is that if you connect to the cayman via can (if you are brave enough to cut the odd wire) you can see lots of additional 'real' data (as opposed to connecting via obd) and data that can't be accessed from the dash. So beyond using it for lap times etc you can also see things like oil temp, coolant temp (the real temp not the fiction coming from the dash display), oil pressure and lots more so if you wanted to know how long it actually takes to warm the engine oil and things like that you should be able to retrieve it. gbruckner said:
Really interesting topic!
Axel987, since you appear to be in in close contact with Ehrmann, would you mind asking if similar results can be had for a 987 Spyder (= Cayman S engine?) or if only the Cayman R responds so well to the modifications you have planned?
I'd be very interested in a 350-360 PS 3.4 Spyder!
I read that the Cayman R has a different ECU hardware so I am not sure.
The ECU will be custom anyway, and the engine is 100% identical. Im wondering if the Spyder has the 55m vs 48mm manifold though on the regular S?Axel987, since you appear to be in in close contact with Ehrmann, would you mind asking if similar results can be had for a 987 Spyder (= Cayman S engine?) or if only the Cayman R responds so well to the modifications you have planned?
I'd be very interested in a 350-360 PS 3.4 Spyder!
I read that the Cayman R has a different ECU hardware so I am not sure.
Either way, go full 2.5 inch Manthey manifolds + exhaust anyway, so doesnt matter.
350-360 bhp is a piece of piss, 370 is there for the taking according to Jens.
Yesterday I spend a couple of hours on a track with a Porsche instructor from the driving experience at Silverstone. Best mod I've done to a car ever was improving me! And seeing how much I learned in just a few hours I can't wait to get some more tuition=, now. 
Sorry for slightly off-topic there.
Sorry for slightly off-topic there.Axel987 said:
The ECU will be custom anyway, and the engine is 100% identical. Im wondering if the Spyder has the 55m vs 48mm manifold though on the regular S?
Either way, go full 2.5 inch Manthey manifolds + exhaust anyway, so doesnt matter.
350-360 bhp is a piece of piss, 370 is there for the taking according to Jens.
All manifolds are the same size on S , R and Spyder, the R has a 55mm rear exhaust section that's it.Either way, go full 2.5 inch Manthey manifolds + exhaust anyway, so doesnt matter.
350-360 bhp is a piece of piss, 370 is there for the taking according to Jens.
Axel987 said:
no need with sport chrono package 
Axel do you know that for sure, I have the chrono settings on my cayman S and the booster is a huge improvement and there are countless owners on planet 9 who say the same. I don't own an R but I think you might want to ask an owner who has actually tried and then dismissed it.Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff