Cayman R - owners/buyers/mods

[J-P]

PR36 said:

J-P said:

fridaypassion said:

Any R owners in West Yorkshire?

Happy to do a back to back/swap in mine against an R on my test route. I'm interested to see what the difference is I would wager it aint a lot in the grand scheme.

We are on the interwebz and a particularly fierce corner of it. People will defend their own choice of car thats human nature. I'm happy to give a totally unbiased opinion after a ride on an R. I'm fortunate to have stuff in the business that kicks the arse of any S/R whatever Cayman on road and track so I have high standards in ride and handling dealing with the Lotus stuff which is the pinnacle of whats possible with windows and a roof. The Honda K20 powered Elise I sold to fund the Cayman would tear an Cayman R a new bum hole in any situation other than long journey comfort!

Me personally not really fussed if the R is better I'm happy to report that the premium is worth it but if it isnt you'll get to find out. As I reported from my initial drive I have a test route I use for test drives and benchmarking of all kinds of different cars. I was expecting nothing more than average from the Cayman S and it proved to be pretty darn good. This is with the active suspension in normal mode. The sport mode is simply overdamped for road use but the regular mode is very compliant for a car of this weight. The steering is excellent, its reasonably fast. Its completely different to a Boxster which I've had before and its better in almost every way other than noise than the Z4M coupe which is a very solid benchmark for the Cayman.

Would love to do this but I'm based in Surrey. However, I would say that any view on whether a car is worth its premium over another is pretty futile. It is currently worth more in the market, end of. Is that fair, right, justified? Yes to some (clearly) and no to others. You want a case for a £10k premium in favour of a CR over a CS? The buckets alone would cost you £7k to buy for an S, aluminium doors? Probably another £2k at least, Spyder alloys? (£1200 each), diff? Another £1500 etc. So yes can be justified in pure cost terms.

You want a case against? None of these things make an enormous difference to the car. It's subtly better and if you were to spend £10k in mods on an S you could get a much nicer driver's car.

My view an S will never be an R and you'd have to be mad to turn an S into an actual R, much cheaper to just buy an R or mod an S and enjoy it in the knowledge that it'll outperform a std R.

Or lets look at that 10k parts list another way, if you are not bothered about bling. Firstly the diff on the CR is basically a cosmetic item (not my words but those of the resident technical guru on here) so we don't need to cover that. So to the weight savings - Recaro buckets 1k, composite hatch 1k, lightweight battery £500, radio/amp delete £100 and bingo for not a lot of effort you lose 50kg for just over 2.5k on a stock S. The only thing missing then on our stock s is the 'base model' (removing the word crap so as not to offend) bilstein CR dampers, CR ARB which is inferior to an aftermarket one (and i repeat for Mrd's benefit the difference in thickness to a stock S is negligible), oh and 10bhp! All of the parts i listed can be taken off at resale and sold to habitual modders like me. So for not a lot of cash i get 99pct of a CR.

In the words of CH, tell me I'm wrong!

Er....no... If you read my post I think you'll find we're agreeing. To be clear the market isn't stupid, the premium for an R can be justified, as I evidenced above.. The cost of Porsche parts are reassuringly expensive (not everybody wants to mod a car to get what they want). Secondly, I also made the point that you could mod an S and end up with a better driver's car (lightweight doors are expensive though, and I note you missed off this in your mods).

So it makes perfect sense to buy an R and it makes perfect sense to mod an S. It doesn't make sense to turn an S into an R, if the R's bling, (as you call it) is what you actually want.

[J-P]

John McM said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

True but the first two words are Owners/Buyers. As an R owner I want to hear from actual R owners who drive their cars and have modded them so I can learn from their experiences. What I'm seeing is non R owners pitching views/opinions.

I have done the mod route on a 964 and seen how after market suspension improved handling but that car was manufactured 25 years ago. I specifically bought an R because I wanted the benefit of Porsche researched and designed suspension for the particular use I have for the car. No doubt there were economic limitations in that choice. I'd love to know what they are from someone who has been there done that. The observation that I could have taken a cheaper car and modded it to end up with the same result doesn't hold water for me as I know that it would be money spent and not recovered at sale time. As I wrote in an earlier post it's better to just buy the Porsche designed car you want than try and turn a car into something it isn't.

Hi John. I'm going down the mod route with mine. I think the std overall package is very, very good. The weakest point in the package for me are the brakes. Retardation is fine but could be improved, the Brembo package is probably the way forward but is £5k. The feel and consistency under track conditions has been massively improved with GT3MC, braided hose, Castrol SRF, after market pads and GT3 brake ducts. Next for me is full aftermarket exhaust system, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body. Then I'll probably go for full RSS upgrades to improve suspension feel and add some camber, it's a bit cheaper than doing the dampers with camberplates and the stock set-up is good anyway. Still some thinking for me to do here though!

[fridaypassion]

J-P said:

Base spec R has all the stuff I described. You had to spec the less exotic stuff like, chairs and heavier alloys.

Well some lucky Porsche manager specced my car not me but understand the point. Base spec R vs base spec S you'd probably go for the R.

On the subject of LSDs if you aint using your LSD you might as well have just bought an S because you are not accessing the performance if your R! Driving with the PSM on as well no doubt! Pah!

[Beanoir]

PR36 said:

Or lets look at that 10k parts list another way, if you are not bothered about bling. Firstly the diff on the CR is basically a cosmetic item (not my words but those of the resident technical guru on here) so we don't need to cover that. So to the weight savings - Recaro buckets 1k, composite hatch 1k, lightweight battery £500, radio/amp delete £100 and bingo for not a lot of effort you lose 50kg for just over 2.5k on a stock S. The only thing missing then on our stock s is the 'base model' (removing the word crap so as not to offend) bilstein CR dampers, CR ARB which is inferior to an aftermarket one (and i repeat for Mrd's benefit the difference in thickness to a stock S is negligible), oh and 10bhp! All of the parts i listed can be taken off at resale and sold to habitual modders like me. So for not a lot of cash i get 99pct of a CR.

In the words of CH, tell me I'm wrong!

You're wrong, you'd end up with chavved up Cayman S that's fit for bragging on MX5 Nutz, before long you'd be singing about 'stance'

To spec the genuine items from an R and not Halfords would be a stretch more than 2.5k

[J-P]

fridaypassion said:

J-P said:

Base spec R has all the stuff I described. You had to spec the less exotic stuff like, chairs and heavier alloys.

Well some lucky Porsche manager specced my car not me but understand the point. Base spec R vs base spec S you'd probably go for the R.

On the subject of LSDs if you aint using your LSD you might as well have just bought an S because you are not accessing the performance if your R! Driving with the PSM on as well no doubt! Pah!

Don't worry - my R gets used properly and is well cared-for too!

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No you seem to be wilfully missing the point. So, for clarity. The std dampers are not crappy, which is what you said originally. There are just better after market options.

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No - the weakest link is the brakes. The passive dampers are fine. They are not crappy. The shocks in a Daewoo are crappy, but the Porsche ones are more than adequate, so crappy is an inaccurate and unfair description.

[PorscheGT4]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

the brakes are no where near fine I can tell you owning both a car with bigger brakes and standard brakes and doing a Porsche track day with guys who rave on with , SRF, ti shims trick pads, GT3 MC etc etc the brakes are still not good enough with all that crap and money down the toilet, the cars under braked, that's a fact.

the dampers is a tricky one as I love the ride of the R, I am not bias as I buy and sell 55+ cars and could not give a st about a brand or type of car, I buy a Gt3 I say what I think while I own it, I sell it, same with Lotus , BMW etc etc. I DO say it how it is, I harp on how good the R is because it is that good and I don't want to sell it.

The R is the best car I have owned, yes you can make an R better but I would not think pss9 or KW would be good enough to improve on how the R is, many guys in the USA buy and Fit the R set up and love it, all R owners are amazed how good the R is once they have lived wit the car for a while, but guys who do a test drive never seem to gel with it.

yes it needs a geo, yes it needs brakes unless you have PCCB and other little mods, but out the box it's a stonking bit of under rated kit.

I HAVE done ALL THE BITS TO MY Spyder which comes TO £8K worth of bits, and I still think it rides great on the dampers it has.

again yes it could be better with a £5k set up but how much better ?

the thing now is we have a GT4 so I don't plan to spend £20k on a R when I have aGT4 coming, and £8k on the Spyder is me done on that car also.

I 'll keep all 3 and say what I think about the GT4 when it arrives, no holes bared I can assure you.

Not many cars just work I find out the box, the R is just a dam good car out the box with a geo and some nice pads that's a rare thing imo.

Edited by PorscheGT4 on Wednesday 24th June 23:20

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This is a pointless argument but there is no element of the CR (dampers or otherwise) which is crappy. Crappy means stty and the CR does not have a single element of it that I would describe as st! Could some stuff be better? Sure, there's always room for improvement but crap as std? No way! And I can't see why you'd want to argue that point.

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not at all, it's not the fact that you hold this opinion that I have trouble with. I just find it bizarre that somebody who claims to love how a car handles would buy a car that they thought had st dampers (not adequate, not fine, not OK, but actually st) but it takes all sorts.

[PorscheGT4]

I spent a load of cash on after market full spec Ohlins for my Lotus as I thought it needed them, and not even the basic Lotus ones, some top spec ones.
was a great thing to do for my Exige.

I just don't drive my R and think, "you know what, this car needs a full set of custom dampers"

If any thing the R setup is what makes the car so much better than the S in the 1st place, it's a risky move to buy a cheap set of KW (as they will not re valve them for you)
and get every thing 100% right with the spring rates and damper valving. After a few people buying KW and them all being too hard, screw that, way to risky.

so for road use, it's a great thing, if it were a track car then yes I would be going JRZ , no one else seem to know as much as them on the Cayman platform it seems.

[PorscheGT4]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

when you see the guys track Spyder's here and in the USA most(99%) have oem dampers, most hussle GT3's on track, dampers are not a weak point of the car, even though they may be cheap.

brakes def are and so is the lack of camber adjustment, I would fix those 2 things 1st then see if one is happy at that level.

All I did at my last track day was get stuck behind so called track cars ! Dampers are def not it's weak point. but I guess you could say the GT3 was on st dampers also lol

[John McM]

J-P said:

Hi John. I'm going down the mod route with mine. I think the std overall package is very, very good. The weakest point in the package for me are the brakes. Retardation is fine but could be improved, the Brembo package is probably the way forward but is £5k. The feel and consistency under track conditions has been massively improved with GT3MC, braided hose, Castrol SRF, after market pads and GT3 brake ducts. Next for me is full aftermarket exhaust system, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body. Then I'll probably go for full RSS upgrades to improve suspension feel and add some camber, it's a bit cheaper than doing the dampers with camberplates and the stock set-up is good anyway. Still some thinking for me to do here though!

SRF is already done. Pads are the next thing I'm looking at. Currently I have OEM Textar. I run PFC08 on the 964, which have been great at the track and on the road. The other thing I need to look at is brake rotors, as I have small cracks radiating from the holes.

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There is nothing bizarre about wanting to fit good dampers. There is something bizarre about buying a car where you think the dampers are st if how a car handles matters to you. And if virtually all cars don't come with good dampers and the ones in a Cayman are better than most but not and good as after market, then describing the Cayman dampers as st is unfair. Worse than after market? Fine! st? No! Doesn't Bilstein make the Cayman damper? Not a company known for producing st dampers either.

Let me put it another way. What is it about the std Cayman damper that makes it st in your view?

[J-P]

John McM said:

J-P said:

Hi John. I'm going down the mod route with mine. I think the std overall package is very, very good. The weakest point in the package for me are the brakes. Retardation is fine but could be improved, the Brembo package is probably the way forward but is £5k. The feel and consistency under track conditions has been massively improved with GT3MC, braided hose, Castrol SRF, after market pads and GT3 brake ducts. Next for me is full aftermarket exhaust system, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body. Then I'll probably go for full RSS upgrades to improve suspension feel and add some camber, it's a bit cheaper than doing the dampers with camberplates and the stock set-up is good anyway. Still some thinking for me to do here though!

SRF is already done. Pads are the next thing I'm looking at. Currently I have OEM Textar. I run PFC08 on the 964, which have been great at the track and on the road. The other thing I need to look at is brake rotors, as I have small cracks radiating from the holes.

For the brake rotors, I would go down the Brembo route. From what I can tell, it's the best system and massively improves braking performance - feel should remain consistent but the GT3 master cylinder does mean that you get better feel and a good, stable platform for H&T even under very hard braking. That was my experience anyway.

[PaulD86]

Blimey, well I've just read all the last few pages and it seems to be getting a bit silly. The thread I thought was for owners/buyers/mods - so with this in mind can all who have changed the suspension on their Cayman R please offer their feedback on what improvements (or not) they got? Page after page of speculative argument (which, no matter how strong your theories or beliefs are, is all this has become until you put your money where your mouth is) is a bit tedious. I have a Cayman R which I will not be modding as I am electing to run it with the Porsche warranty. I am however interested in modding cars and have done on past cars I've owned (brakes, suspension, cosmetic bits and bobs etc) and it would be nice if this thread was about that sort of thing rather than speculation. Earlier we had the brake debate which was getting a little old but at least featured people who had actually modded their brakes!

So anyone with a Cayman R ever modded their suspension?

[Dan911]

PaulD86 said:

Blimey, well I've just read all the last few pages and it seems to be getting a bit silly. The thread I thought was for owners/buyers/mods.

+1

Back on topic(s)

Any buyers out there looking at the moment?

[Beanoir]

PaulD86 said:

Blimey, well I've just read all the last few pages and it seems to be getting a bit silly. The thread I thought was for owners/buyers/mods - so with this in mind can all who have changed the suspension on their Cayman R please offer their feedback on what improvements (or not) they got? Page after page of speculative argument (which, no matter how strong your theories or beliefs are, is all this has become until you put your money where your mouth is) is a bit tedious. I have a Cayman R which I will not be modding as I am electing to run it with the Porsche warranty. I am however interested in modding cars and have done on past cars I've owned (brakes, suspension, cosmetic bits and bobs etc) and it would be nice if this thread was about that sort of thing rather than speculation. Earlier we had the brake debate which was getting a little old but at least featured people who had actually modded their brakes!

So anyone with a Cayman R ever modded their suspension?

Agreed.

It's customary to show us your R here, let's see her!

Adding front wheels spacers and a bit more front camber has been a mod undertaken by some (me included), I wonder if Porsche view this as a breach of the terms of the warranty even if you were using Porsche supplied wheel spacers...

[Webdunk]

Dan911 said:

Has anyone upgraded the exhaust tips?

I've been looking at that recently. The finish on the PSE tips is looking mighty tacky already at only 22k miles. Dream2 seems to have an aesthetic I like but in common with most of the tips on the market they are hovering around the £300 mark which seems excessive. Next stop will be looking for an alternative from a local business to see how that prices out.

[Sarnie]

Dan911 said:

+1

Back on topic(s)

Any buyers out there looking at the moment?

You looking to sell??