458 values now that the 488GTB is here - only way is down!?
Discussion
keith jecks said:
I know I am going to get shot down for this, but what the hell. Am I the only one who thinks these cars would be more fun with much less power? My F430 is far too fast to be able to give it a good thrashing on the road, and on a circuit doesn't compare to my Caterham. I think it would actually be more fun with a 2.5 litre V8 with c. 280 BHP that you could give a good blatting on the road.
Im guessing you are 75+ and retired with failing vision? 
Bo_apex said:
_Leg_ said:
What's the f*cking point of more and more bhp?
Anyone who drives quicker than you can in a 315bhp 981 Boxster S on the road wants locking up.
Bear in mind I own a 458 Spider and a 997.2 GT3RS when I say this but this cold war on bhp and handling that the manufacturers have going on is just cock waving. It's the most pointless game of top trumps ever.
Super cars aren't "better" because they have more power, handle better or are faster. If that were the case then we wouldn't all dream about owning this below! I certainly wouldn't say that a 488 or 650s is a better super car than this. Would you?
But, back on topic, who cares what happens to values. Just drive the f*cking things.
^^^Anyone who drives quicker than you can in a 315bhp 981 Boxster S on the road wants locking up.
Bear in mind I own a 458 Spider and a 997.2 GT3RS when I say this but this cold war on bhp and handling that the manufacturers have going on is just cock waving. It's the most pointless game of top trumps ever.
Super cars aren't "better" because they have more power, handle better or are faster. If that were the case then we wouldn't all dream about owning this below! I certainly wouldn't say that a 488 or 650s is a better super car than this. Would you?
But, back on topic, who cares what happens to values. Just drive the f*cking things.
this
prices being equal, I'd take a 250 GTO over a 488 any day. Can use the thing on public roads at (almost) full chat.
People expect Ferraris to be fast. Being embarassed by "normal" cars doesn't strike me as something that would make the brand continue to earn respect. Obviously on a day to day basis you can disregard people trying to prove a point by racing up to you, or whatever, but it should be possible for you to show a dramatic change of pace - it's a supercar after all. The brand and the cars need to be thought of as being special when they are driven, or seen by others.
The classic Ferraris (including F355) are excluded from this I think, because they're just beautiful in isolation even when they aren't moving. The "normal" Ferraris though, the ones you're likely to see on the road, should be "remarkably quick".
I don't really buy the whole "too much power" argument. For starters it is objectively better to have more power on tap available to you, even if you aren't driving at full open throttle all of the time (who does?). So long as there aren't compromises in having this power, e.g. tricky clutches or uncomfortable rides, noises, terrible/impractical fuel economy or whatever - then more is always better I think.
The classic Ferraris (including F355) are excluded from this I think, because they're just beautiful in isolation even when they aren't moving. The "normal" Ferraris though, the ones you're likely to see on the road, should be "remarkably quick".
I don't really buy the whole "too much power" argument. For starters it is objectively better to have more power on tap available to you, even if you aren't driving at full open throttle all of the time (who does?). So long as there aren't compromises in having this power, e.g. tricky clutches or uncomfortable rides, noises, terrible/impractical fuel economy or whatever - then more is always better I think.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 23 March 13:51
Think McLaren need to stop worrying about Ferrari and start looking at Lamborghini , if we're talking perfomance.
Full review here http://youtu.be/FL6pJEwjGWw
Full review here http://youtu.be/FL6pJEwjGWw
keith jecks said:
I know I am going to get shot down for this, but what the hell. Am I the only one who thinks these cars would be more fun with much less power? My F430 is far too fast to be able to give it a good thrashing on the road, and on a circuit doesn't compare to my Caterham. I think it would actually be more fun with a 2.5 litre V8 with c. 280 BHP that you could give a good blatting on the road.
I remember when 300+ mid-engined bhp meant a full-fat supercar. Today it means a Boxster. 300 bhp is enough to attain silly speeds on any road in England. With 600 bhp one needs roads that don't exist here: wide and sweeping, devoid of traffic and undulations, where one can reasonably run to 180 mph on the straighter bits and tip toe through the corners at ooh say 130 mph. Absent such roads the throttle gets closed too early.XBOW said:
Think McLaren need to stop worrying about Ferrari and start looking at Lamborghini , if we're talking perfomance.
Full review here http://youtu.be/FL6pJEwjGWw
All I will say is tyres !Full review here http://youtu.be/FL6pJEwjGWw
boxerTen said:
I remember when 300+ mid-engined bhp meant a full-fat supercar. Today it means a Boxster. 300 bhp is enough to attain silly speeds on any road in England. With 600 bhp one needs roads that don't exist here: wide and sweeping, devoid of traffic and undulations, where one can reasonably run to 180 mph on the straighter bits and tip toe through the corners at ooh say 130 mph. Absent such roads the throttle gets closed too early.
You are correct. Unless the UK government starts building such roads, 600 bhp is academic. Unless that is, you really want to kiss some armco, or are taking it to a suitable circuit.Bo_apex said:
boxerTen said:
I remember when 300+ mid-engined bhp meant a full-fat supercar. Today it means a Boxster. 300 bhp is enough to attain silly speeds on any road in England. With 600 bhp one needs roads that don't exist here: wide and sweeping, devoid of traffic and undulations, where one can reasonably run to 180 mph on the straighter bits and tip toe through the corners at ooh say 130 mph. Absent such roads the throttle gets closed too early.
You are correct. Unless the UK government starts building such roads, 600 bhp is academic. Unless that is, you really want to kiss some armco, or are taking it to a suitable circuit.Also having now driven the car for a while, I really miss having a screaming engine, these turbo cars are only really interesting for the power/torque they make and are not particularly entertaining to drive at low speeds (purely from an engine characteristic point of view).
As a result I think 458 values will remain strong in the long terms as they can also be fun at low(er) speeds. Not convinced the same will apply to the 488 or any other new (and smooth) turbo-engined car.
AmoCS said:
Interestingly on AT, there are more 458's (100) for sale than 328/348/355/360/f430 (99) put together!
Have 458 sales stalled?
Definitely more people buying 650s and that's having an impact. Fewer cars for sale and with the exception of the odd high spec sticker they are moving in weeks not years. Priced too cheaply IMHO compared to 458Have 458 sales stalled?
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