360 buying tips,advice
Discussion
)So, after countless manual Imprezas, A few M cars and a couple of 911s, I wanted a Ferrari. I tried a manual 355, which I found a little disappointing. Not so much the drive but the interior quality of what was a 13 year old, effectively hand built car. As a modern classic this car has appeal in spades and I remember loving the look when they were new.
I nearly pulled the trigger but thought I should look at the comparatively unloved (at least by journalists) 360. I drove an F1Spider and absolutely loved it. I bought the car and have never been without a Ferrari since.
Wow! It was brilliant. I absolutely loved the F1 change, despite years of wonderful heel and toe action in other manual cars. The F1 change totally suits the character of a Ferrari V8 of more modern vintage. These cars are powerful, alive, sharp, precise...all the things others have said. The F1 change is not less engaging, it is a new and interesting automotive experience. If you like to feel the car talking to you as weight and inertia loads up and moves around in corners, having both hands on the wheel and being able to select gears with rifle-crack efficiency (and noises) then F1 is just wonderful. I do still have a manual Subaru in the garage but I'm glad these F1 Ferraris exist and that I chose one.
So, the 360. Careful about assuming maintenance costs are Porsche-like - they are not. The run-of-the-mill maintenance stuff is a bit more expensive but it's the other stuff that, if you want to own the car properly, can bite a bit. Not everyone experiences the same (some are no doubt lucky) but also, there are owners out there who run cars on a budget and I would personally avoid those. You need to see quite a list of previous maintenance invoices for what will be a 10-14 year old car.
For instance, suspension components and ball joints are basically consumable items and need regular replacement. Door pins go (and are not funny when it happens). I had at least three or four abnormal items each year I had the car and every year it needed a decent alignment. I didn't worry though, the reward was every weekend and fully worth it.
As for the car itself, I had a standard exhaust and it was a great sound. I put Capristo manifolds on the 430 that followed it and I have had sport exhausts on my other cars but didn't feel the need on the 360. That said, I have a CS currently and that is the best sounding car I have ever owned, by far.
I didn't find the handling too unapproachable, at least on the road with TC on. In fact it was a precise and rewarding car. On my CS I did a bit of research, especially on FChat, and have altered the standard geometry with significant benefits. A small example of the thinking behind this is that Ferrari altered rear toe with the 430 to improve on the limit handling. The 430 uses the same tub and is a very similar car to the 360, and a car where journalists and owners reported more neutral on limit handling. I think this could well have been down to rear toe settings, at least partly, and my CS (with, among other things, 430 rear toe settings) now handles beautifully (there was more to it than that but you get the point). Still, I had no complaints at all with the 360.
The engine was worth the entry price alone and no Porsche short of a Carrera GT can compete with it in my view. What a thing! It certainly is the heart and soul of the car. However, the precision in cornering and braking is an integral part too. Clarkson once said that Ferraris just move over the road in a different way to other cars, I know what he means. You'll feel it in a 360 too. They have a kind of intimacy that is not just about steering feel (where a 911 is probably better) but is about the marriage of all the things that make up the way you 'feel' a car and how it wants you to engage with it - steering feel, chassis feel, noise, weight movement, balance, tiny floor and seat vibrations, body control etc... It's a kind of poetry.
I moved eventually to a 430. In every way (almost) this car was better, although I don't remember it any more fondly and both cars gave that fabulous Ferrari hit. Since then I have had a California, again brilliant, but perhaps in a slightly different way. In some ways I preferred it, mainly because I still had the mid engined CS in my garage and the Cali gave me a more usable Ferrari alternative. (Even at today's prices the CS won't be leaving me any time soon, I hope).
I also now have a 12C Spider which is a recent addition and equally fabulous in its own way.
As my first Ferrari though, the 360 was a belter and got me hooked on Exotic cars in general and Ferraris in particular. If you 're anything like me you'll be quite a bit poorer of wallet but happy about the choice you made.
I nearly pulled the trigger but thought I should look at the comparatively unloved (at least by journalists) 360. I drove an F1Spider and absolutely loved it. I bought the car and have never been without a Ferrari since.
Wow! It was brilliant. I absolutely loved the F1 change, despite years of wonderful heel and toe action in other manual cars. The F1 change totally suits the character of a Ferrari V8 of more modern vintage. These cars are powerful, alive, sharp, precise...all the things others have said. The F1 change is not less engaging, it is a new and interesting automotive experience. If you like to feel the car talking to you as weight and inertia loads up and moves around in corners, having both hands on the wheel and being able to select gears with rifle-crack efficiency (and noises) then F1 is just wonderful. I do still have a manual Subaru in the garage but I'm glad these F1 Ferraris exist and that I chose one.
So, the 360. Careful about assuming maintenance costs are Porsche-like - they are not. The run-of-the-mill maintenance stuff is a bit more expensive but it's the other stuff that, if you want to own the car properly, can bite a bit. Not everyone experiences the same (some are no doubt lucky) but also, there are owners out there who run cars on a budget and I would personally avoid those. You need to see quite a list of previous maintenance invoices for what will be a 10-14 year old car.
For instance, suspension components and ball joints are basically consumable items and need regular replacement. Door pins go (and are not funny when it happens). I had at least three or four abnormal items each year I had the car and every year it needed a decent alignment. I didn't worry though, the reward was every weekend and fully worth it.
As for the car itself, I had a standard exhaust and it was a great sound. I put Capristo manifolds on the 430 that followed it and I have had sport exhausts on my other cars but didn't feel the need on the 360. That said, I have a CS currently and that is the best sounding car I have ever owned, by far.
I didn't find the handling too unapproachable, at least on the road with TC on. In fact it was a precise and rewarding car. On my CS I did a bit of research, especially on FChat, and have altered the standard geometry with significant benefits. A small example of the thinking behind this is that Ferrari altered rear toe with the 430 to improve on the limit handling. The 430 uses the same tub and is a very similar car to the 360, and a car where journalists and owners reported more neutral on limit handling. I think this could well have been down to rear toe settings, at least partly, and my CS (with, among other things, 430 rear toe settings) now handles beautifully (there was more to it than that but you get the point). Still, I had no complaints at all with the 360.
The engine was worth the entry price alone and no Porsche short of a Carrera GT can compete with it in my view. What a thing! It certainly is the heart and soul of the car. However, the precision in cornering and braking is an integral part too. Clarkson once said that Ferraris just move over the road in a different way to other cars, I know what he means. You'll feel it in a 360 too. They have a kind of intimacy that is not just about steering feel (where a 911 is probably better) but is about the marriage of all the things that make up the way you 'feel' a car and how it wants you to engage with it - steering feel, chassis feel, noise, weight movement, balance, tiny floor and seat vibrations, body control etc... It's a kind of poetry.
I moved eventually to a 430. In every way (almost) this car was better, although I don't remember it any more fondly and both cars gave that fabulous Ferrari hit. Since then I have had a California, again brilliant, but perhaps in a slightly different way. In some ways I preferred it, mainly because I still had the mid engined CS in my garage and the Cali gave me a more usable Ferrari alternative. (Even at today's prices the CS won't be leaving me any time soon, I hope).
I also now have a 12C Spider which is a recent addition and equally fabulous in its own way.
As my first Ferrari though, the 360 was a belter and got me hooked on Exotic cars in general and Ferraris in particular. If you 're anything like me you'll be quite a bit poorer of wallet but happy about the choice you made.
'They have a kind of intimacy that is not just about steering feel (where a 911 is probably better) but is about the marriage of all the things that make up the way you 'feel' a car and how it wants you to engage with it - steering feel, chassis feel, noise, weight movement, balance, tiny floor and seat vibrations, body control etc... It's a kind of poetry'
Spot on
Spot on
thanks again for all the replies and insight into these cars! the next step is to try and drive a couple!
my next question is, can i expect to test drive a couple of these from dealers/independents? or is getting a drive in one more difficult than expected. i have had mixed reactions in the past walking into posh car dealerships and asking about cars the salesperson thinks i probably cant afford.
the other one i usually get is to agree a deal before driving a car?? which to me feels like a complete waste of time, as i may not be interested in buying that car after driving it.
i want to drive one first of all, to confirm weather its a car i want to buy, i may drive one and decide i much prefer the 911?
im 27, and so on the slightly younger side of the usual ferrari buyer?
one thing that does wind me up is not being taken seriously because i am younger and not wearing the appropriate watch/shoes/attire lol. i have walked into certain places before in my dirty work clothes and received a very warm welcome and even offered a test drive in a brand new m3, and then other times been dressed smartly and totally ignored or spoken to rudely. i dont feel the need to dress up like im going to a job interview just to go and look at cars!
my next question is, can i expect to test drive a couple of these from dealers/independents? or is getting a drive in one more difficult than expected. i have had mixed reactions in the past walking into posh car dealerships and asking about cars the salesperson thinks i probably cant afford.
the other one i usually get is to agree a deal before driving a car?? which to me feels like a complete waste of time, as i may not be interested in buying that car after driving it.
i want to drive one first of all, to confirm weather its a car i want to buy, i may drive one and decide i much prefer the 911?
im 27, and so on the slightly younger side of the usual ferrari buyer?
one thing that does wind me up is not being taken seriously because i am younger and not wearing the appropriate watch/shoes/attire lol. i have walked into certain places before in my dirty work clothes and received a very warm welcome and even offered a test drive in a brand new m3, and then other times been dressed smartly and totally ignored or spoken to rudely. i dont feel the need to dress up like im going to a job interview just to go and look at cars!
nickson said:
thanks again for all the replies and insight into these cars! the next step is to try and drive a couple!
my next question is, can i expect to test drive a couple of these from dealers/independents? or is getting a drive in one more difficult than expected. i have had mixed reactions in the past walking into posh car dealerships and asking about cars the salesperson thinks i probably cant afford.
the other one i usually get is to agree a deal before driving a car?? which to me feels like a complete waste of time, as i may not be interested in buying that car after driving it.
i want to drive one first of all, to confirm weather its a car i want to buy, i may drive one and decide i much prefer the 911?
im 27, and so on the slightly younger side of the usual ferrari buyer?
one thing that does wind me up is not being taken seriously because i am younger and not wearing the appropriate watch/shoes/attire lol. i have walked into certain places before in my dirty work clothes and received a very warm welcome and even offered a test drive in a brand new m3, and then other times been dressed smartly and totally ignored or spoken to rudely. i dont feel the need to dress up like im going to a job interview just to go and look at cars!
I'm with you there... I'm also 27 and looking for a 360 at some point soonish. Never driven one though, just a passenger ride.my next question is, can i expect to test drive a couple of these from dealers/independents? or is getting a drive in one more difficult than expected. i have had mixed reactions in the past walking into posh car dealerships and asking about cars the salesperson thinks i probably cant afford.
the other one i usually get is to agree a deal before driving a car?? which to me feels like a complete waste of time, as i may not be interested in buying that car after driving it.
i want to drive one first of all, to confirm weather its a car i want to buy, i may drive one and decide i much prefer the 911?
im 27, and so on the slightly younger side of the usual ferrari buyer?
one thing that does wind me up is not being taken seriously because i am younger and not wearing the appropriate watch/shoes/attire lol. i have walked into certain places before in my dirty work clothes and received a very warm welcome and even offered a test drive in a brand new m3, and then other times been dressed smartly and totally ignored or spoken to rudely. i dont feel the need to dress up like im going to a job interview just to go and look at cars!
Not sure if I will just be able to go and test drive one... I imagine I would have to be ready to sign first. It's made me think about hiring one or trying one on a track first
Age shouldn't come into it but plenty of other things will.
The main problem will be getting a test drive without showing serious intent to purchase. Fair enough as otherwise the dealers would be inundated with test pilots.
Particularly if the cars are SOR, it is not unusual that the seller would not allow a test drive unless a deposit is paid upfront. I know many dealers operate like this and if they had mine I'd ask for the same. You should get a run in the car, but not a drive unless you have built a good relationship with the dealer.
Ps LukeyLikey......great post.
The main problem will be getting a test drive without showing serious intent to purchase. Fair enough as otherwise the dealers would be inundated with test pilots.
Particularly if the cars are SOR, it is not unusual that the seller would not allow a test drive unless a deposit is paid upfront. I know many dealers operate like this and if they had mine I'd ask for the same. You should get a run in the car, but not a drive unless you have built a good relationship with the dealer.
Ps LukeyLikey......great post.
Edited by mike01606 on Sunday 26th January 20:53
Edited by mike01606 on Sunday 26th January 21:19
Mate, I'd just ring/email around the usual suspect indies that have been mentioned on here and be honest with them about your test drive worries. Hell, half of them read PH anyway so they're prob half expecting a call from you. When I bought my 355 from Rardley 4 years ago aged 28 it was fine. Called well beforehand, asked about the possibility of a drive and I don't recall it being an issue. I actually drove 2 of their cars, a rosso/cream spider which I passed on and a Blu le mans/cream spider which I didn't 
The latter was on SOR an maybe the former was too, I don't recall. Also drove jdw1234's old giallo/Nero spider when I was looking as I was initially trying to buy that
550 I bought without driving a single one and actually bought the first one I saw as it was a) in impeccable condition and my perfect spec, and b) I've never heard or read anyone say that a 550 has been anything other than an epic drive
The latter was on SOR an maybe the former was too, I don't recall. Also drove jdw1234's old giallo/Nero spider when I was looking as I was initially trying to buy that550 I bought without driving a single one and actually bought the first one I saw as it was a) in impeccable condition and my perfect spec, and b) I've never heard or read anyone say that a 550 has been anything other than an epic drive
Edited by Mario149 on Monday 27th January 01:30
TISPKJ said:
Sorry I meant your thoughts as an ex owner of both 360 and 430 on cost to change etc.
Not your other post.
Ahh, sorry, got a bit confused! Anyhow, my advice on a 360 v 430 would be that if you can afford the upgrade it's worth it, mainly because you are getting a different experience and widening your experience of all things supercar/Ferrari. It sounds a stupid point but isn't.Not your other post.
People who buy supercars do it because they want to experience what life and the world has to offer. Sometimes people want to demonstrate their wealth and show off, but many don't want that, they just love the cars. So, having owned a 360 and 430 I'm glad I did both - I now know and love both cars, and have great memories driving each.
If you can't realistically afford the upgrade then you aren't losing anything (other than the added experience as mentioned above) by sticking with a 360, despite the fact that a 430 is better in nearly every way (except, looks and noise - both subjective). This sounds a bit contradictory, until you remember that a 348 does not make a 328 irrelevant, neither a 308 Dino over a 246 Dino. The newer cars were certainly more advanced and better in some senses but that isn't always the point.
So, to a large degree it's about affordability. If you can, the price to change (is it about £25k still?) is worth it. If not, don't bother, a 360 and no debt is better than a 430 and an overdraft (easy for me to say and I haven't always abided by that rule if I'm honest!)
If you want a more specific answer, £25k buys you...
Better build. It's quite hard to really define this, yes, the 430 does feel more solid somehow but if I hadn't heard others say this I might not have noticed.
More power. It's a faster car but not more exciting and although you can measure power you can't put a metric on excitement so overall, the feeling of speed in the 360 is similar on the road. A track is different.
More torque. Perhaps the biggest difference. You can feel it everywhere and although you can keep the 360 spinning (and what a pleasure that is...) the extra torque makes the 430 much more driveable. It covers your mistakes better.
Handling on limit. The 430 is easier on the limit but it is small margins here. You can also change geometry on a 360 to make it respond the same. The 430 is not any sharper but you do get the feeling you're pretty invincible - it will become a good friend!
E-Diff. The 430's big new piece of tech. Works well in my view. Again, it allows you to take liberties in corners, particularly allowing you to get on the power quickly which is fun. Maybe for a track, since none of us are Alonso, that is less 'pure' but on roads, where no-one can be perfect on every corner of every road, the E-Diff is brilliant.
F1 shift. Better in every way and does make a difference to your driving. The gap in torque as you change gears is much less apparent and so you have to plan for it less than in a 360.
One piece of advice I would have benefitted from is the seat. I had a carbon seat on my 360 and a standard seat on the 430. The standard seat is set quite a bit higher, which was never perfect for me.
One other thing I did was to replace the manifolds with Capristo ones with heatshields. About the best £4k you can spend on a 430. I didn't really like the 430 sound - a bit too synthesized for me, with bassy tones lower in the register then a noticeable change as the ECU manages the valves etc. Didn't feel right to me. The Capristo manifolds changed that big time and added loads more torque everywhere. It transformed the car and was very worth doing. I sold the car to my local main dealer for a good price so they weren't bothered about the Capristo parts. They sold it on in 2 weeks.
Edited by LukeyLikey on Tuesday 28th January 08:55
TISPKJ said:
None in particular but as always a case of "for a little bit more money you could have one of these" scenario.
So true, I find it quite interesting as this time next year I may be looking to move on from the 550. Top of the list at the mo would be a Gallardo Spyder, with a 599 in close second place which will probably be about £10k cheaper in 12 months time than they are now. Funnily enough I don't really have a hankering for an F430 (at least at the moment) which is in about the same price rangeGassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff