458 values now that the 488GTB is here - only way is down!?
Discussion
GRBF430F1 said:
Seconded. And its down the line when the brand has grown that those slow on the up take now realise how good the original low volume production cars like 12C and 650S actually are.
Anyway getting back to the subject - you could do a lot worse than buying a £170k 458 spider but expect to lose £10k pa as per most new(ish) supercars in this category
.......sounds again like you're trying to convince yourself of future residual strengthAnyway getting back to the subject - you could do a lot worse than buying a £170k 458 spider but expect to lose £10k pa as per most new(ish) supercars in this category
tuscaneer said:
.......sounds again like you're trying to convince yourself of future residual strength
I don't blame GBR430 for trying to talk up the 650s - after all, he has put his money where his mouth is. What he is underestimating, is that residuals tend to follow a trend, and as he wasn't around when the 12C was launched, and doesn't quite have the experience that some of the rest of us have with this model. Make no mistake, the 650s will follow the same depreciation curve of the 12C. The line "...this time will be different..blah...blah" i have heard before - only last year (2013) when the £220k 12C Spider was in full swing. All the problems of the 12c Coupe had now been sorted and for extra desirability, it was now a convertible.....How much now? £150k and dropping. History has a habit of repeating itself.I 
AndrewD said:
I think you're making my point for me. Ferrari have nothing to "catch up". It is the other way round. I wish McL every good luck doing this, because I am sick to my back teeth with Ferrari's attitude. But to say Ferrari are catching up with McL is silly. When I last looked, the are in business to sell cars, and they are doing a rather better job of that, for many reasons of course, than McL.
To be fair all your points are correct except one, I personally think the current 650 is a perfectly viable option to the 458/488 tuscaneer said:
.......sounds again like you're trying to convince yourself of future residual strength
As I have said numerous times now the value of the 650s Spider is totally irrelevant to me as its a long term keeper.No other supercar offers such a breadth of abilities in a single car. Its the total package and real deal if you want 1 car
TBH I have more interest in the Performante and Scuderia going up in value as both of those will be sold on when the price is right. Both great cars in their own way but also more 1 dimensional than the 650S.
Anyway they have already more than paid for any furure depreciation on the 650S.
My only comments of residual relate to the 458 which I don't own but believe will be strong which is what I genuinely think regardless of it benefitting me or not
GRBF430F1 said:
tuscaneer said:
.......sounds again like you're trying to convince yourself of future residual strength
As I have said numerous times now the value of the 650s Spider is totally irrelevant to me as its a long term keeper.No other supercar offers such a breadth of abilities in a single car. Its the total package and real deal if you want 1 car
TBH I have more interest in the Performante and Scuderia going up in value as both of those will be sold on when the price is right. Both great cars in their own way but also more 1 dimensional than the 650S.
Anyway they have already more than paid for any furure depreciation on the 650S.
My only comments of residual relate to the 458 which I don't own but believe will be strong which is what I genuinely think regardless of it benefitting me or not
I mean, the almost amusing level of sincerity and intensity applied here, if it were applied elsewhere in your life, just think of the potential results ?
Just sayin
What's the f*cking point of more and more bhp?
Anyone who drives quicker than you can in a 315bhp 981 Boxster S on the road wants locking up.
Bear in mind I own a 458 Spider and a 997.2 GT3RS when I say this but this cold war on bhp and handling that the manufacturers have going on is just cock waving. It's the most pointless game of top trumps ever.
Super cars aren't "better" because they have more power, handle better or are faster. If that were the case then we wouldn't all dream about owning this below! I certainly wouldn't say that a 488 or 650s is a better super car than this. Would you?
But, back on topic, who cares what happens to values. Just drive the f*cking things.
Anyone who drives quicker than you can in a 315bhp 981 Boxster S on the road wants locking up.
Bear in mind I own a 458 Spider and a 997.2 GT3RS when I say this but this cold war on bhp and handling that the manufacturers have going on is just cock waving. It's the most pointless game of top trumps ever.
Super cars aren't "better" because they have more power, handle better or are faster. If that were the case then we wouldn't all dream about owning this below! I certainly wouldn't say that a 488 or 650s is a better super car than this. Would you?
But, back on topic, who cares what happens to values. Just drive the f*cking things.
jackal said:
GRBF430F1 said:
tuscaneer said:
.......sounds again like you're trying to convince yourself of future residual strength
As I have said numerous times now the value of the 650s Spider is totally irrelevant to me as its a long term keeper.No other supercar offers such a breadth of abilities in a single car. Its the total package and real deal if you want 1 car
TBH I have more interest in the Performante and Scuderia going up in value as both of those will be sold on when the price is right. Both great cars in their own way but also more 1 dimensional than the 650S.
Anyway they have already more than paid for any furure depreciation on the 650S.
My only comments of residual relate to the 458 which I don't own but believe will be strong which is what I genuinely think regardless of it benefitting me or not
I mean, the almost amusing level of sincerity and intensity applied here, if it were applied elsewhere in your life, just think of the potential results ?
Just sayin
Just sayin
I do not have a Macca or a Fezza and about a year ago withdrew my deposit for new 458 Spyder for various reasons ( basically salesman attitude was he was doing me favour selling me the car, not returning calls etc) but the Macca did not even hit my radar as I have a turbo car and wanted a na engine in my new sports car.
I cannot understand how anyone can say that the 488 has bought Ferrari back on par or equal to Mclaren. As far as I am aware the 488 has not been driven by anyone outside the factory so how in the world can one say its better, equal to or worse than a 650 S?
If its based on the fact that the 488 has 670bhp thats a ridiculous way to judge whether a car is better, equal to or worse than a competitor. The 650 S has a carbon tub which counters anything Ferrari has in its cooking range. I really hope like a few others that Mclaren does become a viable alternative to Ferrari as the experience I had with Ferrari was poor and it would be great to give them a reality check. Come on England!
I cannot understand how anyone can say that the 488 has bought Ferrari back on par or equal to Mclaren. As far as I am aware the 488 has not been driven by anyone outside the factory so how in the world can one say its better, equal to or worse than a 650 S?
If its based on the fact that the 488 has 670bhp thats a ridiculous way to judge whether a car is better, equal to or worse than a competitor. The 650 S has a carbon tub which counters anything Ferrari has in its cooking range. I really hope like a few others that Mclaren does become a viable alternative to Ferrari as the experience I had with Ferrari was poor and it would be great to give them a reality check. Come on England!
Edited by IMIA on Monday 9th February 00:04
What intrigues me is how expensive Ferrari can make their V8 mid engine cars before demand drops off a cliff. I skipped the 360 spider and went from a 355 spider to a 430 spider (both bought new). The 355 spider (F1 box) cost about £115k (1999), the 430 spider (also F1) bought 7 years later cost £130k approx. Cost to change from a seven year old 355 to new 430 was about £75k. My man maths says that changing up cost £10 - £11k per year of 355 ownership. Fast forward to now. Have owned a well spec'd (to what I want not what I think matters for resale)458 spider for two years and one month. Based on the likely on going drop in 458 spider values and guestimates flying about of pricing for the 488, it would appear that if in a couple of years I changed from the 458 spider to a 488 spider, cost to change would be about £150k - £160k or, man maths wise a cost to change of £40k per annum to move up. While I could afford to do it, I'd feel like I was having my gentleman's parts tweaked. Doubtless there will be some who will just sign up and not care about the cost but I can't see me being one of them.
willy wombat said:
What intrigues me is how expensive Ferrari can make their V8 mid engine cars before demand drops off a cliff. I skipped the 360 spider and went from a 355 spider to a 430 spider (both bought new). The 355 spider (F1 box) cost about £115k (1999), the 430 spider (also F1) bought 7 years later cost £130k approx. Cost to change from a seven year old 355 to new 430 was about £75k. My man maths says that changing up cost £10 - £11k per year of 355 ownership. Fast forward to now. Have owned a well spec'd (to what I want not what I think matters for resale)458 spider for two years and one month. Based on the likely on going drop in 458 spider values and guestimates flying about of pricing for the 488, it would appear that if in a couple of years I changed from the 458 spider to a 488 spider, cost to change would be about £150k - £160k or, man maths wise a cost to change of £40k per annum to move up. While I could afford to do it, I'd feel like I was having my gentleman's parts tweaked. Doubtless there will be some who will just sign up and not care about the cost but I can't see me being one of them.
I agree. Can't be good for repeat business when the depreciation and new car price hike effectively takes a lot of people out of the market. Unless you are seriously wealthy, which I'm not, it would be impossible to justify those upgrade costs especially when you have probably only done a few thousand miles as well AMDB9 said:
There are currently 96 458s on Auto Trader - way more than any other model in the range 
Spoke to a main dealer the other day explaining my "predicament" that I'd been looking to buy a F430 for some time, hadn't found the right one after missing out on a peach, and was now considering 458s, and specifically one they were selling. As I would currently need a small amount of finance to get a 458 I wasn't totally sold on the idea, and to be fair to the guy he pretty much talked me out of it.
He pretty much said that I should expect to lose around £20k on the spread on a £140k 10 plate 458 over the course of a year, whereas F430s "are not going anywhere value wise, if anything they are going up".
Was a surprise to hear someone being so candid, especially from a main dealer!
F430 prices may have risen marginally but its not meteoric and not enough to take out the buying Retail, selling Trade margin.
458 prices are still strong relatively speaking for car available in such abundance.
F430 prices will always underpin the 458 which is such an improvement it warrants a hefty premium.
Yes it will probably cost you more to run overall but its circa twice the price and a big step up so that's the cost of motoring
Smiles per miles I would say you can't go far with either so it just depends on your budget
458 prices are still strong relatively speaking for car available in such abundance.
F430 prices will always underpin the 458 which is such an improvement it warrants a hefty premium.
Yes it will probably cost you more to run overall but its circa twice the price and a big step up so that's the cost of motoring
Smiles per miles I would say you can't go far with either so it just depends on your budget
I know I am going to get shot down for this, but what the hell. Am I the only one who thinks these cars would be more fun with much less power? My F430 is far too fast to be able to give it a good thrashing on the road, and on a circuit doesn't compare to my Caterham. I think it would actually be more fun with a 2.5 litre V8 with c. 280 BHP that you could give a good blatting on the road.
_Leg_ said:
What's the f*cking point of more and more bhp?
Anyone who drives quicker than you can in a 315bhp 981 Boxster S on the road wants locking up.
Bear in mind I own a 458 Spider and a 997.2 GT3RS when I say this but this cold war on bhp and handling that the manufacturers have going on is just cock waving. It's the most pointless game of top trumps ever.
Super cars aren't "better" because they have more power, handle better or are faster. If that were the case then we wouldn't all dream about owning this below! I certainly wouldn't say that a 488 or 650s is a better super car than this. Would you?
But, back on topic, who cares what happens to values. Just drive the f*cking things.
^^^Anyone who drives quicker than you can in a 315bhp 981 Boxster S on the road wants locking up.
Bear in mind I own a 458 Spider and a 997.2 GT3RS when I say this but this cold war on bhp and handling that the manufacturers have going on is just cock waving. It's the most pointless game of top trumps ever.
Super cars aren't "better" because they have more power, handle better or are faster. If that were the case then we wouldn't all dream about owning this below! I certainly wouldn't say that a 488 or 650s is a better super car than this. Would you?
But, back on topic, who cares what happens to values. Just drive the f*cking things.
this
prices being equal, I'd take a 250 GTO over a 488 any day. Can use the thing on public roads at (almost) full chat.
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