Why so few EV large saloons?
Discussion
Our family car is a LWB V8 Audi A8 diesel. Marketed as an executive / luxury car, it's by some margin the best family car we've ever had. The extra space in the rear stops our 3 kids form kicking the back of your seat. Secure separate boot compartment. It has tremendous range, accelerates like an avalanche, is whisper-quiet and gobbles up long journeys to the point that my better half confesses to a mild sense of disappointment when a journey ends.
For a family car, I'd be OK with a battery power-source. My bigger issue is, if you’re someone who likes large saloons, how little choice there is in the EV sector. The forthcoming Audi A8 EV replacement (their “Grand Sphere”) is strictly 4-seater only. Given we've 3 kids, immediately that makes it quite useless. Up to now, A8s have been either 2 individual rear seats or a rear bench seat, at the buyer's option. Audi, in its wisdom, has removed that option from its forthcoming replacement. Clearly, the “thinking” behind this is: “fat cats only, families eff off”.
The battery Taycan seems to be a decent car, but the rear space is very poor compared to what we currently have.
Alfa is talking about a large EV saloon in 2027, which might be worth a look, but that’s some way off.
So if you don’t want an SUV, and you do want a large luxury EV saloon with lots of interior space, is it fair to say there only car currently on sale in that sector, namely the Mercedes EQS? Afaik, you can’t get it in LWB, so it’s still inferior to what we currently have, but it sees to be the closest EV alternative currently available.
Seems a bit mad that, in the brave new EV world, my “choice” in my preferred sector is confined to one car …
For a family car, I'd be OK with a battery power-source. My bigger issue is, if you’re someone who likes large saloons, how little choice there is in the EV sector. The forthcoming Audi A8 EV replacement (their “Grand Sphere”) is strictly 4-seater only. Given we've 3 kids, immediately that makes it quite useless. Up to now, A8s have been either 2 individual rear seats or a rear bench seat, at the buyer's option. Audi, in its wisdom, has removed that option from its forthcoming replacement. Clearly, the “thinking” behind this is: “fat cats only, families eff off”.
The battery Taycan seems to be a decent car, but the rear space is very poor compared to what we currently have.
Alfa is talking about a large EV saloon in 2027, which might be worth a look, but that’s some way off.
So if you don’t want an SUV, and you do want a large luxury EV saloon with lots of interior space, is it fair to say there only car currently on sale in that sector, namely the Mercedes EQS? Afaik, you can’t get it in LWB, so it’s still inferior to what we currently have, but it sees to be the closest EV alternative currently available.
Seems a bit mad that, in the brave new EV world, my “choice” in my preferred sector is confined to one car …
Battery eats up too much height for credible space of a genuinely luxury car. Cost of the car may allow a quirky complex pack arrangement to recover the second row footroom (think polestar2 / Volvo CMF and Taycan /J1 but it’s a compromise to elegant engineering. Lucid air long range gets rid of the “foot garage” for the extra cells. Coupled with a shrinking saloon market anyway regardless of powertrain you can see why the bulk of EVs are SUV proportions.
They can only produce EV's so quickly and the same goes for the rate at which they can launch new models. It's therefore not a surprise that most manufacturers are very happy to focus on the car types they know they can sell easily = town cars and SUV's.
As said above, saloon sales are dying anyway. Also when you go EV the arguments for choosing a saloon over an SUV are limited. The powertrain and weight distribution all but removes the bodyroll associated with ICE SUV's. Likewise running costs are minimal, the green werdo's won't scoff at you driving an SUV so long as it's electric either.
Put it all together and it's a tough sell convincing the accountants that it's worth making and new saloon cars these days, especially if EV. A lot of 'sort of' saloons around still but they're nearly all, strictly speaking, hatchbacks.
As said above, saloon sales are dying anyway. Also when you go EV the arguments for choosing a saloon over an SUV are limited. The powertrain and weight distribution all but removes the bodyroll associated with ICE SUV's. Likewise running costs are minimal, the green werdo's won't scoff at you driving an SUV so long as it's electric either.
Put it all together and it's a tough sell convincing the accountants that it's worth making and new saloon cars these days, especially if EV. A lot of 'sort of' saloons around still but they're nearly all, strictly speaking, hatchbacks.
Electric propulsion using a skateboard layout with the ability to easily power both axles is forcing car design in a specific direction.
The low CofG and the low polar moment of inertia means mass is no longer so much of a vehicle dynamic issue, however there is an acute need to minimise drag co-efficient by tapering the roofline.
Add in the popularity of SUV-type driving position, ease of access, etc. and the future is converging towards 'one design'.
It still cracks me up that the company who first designed a car that most cars in the future will look like was BMW with the X6, probably the most hated car on PH.
The low CofG and the low polar moment of inertia means mass is no longer so much of a vehicle dynamic issue, however there is an acute need to minimise drag co-efficient by tapering the roofline.
Add in the popularity of SUV-type driving position, ease of access, etc. and the future is converging towards 'one design'.
It still cracks me up that the company who first designed a car that most cars in the future will look like was BMW with the X6, probably the most hated car on PH.
GT9 said:
Electric propulsion using a skateboard layout with the ability to easily power both axles is forcing car design in a specific direction.
The low CofG and the low polar moment of inertia means mass is no longer so much of a vehicle dynamic issue, however there is an acute need to minimise drag co-efficient by tapering the roofline.
Add in the popularity of SUV-type driving position, ease of access, etc. and the future is converging towards 'one design'.
It still cracks me up that the company who first designed a car that most cars in the future will look like was BMW with the X6, probably the most hated car on PH.
The X6 really is a ridiculous thing though. Obnoxiously huge and less practical in every way than the X5. It was designed to look 'sporty' but it can't possibly claim sportiness with a huge engine mounted high above the front axle...The low CofG and the low polar moment of inertia means mass is no longer so much of a vehicle dynamic issue, however there is an acute need to minimise drag co-efficient by tapering the roofline.
Add in the popularity of SUV-type driving position, ease of access, etc. and the future is converging towards 'one design'.
It still cracks me up that the company who first designed a car that most cars in the future will look like was BMW with the X6, probably the most hated car on PH.
With EV, at least, as you say, the decisions that end up pushing the designers down the sporty SUV/crossover route are all justified and make sense. The X6 doesn't make any sense at all, unless a person buys one because they think they can pose in it - which makes it about the least cool car on the road
To be honest I always hated the obsession with SUV's up until I got the iPace, in EV form they really do make a great deal of sense and the traditional drawbacks of a large and tall car are no longer an issue. At least not so much of an issue that they're a sufficient reason to not enjoy the seating position, luxury of space and practicality.
I think you've answered your own question here without realising it.
Your own preferred vehicle with which you are very happy, is being discontinued in its current form. That means that you are in a very small minority and the manufacturer (Audi) does not see fit to update the model so that they can sell a handful in the next few years.
It's therefore hardly surprising that you can't fit those same requirements around an emerging market (EV's) which is going to be guided by what the majority wants and cars that can be sold in volume.
Your own preferred vehicle with which you are very happy, is being discontinued in its current form. That means that you are in a very small minority and the manufacturer (Audi) does not see fit to update the model so that they can sell a handful in the next few years.
It's therefore hardly surprising that you can't fit those same requirements around an emerging market (EV's) which is going to be guided by what the majority wants and cars that can be sold in volume.
OP, "The extra space in the rear stops our 3 kids form kicking the back of your seat."
Sounds like your kids need to be taught how to behave rather than having a large car to travel in.
One of my daughters developed the habit of kicking the back of the driver's seat despite being asked not to & being told there would be consequences if she continued. The next time she did it turning around & going back home so she missed a friend's birthday party cured her.
Sounds like your kids need to be taught how to behave rather than having a large car to travel in.
One of my daughters developed the habit of kicking the back of the driver's seat despite being asked not to & being told there would be consequences if she continued. The next time she did it turning around & going back home so she missed a friend's birthday party cured her.
TheDeuce said:
The X6 really is a ridiculous thing though. Obnoxiously huge and less practical in every way than the X5. It was designed to look 'sporty' but it can't possibly claim sportiness with a huge engine mounted high above the front axle...
With EV, at least, as you say, the decisions that end up pushing the designers down the sporty SUV/crossover route are all justified and make sense. The X6 doesn't make any sense at all, unless a person buys one because they think they can pose in it - which makes it about the least cool car on the road
I would suggest that nearly everyone who think that has never driven one.With EV, at least, as you say, the decisions that end up pushing the designers down the sporty SUV/crossover route are all justified and make sense. The X6 doesn't make any sense at all, unless a person buys one because they think they can pose in it - which makes it about the least cool car on the road
I had a rental one for a week and found it to be a more pleasant driving experience than the X5 it was based on.
Not a lot in it, just subtle differences.
I don't usually form an opinion until lI've actually tried something first hand, the X6 is slated because its the 'cool' thing to do, which I think makes your comment slightly ironic.
GT9 said:
TheDeuce said:
The X6 really is a ridiculous thing though. Obnoxiously huge and less practical in every way than the X5. It was designed to look 'sporty' but it can't possibly claim sportiness with a huge engine mounted high above the front axle...
With EV, at least, as you say, the decisions that end up pushing the designers down the sporty SUV/crossover route are all justified and make sense. The X6 doesn't make any sense at all, unless a person buys one because they think they can pose in it - which makes it about the least cool car on the road
I would suggest that nearly everyone who think that has never driven one.With EV, at least, as you say, the decisions that end up pushing the designers down the sporty SUV/crossover route are all justified and make sense. The X6 doesn't make any sense at all, unless a person buys one because they think they can pose in it - which makes it about the least cool car on the road
I had a rental one for a week and found it to be a more pleasant driving experience than the X5 it was based on.
Not a lot in it, just subtle differences.
I don't usually form an opinion until lI've actually tried something first hand, the X6 is slated because its the 'cool' thing to do, which I think makes your comment slightly ironic.
Do you like the sound of the
BMW i7
or
Lucid Air
There are so few EV luxury saloons because the market for luxury saloons is relatively small, and in the UK, it's even smaller.
Hence, manufacturers will invest in R&D into new models that will both sell in reasonable volumes and generate good margins too, like luxury EV SUVs. I have always preferred luxury saloons, having owned a few V8 petrols.
Now that I've spent a good amount of time with a variety of SUVs, I can completely understand why they are so popular and why saloons aren't that popular anymore.
Hence, I've decided to adapt to changing times and have gone for an electric SUV.
BMW i7
or
Lucid Air
There are so few EV luxury saloons because the market for luxury saloons is relatively small, and in the UK, it's even smaller.
Hence, manufacturers will invest in R&D into new models that will both sell in reasonable volumes and generate good margins too, like luxury EV SUVs. I have always preferred luxury saloons, having owned a few V8 petrols.
Now that I've spent a good amount of time with a variety of SUVs, I can completely understand why they are so popular and why saloons aren't that popular anymore.
Hence, I've decided to adapt to changing times and have gone for an electric SUV.
The key is that the saloon shape is just about the most inefficient and impractical use of space which is why it has steadily evaporated from most segments. Pretty much the only people who use large saloons today are minicab drivers. Besides which, once you fill the floor space with batteries it becomes even more useless.
DonkeyApple said:
The key is that the saloon shape is just about the most inefficient and impractical use of space which is why it has steadily evaporated from most segments. Pretty much the only people who use large saloons today are minicab drivers. Besides which, once you fill the floor space with batteries it becomes even more useless.
Not sure thats the reason people moved to SUVs and crossovers though. The main reasons were poor spatial awareness that can be (somewhat) mitigated by a higher driving position and the increasing number of overweight / obese / unfit folk who struggle to get into a vehicle that sits lower to the ground without sustaining some kind of injury. Agree that the “skateboard” design of EV means that there’s less of a downside to SUV in the BEV world compared to ICE.
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