Taycan starting to look like a bargain

[williaa68]

I can’t find a single used cross tourismo with a tow bar? Am I doing something wrong….?

[Nomme de Plum]

williaa68 said:

I can’t find a single used cross tourismo with a tow bar? Am I doing something wrong….?

Probably because Porsche decided along with Audi they would not provide one as they did not see their customers as people who tow. Plenty of other EVs have tow bars if you need one. Because of my location I see them regularly.

Not sure about the updated model but if it is based on the original chassis the answer is likely to be no so you would need to wait for the next iteration in a few years time.

I'm sure your local Porsche dealer can advise.

[silentbrown]

Nomme de Plum said:

It is the principle of comparing apples with apples, nothing more.

So you'd be happier if he'd compared the monthly cost of a P300 diesel RRS with an identical car, both supplied by the same finance company?

Any sensible comparison involves changing just one independent variable, and measuring the resulting dependent variables.

The independent variable is the vehicle. The dependent variables are the residual value, APR, and monthly cost.

[Louis Balfour]

Nomme de Plum said:

andyalan10 said:

I am so far from understanding your point of view on this that it is becoming fascinating to me.

He can lease a diesel RRS for £600ppm with £20,000 down.
A PHEV RRS costs £1025ppm with £20,000 down.

Which part of that is not balanced?

Is the diesel £425/month cheaper or not?

You can press pause and read every line of both quotes.

What JLR chooses to do with interest rates, or list prices, or discount to list, or assumed final value is what makes the monthly figures different. But the final outcome is that one car is £425/month cheaper to finance than the other.

Because when one produces a report for a client/ customer the starting point is a level specification so you can filter out the stuff from one or add back options on the lower spec item. Otherwise why not compare to a BMW or Merc or any other similar product.

Then you move onto other factors like level of deposit and interest rates. Surely you understand that finance does not need to come from JLR which could also impact on the comparison and then again some of us have access to cash so the cost should be the cost of taking that money off investment.

It is the principle of comparing apples with apples, nothing more.

It is incredibly disengenous to assert some sort of like for like comparison which in reality it isn't. As I said if he had talked it through line by line then that would have been the correct approach but he didn't.

He is comparing apples and apples. He is comparing LRFS own quotes. As you no doubt know, other finance quotes may be lower, but the diesel would still be cheaper to finance. Furthermore the diesel better suits his requirement.

It’s not Harry being disingenuous.

[Zero Fuchs]

Not really as any savvy businessperson would put a hybrid through the business shirley?

[JimmyJack]

Zero Fuchs said:

Not really as any savvy businessperson would put a hybrid through the business shirley?

The hybrid will be written down at 18% and the diesel at 6% for depreciation purposes in a sole trader/partnership scenario.

[Zero Fuchs]

JimmyJack said:

Zero Fuchs said:

Not really as any savvy businessperson would put a hybrid through the business shirley?

The hybrid will be written down at 18% and the diesel at 6% for depreciation purposes in a sole trader/partnership scenario.

I suspect he has a ltd so would claim back the corporation tax and lower BIK, relative to claiming back nothing as a private buyer. Point being that it would likely cost you more to buy a diesel through the business than a hybrid.

Then factor in the maintenance etc.

You'd really want to own a diesel to not consider a more cost effective alternative.

[JimmyJack]

Zero Fuchs said:

JimmyJack said:

Zero Fuchs said:

Not really as any savvy businessperson would put a hybrid through the business shirley?

The hybrid will be written down at 18% and the diesel at 6% for depreciation purposes in a sole trader/partnership scenario.

I suspect he has a ltd so would claim back the corporation tax and lower BIK, relative to claiming back nothing as a private buyer. Point being that it would likely cost you more to buy a diesel through the business than a hybrid.

Then factor in the maintenance etc.

You'd really want to own a diesel to not consider a more cost effective alternative.

I’am sure Harry has a good accountant and has done the numbers.

[Louis Balfour]

Zero Fuchs said:

Not really as any savvy businessperson would put a hybrid through the business shirley?

That's his point no? Unless you're have a business the numbers don't work.

Now, for the sake of balance, we should keep in mind that 'arry is a consultant for JLR so probably won't be paying list for the car. Also, he has at least two businesses so I am not entirely persuaded that he will be paying for the thing himself, out of taxed income.

But he was trying to explain why the used market for EVs is less buoyant than that for used toilet paper, and I have seen nothing in his video that looks biased.

[Zero Fuchs]

JimmyJack said:

Zero Fuchs said:

JimmyJack said:

Zero Fuchs said:

Not really as any savvy businessperson would put a hybrid through the business shirley?

The hybrid will be written down at 18% and the diesel at 6% for depreciation purposes in a sole trader/partnership scenario.

I suspect he has a ltd so would claim back the corporation tax and lower BIK, relative to claiming back nothing as a private buyer. Point being that it would likely cost you more to buy a diesel through the business than a hybrid.

Then factor in the maintenance etc.

You'd really want to own a diesel to not consider a more cost effective alternative.

I’am sure Harry has a good accountant and has done the numbers.

So have I. The outcome won't be much different as HMRC rules are what they are.

The main difference here is that he has the resources to not bother about the additional cost. I also buy cars for personal use from my own pocket. But I'm not going to try and compare the cost of one over another as it's not really comparable.

[Nomme de Plum]

Louis Balfour said:

He is comparing apples and apples. He is comparing LRFS own quotes. As you no doubt know, other finance quotes may be lower, but the diesel would still be cheaper to finance. Furthermore the diesel better suits his requirement.

It’s not Harry being disingenuous.

I did this for my living with 'stuff' with lots more noughts attached. I explained how it is done in the professional world and what he does isn't it, but clearly like in a few other threads people are easily led.

[D4rez]

andyalan10 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

I was not implying he has any axe to grind, just that he does not approach comparisons from an entirely balanced perspective. A completely impartial comparison would have put those two finance examples side by side and talked through them line by line. This is pretty basic stuff when doing such analysis. Anyone who just flashes each sheet so quickly it cannot be read then states hey ho the PHEV is massively more expensive to lease should be treated with a huge amount of scepticism.

As for the PVs did he tell us what his ROI is? So maybe not necessarily green just good business.

I am so far from understanding your point of view on this that it is becoming fascinating to me.

He can lease a diesel RRS for £600ppm with £20,000 down.
A PHEV RRS costs £1025ppm with £20,000 down.

Which part of that is not balanced?

Is the diesel £425/month cheaper or not?

You can press pause and read every line of both quotes.

What JLR chooses to do with interest rates, or list prices, or discount to list, or assumed final value is what makes the monthly figures different. But the final outcome is that one car is £425/month cheaper to finance than the other.

The PHEV has a lot more performance surely is the point, it’s also a more pleasant powertrain unless you like the smell of NOx and gasping rattle of a diesel. It’s like a second quicker to 60

[Nomme de Plum]

D4rez said:

The PHEV has a lot more performance surely is the point, it’s also a more pleasant powertrain unless you like the smell of NOx and gasping rattle of a diesel. It’s like a second quicker to 60

You can lead a horse to water, as they say.

The Taycan is still circa £50K I don't call that a bargain looking at the price back in 2020.

[Louis Balfour]

Nomme de Plum said:

Louis Balfour said:

He is comparing apples and apples. He is comparing LRFS own quotes. As you no doubt know, other finance quotes may be lower, but the diesel would still be cheaper to finance. Furthermore the diesel better suits his requirement.

It’s not Harry being disingenuous.

I did this for my living with 'stuff' with lots more noughts attached. I explained how it is done in the professional world and what he does isn't it, but clearly like in a few other threads people are easily led.

The fact that the asset value is greater for the ERR is immaterial. The point he is making is that he can buy the car best suited to his needs at a lower interest rate and monthly cost than the one that doesn't do the job so well.

Here are the two deals for comparison.

[Nomme de Plum]

Louis Balfour said:

The fact that the asset value is greater for the ERR is immaterial. The point he is making is that he can buy the car best suited to his needs at a lower interest rate and monthly cost than the one that doesn't do the job so well.

Here are the two deals for comparison.

If you can't understand that the video maker is willing to accept mismatched comparison then what i did for a living will mean little to you.

As i said the comparison is not apples for apples but if you are content with such mismatches that's cool by me.

[Louis Balfour]

Nomme de Plum said:

Louis Balfour said:

The fact that the asset value is greater for the ERR is immaterial. The point he is making is that he can buy the car best suited to his needs at a lower interest rate and monthly cost than the one that doesn't do the job so well.

Here are the two deals for comparison.

If you can't understand that the video maker is willing to accept mismatched comparison then what i did for a living will mean little to you.

As i said the comparison is not apples for apples but if you are content with such mismatches that's cool by me.

Why do you believe it is a mismatched comparison?

Edited to add: You wrote this on another thread:

Nomme de Plum said:

I'm only about 5 minutes in but the RR examples, flashed extremely quickly so can't be read without freezing video.are inconsistent. The Hybrid is £99K with £20K deposit and nearing 10% interest rate and the 300 is £85K with £25K deposit and interest of under 6%. No wonder the monthlies are so different. Hardly apples for apples is it. If this is his approach i take everything he says with a very big pinch of salt.

Is that why you're saying it's a mismatched comparison?

Edited by Louis Balfour on Sunday 11th February 18:01

[Nomme de Plum]

Louis Balfour said:

Why do you believe it is a mismatched comparison?

I explained already. Start with a line by line comparison of the respective specifications and level them. Why would someone compare a say 500kw car with 600kw, the towing capacity which is based on GVW with tow load for each option. It's very detailed. That is just the start.

[Louis Balfour]

Nomme de Plum said:

Louis Balfour said:

Why do you believe it is a mismatched comparison?

I explained already. Start with a line by line comparison of the respective specifications and level them. Why would someone compare a say 500kw car with 600kw, the towing capacity which is based on GVW with tow load for each option. It's very detailed. That is just the start.

I've checked back several pages and can find no explanation from you. Copy and past it if you'd be so kind.

On the subject of why compare a 500kw car with a 600kw car - because if that metric is not the defining one for the utility of the vehicle it becomes largely irrelevant.

[oop north]

Surprised nobody has bothered to have a go on land rover’s configurator to check the differences…

To start with the diesel is available as SE without the dynamic nonsense (it’s purely visual tat like making the alloys darker - a stupid way to blow around £3k. In my opinion anyway ). The phev has to have the dynamic SE option and with the engine change from 3.0d to 3.0 petrol with plug in hybrid the total change in list price is about £9,500. Then on the d you get a £5k deposit contribution so the phev is £14,500 more for basically the same spec other than engine

The apr is 5.9% on the diesel and 9.9% on the phev

And with the standard deposits per the configurator of £9578 it ends up with the diesel being £450 per month more than the phev. Which you can more or less get back if you stick the phev through a company (depends on your personal tax position) and you would have to be mad to put a diesel Range Rover through your company (a great way to blow tax)

[Nomme de Plum]

Louis Balfour said:

I've checked back several pages and can find no explanation from you. Copy and past it if you'd be so kind.

On the subject of why compare a 500kw car with a 600kw car - because if that metric is not the defining one for the utility of the vehicle it becomes largely irrelevant.

No it is detailed above if you cannot understand it i'm not her to educate you. Maybe if i understood your field of expertise i could help, What did you study at uni?