Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSwvQE0tgyM
Johnny Smiths review of the new 500e
IMO this is spot on, they've nailed it again with re-designing a classic. Trust the Italians, the styling is extremely well judged and the specs are very decent too; 42 kWh battery in the biggest one, 199 miles range, 0-60 in 8-9 seconds. Perfect. I'll take a convertible version please.
Johnny Smiths review of the new 500e
IMO this is spot on, they've nailed it again with re-designing a classic. Trust the Italians, the styling is extremely well judged and the specs are very decent too; 42 kWh battery in the biggest one, 199 miles range, 0-60 in 8-9 seconds. Perfect. I'll take a convertible version please.
I had nothing but hatred for the last Fiat 500, used to drive a lot of hire cars for work and used to cry a little when a 500 turned up.
This though... looks fantastic! I think if they can be had for sensible prices then you’re going to see a lot more ev converts, I’m tempted myself.
This though... looks fantastic! I think if they can be had for sensible prices then you’re going to see a lot more ev converts, I’m tempted myself.
Otispunkmeyer said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSwvQE0tgyM
Johnny Smiths review of the new 500e
IMO this is spot on, they've nailed it again with re-designing a classic. Trust the Italians, the styling is extremely well judged and the specs are very decent too; 42 kWh battery in the biggest one, 199 miles range, 0-60 in 8-9 seconds. Perfect. I'll take a convertible version please.
I like his reviews. Nice and calm with the odd joke thrown in. Looks to be a half decent car and I bet it'll sell like hot cakes. Johnny Smiths review of the new 500e
IMO this is spot on, they've nailed it again with re-designing a classic. Trust the Italians, the styling is extremely well judged and the specs are very decent too; 42 kWh battery in the biggest one, 199 miles range, 0-60 in 8-9 seconds. Perfect. I'll take a convertible version please.
Jonny Smith is brilliant.
The car is pretty, and quite cool, and it has a chance, but I don't understand the lack of ambition. It's a bespoke EV (no ICE version ever appearing), yet it only has a 43kWh battery? How many more small EVs are we going to see with premium style/tech and sub 200 mile range? It's like manufacturers have decided they can't make money on cars that can actually do single car family duty, so they are gonna try to coin it selling second cars instead. The Zoe (maybe the Peugeot/Vauxhall competes) is still the best all-round inexpensive EV available, 10 years after it was designed.
Also, where are the rivals for the ID3? The only one I can think of is the Soul.
The car is pretty, and quite cool, and it has a chance, but I don't understand the lack of ambition. It's a bespoke EV (no ICE version ever appearing), yet it only has a 43kWh battery? How many more small EVs are we going to see with premium style/tech and sub 200 mile range? It's like manufacturers have decided they can't make money on cars that can actually do single car family duty, so they are gonna try to coin it selling second cars instead. The Zoe (maybe the Peugeot/Vauxhall competes) is still the best all-round inexpensive EV available, 10 years after it was designed.
Also, where are the rivals for the ID3? The only one I can think of is the Soul.
It's always a compromise, and in a car just over 3.6m long getting 42kwh in there isn't bad going. More would probably mean less usable rear seats or less boot space, plus a bigger pricetag. Or going with a boxier, Up/Mii/Citigo shape. I doubt many 500s, Minis and the like do many long trips today. If it can sustain 85kW charging for long then big trips really wouldn't be a problem either.
The Zoe is quite a bit bigger and very tall - you sit higher than many things now labelled as SUVs because of the battery under the seats. And (at list prices anyway) more expensive.
The Zoe is quite a bit bigger and very tall - you sit higher than many things now labelled as SUVs because of the battery under the seats. And (at list prices anyway) more expensive.
I think that's where the fit works nicely though.
Small cars, and low range are what's normally needed in cities and built up areas, where style and looks are also far more important than BHP.
Yes, we'd all like more range, but whether people know it or not, many of those city dwellers only need 100 or so, and this then meets all those requirements, it's small and easy to drive and park, looks good, is priced right and has the range they need.
The problem with moving up a notch is that you enter that world of cars that need to be practical in terms of space, have longer range, but also cost not much, and currently battery tech isn't cheap enough to do that. The ID3 is getting there... but it's not quite.
You'll likely see over the coming years these "blobs" of the market gradually merging... with expensive SUVs at the top, mid range (but still expensive) Saloons and Hatchbacks, and cheaper sort range city cars. Eventually they'll all merge, but for now their focussing on their target market heavily.
Small cars, and low range are what's normally needed in cities and built up areas, where style and looks are also far more important than BHP.
Yes, we'd all like more range, but whether people know it or not, many of those city dwellers only need 100 or so, and this then meets all those requirements, it's small and easy to drive and park, looks good, is priced right and has the range they need.
The problem with moving up a notch is that you enter that world of cars that need to be practical in terms of space, have longer range, but also cost not much, and currently battery tech isn't cheap enough to do that. The ID3 is getting there... but it's not quite.
You'll likely see over the coming years these "blobs" of the market gradually merging... with expensive SUVs at the top, mid range (but still expensive) Saloons and Hatchbacks, and cheaper sort range city cars. Eventually they'll all merge, but for now their focussing on their target market heavily.
Renault barely sold any 22kWh cars when the 40 was available for a couple of grand more. I would bet money that'll be the same with the FIAT - the entry car looks cheap but is too compromised. I guess that's the point.
I see what you are saying about picking niches to compete in, but it feels like they are either protecting their existing ICE range or unable/unwilling to actually build an affordable family EV. Battery prices have drifted downward over the last 3 years, but car prices have drifted up, with the only benefit being style and fancy screens.
I see what you are saying about picking niches to compete in, but it feels like they are either protecting their existing ICE range or unable/unwilling to actually build an affordable family EV. Battery prices have drifted downward over the last 3 years, but car prices have drifted up, with the only benefit being style and fancy screens.
I do get your thinking... and I think there's definitely an element of that in there.
But despite the battery price drop, I think giving a car around 250 miles of range, is really quite expensive. Look at all the cars that can do that sort of distance (not the entry level models)... the cheapest is a Skoda Enyaq iV 80 not et available at £35,950. Even Tesla who have gradually been producing smaller and cheaper cars and have no ICE investment at all are only now talking about a $25,000 so that'll be a good few years away yet.
Part of that will be competition (they will after all charge as much as they can), but part of it'll be the raw cost of adding bigger batteries. A few techy bits inside however are a small price to pay.
And while cynical me also agrees that they don't want to sell these, the fines the EU and the like are levying on manufactures persuades me that perhaps that's not the game at all.
But despite the battery price drop, I think giving a car around 250 miles of range, is really quite expensive. Look at all the cars that can do that sort of distance (not the entry level models)... the cheapest is a Skoda Enyaq iV 80 not et available at £35,950. Even Tesla who have gradually been producing smaller and cheaper cars and have no ICE investment at all are only now talking about a $25,000 so that'll be a good few years away yet.
Part of that will be competition (they will after all charge as much as they can), but part of it'll be the raw cost of adding bigger batteries. A few techy bits inside however are a small price to pay.
And while cynical me also agrees that they don't want to sell these, the fines the EU and the like are levying on manufactures persuades me that perhaps that's not the game at all.
DuncanM23 said:
Renault barely sold any 22kWh cars when the 40 was available for a couple of grand more. I would bet money that'll be the same with the FIAT - the entry car looks cheap but is too compromised. I guess that's the point.
I see what you are saying about picking niches to compete in, but it feels like they are either protecting their existing ICE range or unable/unwilling to actually build an affordable family EV. Battery prices have drifted downward over the last 3 years, but car prices have drifted up, with the only benefit being style and fancy screens.
The fact it has managed to dip under the £20k barrier for a car with actual kerb appeal is I think a big step forward. The lease prices at the moment are pure comedy though.I see what you are saying about picking niches to compete in, but it feels like they are either protecting their existing ICE range or unable/unwilling to actually build an affordable family EV. Battery prices have drifted downward over the last 3 years, but car prices have drifted up, with the only benefit being style and fancy screens.
£450 a month for a base spec car worth £20k? That's £16k+ over the term, utter madness.
Otispunkmeyer said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSwvQE0tgyM
Johnny Smiths review of the new 500e
IMO this is spot on, they've nailed it again with re-designing a classic...
Kryten likes it too:Johnny Smiths review of the new 500e
IMO this is spot on, they've nailed it again with re-designing a classic...
sjg said:
It's always a compromise, and in a car just over 3.6m long getting 42kwh in there isn't bad going. More would probably mean less usable rear seats or less boot space, plus a bigger pricetag. Or going with a boxier, Up/Mii/Citigo shape. I doubt many 500s, Minis and the like do many long trips today. If it can sustain 85kW charging for long then big trips really wouldn't be a problem either.
The Zoe is quite a bit bigger and very tall - you sit higher than many things now labelled as SUVs because of the battery under the seats. And (at list prices anyway) more expensive.
Yes the ZOE quite a bit bigger than it looks. And your sit on it rather than in it, feeling like you’re perched up high.The Zoe is quite a bit bigger and very tall - you sit higher than many things now labelled as SUVs because of the battery under the seats. And (at list prices anyway) more expensive.
I had an abarth 595, it only did 250 miles to a tank, tops and that was trying to eek it a bit. So 200 odd here, absolutely fine for this type of car.
I noticed on some other reviews, maybe the more European ones? They show a 3 door version that has suicide style opening on one side. That looks very neat to me, perfect for posting little ones into the back.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff