First experience of a longer trip with an EV
Discussion
If you're a good planner, and your journeys can be planned like that, it's fine. At one point my wife asked what would happen if we ran out of juice. I said, we get a tow to a charger and charge up. She was under the impression that you could charge an EV from another car, like a jump start. She's not stupid, but she bought "a car" not some science project. Again, in the US (UK/EU differs) a tow is hugely expensive and you can wait many hours for a tow truck. And it was Labor day, so I doubt we would have got one for hours.
When the battery indicator hit 1%, it was a hugely stressful experience. We were on some back road trying to find a charger shown on a couple of (inaccurate) maps, one was shown at a convenience store but it didn't exist, so we were at 0% for a few miles. My shoulders were tense, I was getting a headache and feeling quite sick. We started getting quite upset at each other before we calmed down, and that's really rare. Turned off the AC, outside was about 90F so that was no fun. Started worrying about the dogs being alone in the house for that long as the dog sitter left in the morning - we expected to be home by lunchtime, not 6:30PM.
Then the VW map showed an 18 hour journey left because of charger time - luckily it didn't know about the 50kW charger about 25 miles away.
Or, I take any other car, and do what we want, no planning, just fill with gas anywhere and get on with our lives. Even if every major town was packed with DC chargers, the distances here are so big that I really can't see how EVs will work for many people.
When the battery indicator hit 1%, it was a hugely stressful experience. We were on some back road trying to find a charger shown on a couple of (inaccurate) maps, one was shown at a convenience store but it didn't exist, so we were at 0% for a few miles. My shoulders were tense, I was getting a headache and feeling quite sick. We started getting quite upset at each other before we calmed down, and that's really rare. Turned off the AC, outside was about 90F so that was no fun. Started worrying about the dogs being alone in the house for that long as the dog sitter left in the morning - we expected to be home by lunchtime, not 6:30PM.
Then the VW map showed an 18 hour journey left because of charger time - luckily it didn't know about the 50kW charger about 25 miles away.
Or, I take any other car, and do what we want, no planning, just fill with gas anywhere and get on with our lives. Even if every major town was packed with DC chargers, the distances here are so big that I really can't see how EVs will work for many people.
Bannock said:
Surely once all those "gas" stations are converted to charger stations, or at least all of them have chargers alongside the petrol pumps, then the problem goes away, apart from slightly extended re-fuelling times?
Yes, although "slightly" adds up over a long trip. I've also been surprised by the lack of availability of power, the cost of installation and the unreliability over here. We lose power around once a month, "we" being at least half the town, for a few hours up to a day. Luckily the PO of our house installed a huge power feed and a massive generator, which much have cost him a fortune. And we're not out in the boonies.What The Deuces said:
And yet i follow motoring journo Dan Trent on twitter and yesterday he had a very similar experience
Who's Dan Trent? As for motoring journalist and EVs....the less said the better, Twitter clearly is also the source of all truth 
.This is going to be my 8th winter running an EV in the UK. Apart from trying to use a 24kWh Nissan Leaf on a dual carriageway in near sub zero conditions (I don't recommend it), my experience of owing an EV and taking one to Europe multiple times bares no resemblance to what OP describes.
EV range, charging speed, specs etc in 2022 is absolutely fine for the 'mass market', the biggest issue is cost, but what isn't expensive right now
gangzoom said:
What The Deuces said:
And yet i follow motoring journo Dan Trent on twitter and yesterday he had a very similar experience
Who's Dan Trent? As for motoring journalist and EVs....the less said the better, Twitter clearly is also the source of all truth .This is going to be my 8th winter running an EV in the UK. Apart from trying to use a 24kWh Nissan Leaf on a dual carriageway in near sub zero conditions (I don't recommend it), my experience of owing an EV and taking one to Europe multiple times bares no resemblance to what OP describes.
EV range, charging speed, specs etc in 2022 is absolutely fine for the 'mass market', the biggest issue is cost, but what isn't expensive right now
mr_spock said:
I’d agree with all that. Much of the US simply isn’t ready....I wonder how many people are really prepared to add 2-3 hours to a long journey.
People do long drives here - I bought a double bass in Chicago and drove 10 hours with 3 quick stops straight home. It was mad and I was exhausted, but it’s doable. If we go to family in Tennessee it’s 12 hours, and we can split the driving in shifts and do it in one go. Add the EV charging into it and it’s much longer, and we need to add a last charge in a major city to be sure to get back again. It can be done, but I think in the US that’s a big barrier to wider acceptance.
For what it's worth, Google Maps says that Chicago-Mebane trip is 12 hours 12 minutes to 12 hours 39 minutes:People do long drives here - I bought a double bass in Chicago and drove 10 hours with 3 quick stops straight home. It was mad and I was exhausted, but it’s doable. If we go to family in Tennessee it’s 12 hours, and we can split the driving in shifts and do it in one go. Add the EV charging into it and it’s much longer, and we need to add a last charge in a major city to be sure to get back again. It can be done, but I think in the US that’s a big barrier to wider acceptance.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chicago,+IL/Mebane...
While an ID4 might add 3-4 hours to the trip due to its relatively slow DC charging speed and somewhat limited fast charging options along the best routes, something like a Tesla Model 3 LR would only need about an extra hour vs. an ICEV:
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=1d9b67a...
For me (and I'd wager for most EV owners) the extra time for my (pretty infrequent) long road trips is more than offset by the rest of an EV's advantages the other 99% of the time.
Bannock said:
croyde said:
Has anyone worked out the cost of running an EV if you include all the lunches and coffee consumed whilst it's being charged on route 
Come on, as if we don't buy overpriced Ginsters pasties and Pringles at every petrol stop already!
My passengers hate me as I'm happy to drive the 400/500 miles my fuel tank gives me and might stop for a quick pee
croyde said:
Bannock said:
croyde said:
Has anyone worked out the cost of running an EV if you include all the lunches and coffee consumed whilst it's being charged on route
Come on, as if we don't buy overpriced Ginsters pasties and Pringles at every petrol stop already!My passengers hate me as I'm happy to drive the 400/500 miles my fuel tank gives me and might stop for a quick pee
My missus and kids have me stopping every bloody 10 minutes for eating and so on, on every long drive, it takes bloody ages to get anywhere already, so charging my Leaf isn't really adding to the procedure!
Zcd1 said:
For what it's worth, Google Maps says that Chicago-Mebane trip is 12 hours 12 minutes to 12 hours 39 minutes:
While an ID4 might add 3-4 hours to the trip due to its relatively slow DC charging speed and somewhat limited fast charging options along the best routes, something like a Tesla Model 3 LR would only need about an extra hour vs. an ICEV
For me (and I'd wager for most EV owners) the extra time for my (pretty infrequent) long road trips is more than offset by the rest of an EV's advantages the other 99% of the time.
For what it's worth, I got a speeding ticket at about 90, which I'd been doing in my rented MPV for a while While an ID4 might add 3-4 hours to the trip due to its relatively slow DC charging speed and somewhat limited fast charging options along the best routes, something like a Tesla Model 3 LR would only need about an extra hour vs. an ICEV
For me (and I'd wager for most EV owners) the extra time for my (pretty infrequent) long road trips is more than offset by the rest of an EV's advantages the other 99% of the time.
Looking back it took me 12 hours ish, with 3 stops for fuel, loo and food. No stop took longer than 20 mins. I did arrive home completely exhausted, and developed Covid symptoms the next day. Adding 3-4 hours would have made it not worth it. The extra cost of renting a Tesla would have been double the cost of the fuel used (ish).
I have plenty of friends, mostly musicians or car guys, who will regularly do long trips to small towns, since that's often where the gigs or cool old cars are. I appreciate you don't do long trips, neither did I in the UK (south coast from Cambridgeshire, 3 hours, all major motorways, would be easy in an EV). I didn't appreciate how big the US is until I moved here, nor how spread out "civilisation" is!
Anyway, not here to bash EVs, we have one and it's good at its job. It also couldn't carry the loads my huge Toyota SUV can manage, and that's fine. So many people here have a car and a truck/SUV for exactly that reason. Just thought I'd share what it's like to have one in the US and just treat it like a car. For the masses for whom a car is a white good, it will be a challenging change of mindset as said earlier.
Several this year have ended up completely stranded here in the NW Scottish Highlands.
Required infrastructure just not available yet.
I opted for a hybrid, which I am currently getting >600 mpg whilst I'm in the area (about 30 miles per day, all on battery). When I go further north, I get petrol, EV not really a sensible option.
Required infrastructure just not available yet.
I opted for a hybrid, which I am currently getting >600 mpg whilst I'm in the area (about 30 miles per day, all on battery). When I go further north, I get petrol, EV not really a sensible option.
hmmm I'm not sure it is "better". We may have more EV charging spots in the UK and Europe but the fuelling situation is not "just a change of mindset" it is a retrospective step backwards if you plan to cover long distances or charge out in the wild (i.e. no charge spot at home).
For me I enjoy my main family car most when using it on a road trip. I dont want to plan extra wasted hours into my trip or go out of my way to find a charge spot. I dont want to queue 30-45mins for power if I were travelling in say school holidays and I certainly don't want to have to register a thousand apps on my phone to communicate with a charger network or drive with any anxiety that I might not have the right app for the charger. And lastly I don't want to drive in fear that the charge point I do plan to use might not be working or on much lower charge capabilities than I need. That sounds just plain irratating vs drive, stop for 5 mins to refuel, drive and have my free choice whether I decide to take a 10/15/20/30 min break and not becuase my advanced electric car isn't as good as the petrol it replaced in that department. I also don't care if my petrol car takes longer to get to 70 mph or whether it is slightly quieter at 70 mph, neither of those are benefits over hours wasted kicking about waiting for it to charge.
I think EVs are great for popping around local trips and relying on charging at home though, but then so is a my lCE run around. Once the charging situation is sorted with cough Hydrogen cough we'll have the best of both worlds. Can even get those with a manual transmission which is also my preference but I am in the minority there so not really relevant, even on a car enthusiast site.
For me I enjoy my main family car most when using it on a road trip. I dont want to plan extra wasted hours into my trip or go out of my way to find a charge spot. I dont want to queue 30-45mins for power if I were travelling in say school holidays and I certainly don't want to have to register a thousand apps on my phone to communicate with a charger network or drive with any anxiety that I might not have the right app for the charger. And lastly I don't want to drive in fear that the charge point I do plan to use might not be working or on much lower charge capabilities than I need. That sounds just plain irratating vs drive, stop for 5 mins to refuel, drive and have my free choice whether I decide to take a 10/15/20/30 min break and not becuase my advanced electric car isn't as good as the petrol it replaced in that department. I also don't care if my petrol car takes longer to get to 70 mph or whether it is slightly quieter at 70 mph, neither of those are benefits over hours wasted kicking about waiting for it to charge.
I think EVs are great for popping around local trips and relying on charging at home though, but then so is a my lCE run around. Once the charging situation is sorted with cough Hydrogen cough we'll have the best of both worlds. Can even get those with a manual transmission which is also my preference but I am in the minority there so not really relevant, even on a car enthusiast site.
mr_spock said:
For what it's worth, I got a speeding ticket at about 90, which I'd been doing in my rented MPV for a while Looking back it took me 12 hours ish, with 3 stops for fuel, loo and food. No stop took longer than 20 mins. I did arrive home completely exhausted, and developed Covid symptoms the next day.
Adding 3-4 hours would have made it not worth it. The extra cost of renting a Tesla would have been double the cost of the fuel used (ish).
I have plenty of friends, mostly musicians or car guys, who will regularly do long trips to small towns, since that's often where the gigs or cool old cars are. I appreciate you don't do long trips, neither did I in the UK (south coast from Cambridgeshire, 3 hours, all major motorways, would be easy in an EV). I didn't appreciate how big the US is until I moved here, nor how spread out "civilisation" is!
Anyway, not here to bash EVs, we have one and it's good at its job. It also couldn't carry the loads my huge Toyota SUV can manage, and that's fine. So many people here have a car and a truck/SUV for exactly that reason. Just thought I'd share what it's like to have one in the US and just treat it like a car. For the masses for whom a car is a white good, it will be a challenging change of mindset as said earlier.
It's all good, (gosh, I hate that saying, but...) I understand and appreciate your point of view. Looking back it took me 12 hours ish, with 3 stops for fuel, loo and food. No stop took longer than 20 mins. I did arrive home completely exhausted, and developed Covid symptoms the next day. Adding 3-4 hours would have made it not worth it. The extra cost of renting a Tesla would have been double the cost of the fuel used (ish).
I have plenty of friends, mostly musicians or car guys, who will regularly do long trips to small towns, since that's often where the gigs or cool old cars are. I appreciate you don't do long trips, neither did I in the UK (south coast from Cambridgeshire, 3 hours, all major motorways, would be easy in an EV). I didn't appreciate how big the US is until I moved here, nor how spread out "civilisation" is!
Anyway, not here to bash EVs, we have one and it's good at its job. It also couldn't carry the loads my huge Toyota SUV can manage, and that's fine. So many people here have a car and a truck/SUV for exactly that reason. Just thought I'd share what it's like to have one in the US and just treat it like a car. For the masses for whom a car is a white good, it will be a challenging change of mindset as said earlier.
As a 4-year EV owner who's literally driven most of way across the country (US) on a road trip in my EV, in addition to having done a 400-mile trip dozens of times, I fully appreciate the differences and challenges of long-distance EV-ing. I may even done some of each of those trips at 90-ish mph, but not if you're a policeman.
And circling back, a small amount of planning is absolutely required, and when done, minimizes the issues.
Now, as to the horrifying state of the EA network, nobody should really be surprised that a network created:
- at the point of a spear
- by a company who'd never done such a thing before
- apparently WITHOUT any sort of performance guarantee clause
...doesn't work much of the time. It's sad.
Anecdotally, we jumped in our car and drove to the south of Toulouse from Gloucestershire and didn't plan a thing (other than booking a hotel in Rouen with charging).
Learnt a few things along the way, such as all the route planning apps suck and I wouldn't recommend any of them - the on board Audi planner proved most reliable of all (though atill frustrating to use). Where possible chose Ionity chargers which were all very fast and the car would go from 20% to 80% in under ten minutes reliably if the charger was set as a 'charging' destination. With such charging times I ignored all the "charge to 60%" type plans.
On the return leg I also chose to pay by time used, not per KW, after several tests. One failure of an Ionity charger on the way back (north of Paris) severely ate into our spare time and had us doubling back to an audi charger near CDG - this was the closest I got to range anxiety, but it was actually time anxiety. (Incidentally, it was ABRP that my partner was using that was suggesting the Ionity charger, which wasn't showing in the Audi planner and she'd grown fond of Ionity so had insisted we aim for it and skip the CDG 150kw charger.)
Anyway, only one opinion and all, and I expect as EVs become more popular the positive experiences will diminish (haven't had to queue once for a charger yet >7k miles done in 4 months) but so far, for a daily and road trips it has been absolutely perfect.
(note, the 250 miles it will do on 100% is equivalent to all our ICE cars on a full tank, so we're used to stopping for fuel a lot and running around on an empty light).
I still don't have any apps
Learnt a few things along the way, such as all the route planning apps suck and I wouldn't recommend any of them - the on board Audi planner proved most reliable of all (though atill frustrating to use). Where possible chose Ionity chargers which were all very fast and the car would go from 20% to 80% in under ten minutes reliably if the charger was set as a 'charging' destination. With such charging times I ignored all the "charge to 60%" type plans.
On the return leg I also chose to pay by time used, not per KW, after several tests. One failure of an Ionity charger on the way back (north of Paris) severely ate into our spare time and had us doubling back to an audi charger near CDG - this was the closest I got to range anxiety, but it was actually time anxiety. (Incidentally, it was ABRP that my partner was using that was suggesting the Ionity charger, which wasn't showing in the Audi planner and she'd grown fond of Ionity so had insisted we aim for it and skip the CDG 150kw charger.)
Anyway, only one opinion and all, and I expect as EVs become more popular the positive experiences will diminish (haven't had to queue once for a charger yet >7k miles done in 4 months) but so far, for a daily and road trips it has been absolutely perfect.
(note, the 250 miles it will do on 100% is equivalent to all our ICE cars on a full tank, so we're used to stopping for fuel a lot and running around on an empty light).
I still don't have any apps
Zcd1 said:
mr_spock said:
Thanks for the tip! Plugshare shows all chargers, but happy to try anything! We started from home, zip is 27302.
1 hour and 14 minutes of total charging time, 456-mile round trip, starting at 80% SOC:https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=4d318b1...
Even if you drove 50 miles in and around Myrtle Beach, that would only add about 20 minutes to your total charging time...
Edited by Zcd1 on Tuesday 6th September 20:59
With a model 3 standard range it's only half the charging time (also setting off with 80% charge)
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=1b21e36...
HelldogBE said:
Zcd1 said:
mr_spock said:
Thanks for the tip! Plugshare shows all chargers, but happy to try anything! We started from home, zip is 27302.
1 hour and 14 minutes of total charging time, 456-mile round trip, starting at 80% SOC:https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=4d318b1...
Even if you drove 50 miles in and around Myrtle Beach, that would only add about 20 minutes to your total charging time...
Edited by Zcd1 on Tuesday 6th September 20:59
With a model 3 standard range it's only half the charging time (also setting off with 80% charge)
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=1b21e36...
mr_spock said:
How many cars would you suggest I have? With ANY ICE car it would have been easy. It’s my wife’s car, she didn’t like the M3’s cost, driving position and probably Elon Musk (might be a joke but I wouldn’t be surprised). I tried a Model S and also didn’t like the driving position. Can’t afford an X.
We’ve already established that a lack of preparation was the primary cause of your road trip difficulties. It’s absolutely a fact that road-tripping an EV requires planning.
Waking up to a full battery each morning is a huge advantage, and one you (she) enjoys every day that DOESN’T include a road trip (read: 99% of the time).
If the “inconvenience” of planning out a road trip is more than you’re willing to accept, then it’s a shame that you’ve found yourself in that position. That said, your unfortunate experience doesn’t mean that EVs are untenable for most people.
Twitter Dan Trent said:
FFS, doesn’t get any better. 218 miles to destination with limited charging, 222 showing on range. First services charger blocked by awful parking, stopped for lunch at next but it conked after 5kWh, third had queue, now at fourth and dribbling at fraction of claimed 120kW. Bah.
That’s standard journalist EV review word soup right there. But he does have a point.OP had trouble because every EV driver not driving a Tesla needs time to get used to the charging ‘system’. Time to plan, time to get the right cards, apps etc. Every EV should have a proper route planning app with rerouting and live availability. Teslas system just works, but that’s because the chargers also work.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff