So who's getting an i3?
Discussion
This could make things get interesting...
http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air...
A non rechargeable, but swappable aluminium air battery that would give you 1000 mile range.
Designed as a range extender for the occasional long trip not as a primary power store - it actually "eats" the aluminium as a fuel. Works out about 9p a mile given current costs. Bit cheaper than unleaded but not much - which is why topping up the Li-Ions should still be the main power source.
Like all tech - I'd be suspicious of the expected commercial ship date. Fuel cells were meant to be "commercially available" by 2004. This usually means to OEMs in limited quantities for say their current EV production capacity as an optional extra. So 100 or 200 units a year maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong and by 2017 all EVs will have one, with 1 in every 10 service stations having a shelf full of them for you to drop in the boot when the old one is used up. Weighing about the same as a bag of sand 27kg, should be just about manageable for most people.
http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air...
A non rechargeable, but swappable aluminium air battery that would give you 1000 mile range.
Designed as a range extender for the occasional long trip not as a primary power store - it actually "eats" the aluminium as a fuel. Works out about 9p a mile given current costs. Bit cheaper than unleaded but not much - which is why topping up the Li-Ions should still be the main power source.
Like all tech - I'd be suspicious of the expected commercial ship date. Fuel cells were meant to be "commercially available" by 2004. This usually means to OEMs in limited quantities for say their current EV production capacity as an optional extra. So 100 or 200 units a year maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong and by 2017 all EVs will have one, with 1 in every 10 service stations having a shelf full of them for you to drop in the boot when the old one is used up. Weighing about the same as a bag of sand 27kg, should be just about manageable for most people.
TransverseTight said:
This could make things get interesting...
http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air...
A non rechargeable, but swappable aluminium air battery that would give you 1000 mile range.
Designed as a range extender for the occasional long trip not as a primary power store - it actually "eats" the aluminium as a fuel. Works out about 9p a mile given current costs. Bit cheaper than unleaded but not much - which is why topping up the Li-Ions should still be the main power source.
Like all tech - I'd be suspicious of the expected commercial ship date. Fuel cells were meant to be "commercially available" by 2004. This usually means to OEMs in limited quantities for say their current EV production capacity as an optional extra. So 100 or 200 units a year maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong and by 2017 all EVs will have one, with 1 in every 10 service stations having a shelf full of them for you to drop in the boot when the old one is used up. Weighing about the same as a bag of sand 27kg, should be just about manageable for most people.
There was some press a little while ago about Tesla pursuing/patenting this kind of technology. They were touting it as a battery/battery hybrid with both a normal battery and range extender pack.http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air...
A non rechargeable, but swappable aluminium air battery that would give you 1000 mile range.
Designed as a range extender for the occasional long trip not as a primary power store - it actually "eats" the aluminium as a fuel. Works out about 9p a mile given current costs. Bit cheaper than unleaded but not much - which is why topping up the Li-Ions should still be the main power source.
Like all tech - I'd be suspicious of the expected commercial ship date. Fuel cells were meant to be "commercially available" by 2004. This usually means to OEMs in limited quantities for say their current EV production capacity as an optional extra. So 100 or 200 units a year maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong and by 2017 all EVs will have one, with 1 in every 10 service stations having a shelf full of them for you to drop in the boot when the old one is used up. Weighing about the same as a bag of sand 27kg, should be just about manageable for most people.
TransverseTight said:
This could make things get interesting...
http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air...
A non rechargeable, but swappable aluminium air battery that would give you 1000 mile range.
Designed as a range extender for the occasional long trip not as a primary power store - it actually "eats" the aluminium as a fuel. Works out about 9p a mile given current costs. Bit cheaper than unleaded but not much - which is why topping up the Li-Ions should still be the main power source.
Like all tech - I'd be suspicious of the expected commercial ship date. Fuel cells were meant to be "commercially available" by 2004. This usually means to OEMs in limited quantities for say their current EV production capacity as an optional extra. So 100 or 200 units a year maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong and by 2017 all EVs will have one, with 1 in every 10 service stations having a shelf full of them for you to drop in the boot when the old one is used up. Weighing about the same as a bag of sand 27kg, should be just about manageable for most people.
If you have to top up with water every 200 miles and replace the 50 aluminium plates at 1000 then why not create it in such a way that you use fewer plates, say just 10 and you replace these yourself?http://phys.org/news/2013-03-phinergy-aluminum-air...
A non rechargeable, but swappable aluminium air battery that would give you 1000 mile range.
Designed as a range extender for the occasional long trip not as a primary power store - it actually "eats" the aluminium as a fuel. Works out about 9p a mile given current costs. Bit cheaper than unleaded but not much - which is why topping up the Li-Ions should still be the main power source.
Like all tech - I'd be suspicious of the expected commercial ship date. Fuel cells were meant to be "commercially available" by 2004. This usually means to OEMs in limited quantities for say their current EV production capacity as an optional extra. So 100 or 200 units a year maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong and by 2017 all EVs will have one, with 1 in every 10 service stations having a shelf full of them for you to drop in the boot when the old one is used up. Weighing about the same as a bag of sand 27kg, should be just about manageable for most people.
What's the tech that stops you buying standard sized plates from anywhere on the highstreet and 'refilling' your tank every 200 miles etc?
Carparticus said:
DonkeyApple said:
Stuartggray said:
What are these pure EVs like when stuck on a motorway for hours because an HVG has jack knifed in a blizzard? How warm do they keep, and for how long?
Someone did the maths of the kW drain by the heater v the kW capacity of the battery and worked out that it would be good for a day or so. Seemed to imply that it would be better to get stuck in an EV than an ICE. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Summary - The EV motor isn't doing anything when the car is stationary. The energy drain of having all ancillaries on is a few percent of available battery capacity, maybe using it at the rate of 1 kwh when the battery is likely to be a 20-30kwh pack. Hence you could probably sit out a 24hr traffic jam if need be .... The interior heaters are usually ceramic elements or similar and provide near instant heat. But, as with petrol cars, once your 'tank' is finally empty, you're stuffed, so dont entertain a long distance motorway drive in an EV unless you have topped it up, or can get to any motorway service station most of which now have a range of high powered / fast charge points.
BMW offer a heat pump as an option, which will reduce draw.
Amateurish said:
I think you've underestimated the draw of the electric heater. On a Nissan Leaf, the heater can draw between 1.5-4.5kW and seriously reduce range. So in fact with the heater on and stationary, you would probably drain your entire battery in less than 10 hours (not including lights, radio etc).
BMW offer a heat pump as an option, which will reduce draw.
I haven't ordered a heat pump for mine because I don't really understand what it is. My limited understanding is that it can be used to heat the car while it's still connected to the mains. What I don't understand is why the normal heater can't do that - or can it?BMW offer a heat pump as an option, which will reduce draw.
I have ordered the 'winter pack' which provides heated seats and battery pre-warming.
Very interested if anybody can shed more light on this.
I asked the dealer the exact same question, why do I need another heater for when it is plugged, why not use the heater installed. He had no idea.
My limited knowledge thoughts are the heater needs to run off the very high voltage battery pack and the mains plug is not powerful enough to run it.
My limited knowledge thoughts are the heater needs to run off the very high voltage battery pack and the mains plug is not powerful enough to run it.
RossP said:
TimJMS said:
Atommad said:
I thought there were no DC fast charging stations yet? That's what I was told by the BMW dealer, so the DC charge option is a gamble on the future. Is this correct?
If you lease it, DC charging though 500 odd quid to the cash buyer works out as a zero cost extra. I guess Beemer are looking 3 years down the line.RossP said:
I haven't ordered a heat pump for mine because I don't really understand what it is. My limited understanding is that it can be used to heat the car while it's still connected to the mains. What I don't understand is why the normal heater can't do that - or can it?
I have ordered the 'winter pack' which provides heated seats and battery pre-warming.
Very interested if anybody can shed more light on this.
The heat pump is much more efficient for heating, and so will increase range, especially in cold weather. I have ordered the 'winter pack' which provides heated seats and battery pre-warming.
Very interested if anybody can shed more light on this.
It can't be ordered in conjunction with the REX - they occupy the same physical space.
Amateurish said:
The heat pump is much more efficient for heating, and so will increase range, especially in cold weather.
It can't be ordered in conjunction with the REX - they occupy the same physical space.
Apparently the heat pump is only used for pre-heating, which will obviously save some battery power. Just been on to BMW online support:It can't be ordered in conjunction with the REX - they occupy the same physical space.
Matt: 10:33:39 Yes, it's function is to purely heat the cabin temperature to the desired level. The benefits are that you can pre heat the cabin whilst your vehicle is plugged in on charge, which minimises the use of electric whilst driving and thus increases the range. Please give me a moment to look into the length of time it takes to heat up without the heat pump.
10:45:33 Thank you for your patience Ross, Without the Heat Pump, the BMW i3 will take around the same time as a conventional vehicle as the vehicle needs to generate the heat. We do not have any set times though.
RossP said:
Apparently the heat pump is only used for pre-heating, which will obviously save some battery power. Just been on to BMW online support:
Matt: 10:33:39 Yes, it's function is to purely heat the cabin temperature to the desired level. The benefits are that you can pre heat the cabin whilst your vehicle is plugged in on charge, which minimises the use of electric whilst driving and thus increases the range. Please give me a moment to look into the length of time it takes to heat up without the heat pump.
10:45:33 Thank you for your patience Ross, Without the Heat Pump, the BMW i3 will take around the same time as a conventional vehicle as the vehicle needs to generate the heat. We do not have any set times though.
Well, I'm confused now. I thought that you could pre-heat without the heat pump!Matt: 10:33:39 Yes, it's function is to purely heat the cabin temperature to the desired level. The benefits are that you can pre heat the cabin whilst your vehicle is plugged in on charge, which minimises the use of electric whilst driving and thus increases the range. Please give me a moment to look into the length of time it takes to heat up without the heat pump.
10:45:33 Thank you for your patience Ross, Without the Heat Pump, the BMW i3 will take around the same time as a conventional vehicle as the vehicle needs to generate the heat. We do not have any set times though.
Seems ridiculous that you can't pre-heat with the REX. In the Volt, this is certainly possible.
From a quick google, there is some confusion, e.g.
"-Yes, you can certainly precondition the cabin (heat or cool) and the battery even if you have the REx. (Two people from the UK asked me this so evidently there is inaccurate info somewhere there)"
http://bmwi3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/the-la-auto-sh...
From a quick google, there is some confusion, e.g.
"-Yes, you can certainly precondition the cabin (heat or cool) and the battery even if you have the REx. (Two people from the UK asked me this so evidently there is inaccurate info somewhere there)"
http://bmwi3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/the-la-auto-sh...
That is confusing. Obviously if you can pre-heat with Rex, there is no reason why you can't preheat without a heat pump in an electric only model.
Also, from that same link:
-Heated seats are optional, and this was a bit of a head scratcher: You can't precondition the passenger cabin with heat unless you get the seat heater option. I don't get that at all, but that's the way it is. Anyone who lives in an area that has cold temperatures during the year simply must get the heated seats option in my opinion or they will regret it later.
Also, from that same link:
-Heated seats are optional, and this was a bit of a head scratcher: You can't precondition the passenger cabin with heat unless you get the seat heater option. I don't get that at all, but that's the way it is. Anyone who lives in an area that has cold temperatures during the year simply must get the heated seats option in my opinion or they will regret it later.
Edited by RossP on Tuesday 26th November 11:27
Amateurish said:
Seems ridiculous that you can't pre-heat with the REX. In the Volt, this is certainly possible.
From a quick google, there is some confusion, e.g.
"-Yes, you can certainly precondition the cabin (heat or cool) and the battery even if you have the REx. (Two people from the UK asked me this so evidently there is inaccurate info somewhere there)"
http://bmwi3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/the-la-auto-sh...
I was one of the two 'UK people' who asked Tom to try and find out an accurate answer about this from the Active-E event in LA because I knew they were going to have a chance to speak to BMW engineers. It's been a confusing topic ever since the brochure came out which is ambiguous and I've previously had conflicting info from BMW about it.From a quick google, there is some confusion, e.g.
"-Yes, you can certainly precondition the cabin (heat or cool) and the battery even if you have the REx. (Two people from the UK asked me this so evidently there is inaccurate info somewhere there)"
http://bmwi3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/the-la-auto-sh...
At the same time as asking Tom this question last week I also emailed my dealer and asked him to go check if he can pre-heat their REx car next time it was charging. He replied saying he will but their car "hadn't been set up yet" which I presumed meant registering it with the app needed to start the pre-heat.
Another snippet on this topic is that a BMW engineer at the LA event told them that the heat pump is very small and is installed at the front of the car i.e. not where the REx goes.
Back online to BMW. Highlights are:
11:53:45 Are you 100% certain that no pre-heating of the car is available without the heat pump, but with the winter pack as there seems to be a lot of conflicting information on the internet.
12:02:53 The information provided by Mat is correct, the heat pump is required for the fully electric vehicle to heat the cabin of the BMW i3.
12:05:29 Can you preheat a Rex car?
Stewart: 12:12:43 I am just collating information on the possibility of pre-heating a REx vehicle. However, Cold Weather Preparation comprises a heat pump for pre-heating the cabin temperature for improved comfort.
11:53:45 Are you 100% certain that no pre-heating of the car is available without the heat pump, but with the winter pack as there seems to be a lot of conflicting information on the internet.
12:02:53 The information provided by Mat is correct, the heat pump is required for the fully electric vehicle to heat the cabin of the BMW i3.
12:05:29 Can you preheat a Rex car?
Stewart: 12:12:43 I am just collating information on the possibility of pre-heating a REx vehicle. However, Cold Weather Preparation comprises a heat pump for pre-heating the cabin temperature for improved comfort.
Edited by RossP on Tuesday 26th November 12:14
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