Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
KimJongHealthy said:
EVs get free parking, full charge overnight would cost us few pounds and the range is more than enough for daily return journey. There's also 0 tax, no oil changes, no exhaust to rot, no coolant to replace, no £500 timing belt service, no valves to adjust..
....plus DPFs to block, EGRs to seize, timing to chains to stretch, auto gearboxes to slip, clutch to wear, oil seals to leak, headgaskets to go, plugs to replace, injectors to leakback, air hoses to leak, turbos to wear, intercoolers to go pop, O2 sensors not to heat....Of course, an electric car brings a new set of things to go wrong but there is still a heck of a lot of stuff which still seems to go on today's ICE which really shouldn't by now.
EricE said:
This may well be, Musk always stated that he founded Tesla soley to force the industry into building cars that run on renewable energy. To his surprise it takes the old industry much longer to react than he expected, so now he's building a mass product. He never intended to compete with the big ones.
Decent looking car by the way.
I suspect if you showed those pictures to the average non-petrolhead they would think it was the new Aston ... (you would be surprised how many would't notice the rear doors - I knew a girl who didn't even realise her 94-98 323F was a five door!)Decent looking car by the way.
http://i.imgur.com/jpwZXQX.jpg
confused_buyer said:
KimJongHealthy said:
EVs get free parking, full charge overnight would cost us few pounds and the range is more than enough for daily return journey. There's also 0 tax, no oil changes, no exhaust to rot, no coolant to replace, no £500 timing belt service, no valves to adjust..
....plus DPFs to block, EGRs to seize, timing to chains to stretch, auto gearboxes to slip, clutch to wear, oil seals to leak, headgaskets to go, plugs to replace, injectors to leakback, air hoses to leak, turbos to wear, intercoolers to go pop, O2 sensors not to heat....Of course, an electric car brings a new set of things to go wrong but there is still a heck of a lot of stuff which still seems to go on today's ICE which really shouldn't by now.
Like the LCD tv/monitor, only because the technology wasnt there did we have CRT's, which required more energy, were huge with comparatively small screens, we watched a 14 inch portable at my wifes aunts the other day and you wonder how you watched anything on them, anyway, years of development went into the CRT to improve it, and then when LCD technology arrived it got dropped like a dog s
t encrusted training shoe, to the point us seeing one in the wild the other day was almost nostalgic.There will be a need for IC engines for certain applications for a long time, but this is still early days for EV's and cars are bigger, more expensive items than TV's, but most still last ten years or so, at some point we will get to a tipping point where EV's outsell IC engined cars, for TV's that was 2007, now, nine years later, nobody has a CRT (apart from grannies, oddballs and people who dont really watch tv)
I reckon we are ten years off the tipping point, possibly a little sooner, then ten years after that, IC cars will be dead in the water except for niche usage.
The tech will improve and the negative factors will be mitigated, then all of a sudden, IC cars will start dropping like flies as they will seem expensive and antiquated.
This Tesla is like that early 40 inch LCD you paid two grand for, still works but looks really clunky with a three inch bezel, imagine where they get to in ten years seeing as they havent even been going ten years thus far, eight years ago they were sticking motors in Lotus Elises, now they have a three model range of scratch designed and built cars, this is a Nokia vs Apple moment.
confused_buyer said:
KimJongHealthy said:
EVs get free parking, full charge overnight would cost us few pounds and the range is more than enough for daily return journey. There's also 0 tax, no oil changes, no exhaust to rot, no coolant to replace, no £500 timing belt service, no valves to adjust..
....plus DPFs to block, EGRs to seize, timing to chains to stretch, auto gearboxes to slip, clutch to wear, oil seals to leak, headgaskets to go, plugs to replace, injectors to leakback, air hoses to leak, turbos to wear, intercoolers to go pop, O2 sensors not to heat....Of course, an electric car brings a new set of things to go wrong but there is still a heck of a lot of stuff which still seems to go on today's ICE which really shouldn't by now.
I also had a fuel pump go a few years back. £350 in parts, and the fuel tank has to come out
KimJongHealthy said:
And with the supercharger network expanding I could easily stop for a coffee every 200 miles when going on holiday.
That should be laugh at 6.30 pm on bank holiday Friday when 5,000 cars are all trying to stop for a coffee and a 30 minute recharge at the same motorway service area....98elise said:
Not to mention how expensive simple stuff has become. I've been unlucky enough to have two clutches go in recent years (different cars). Ford wanted £1k to do my mondeo!!!!
I also had a fuel pump go a few years back. £350 in parts, and the fuel tank has to come out
The whole existing car industry has been due a shake up for decades. Honestly, some manufacturers are living in about 1930 with their approach to customers and the quality of their products.I also had a fuel pump go a few years back. £350 in parts, and the fuel tank has to come out
The idea that if you buy an expensive car, "you should expect big bills" is one of the most ridiculous arguments unique to the car industry. If you buy a £70k car it is apparently "fine" for it to deliver a £4k bill for some badly designed bit of rubbish in it to fail at 70k miles and 5 years old where as more than likely a £10k car will be just fine. The car industry is one where the more you pay, the more rubbish the customer should expect the basic design to be.
I think people who don't live with an EV and moan about range etc aren't really getting the additional practicality that EV charging offers - no more petrol station visits!
If a petrol or diesel car had a 100 mile or 200 mile range it would be a pain in the arse as almost everyday you'd be waiting in line with all those poor folk getting their hands dirty and trying to avoid buying 2 double deckers for a £1.
But with EVs I don't mix with the unwashed I privately charge my car at home 90% of the time and when I'm on longer days I stop when I want a coffee and a charge. Only twice have a detoured only to charge and that's in my 24kw Leaf. When I'm doing 100+ mile journeys usually I charge at the destination and rarely do 100+ miles in a single direction so my 75 mile Leaf is fine. (Anywhere over that I use the train or plane)
For those who can honestly look at their last month of driving and count at least a couple of days a week that you do over 100 miles in a single day (in one direction) then maybe wait a bit.
If you are doing 100miles+ a day, every day, then change your job :-) but even then you'll be sorted when you buy a used Model S in 2018 for £17k...
If a petrol or diesel car had a 100 mile or 200 mile range it would be a pain in the arse as almost everyday you'd be waiting in line with all those poor folk getting their hands dirty and trying to avoid buying 2 double deckers for a £1.
But with EVs I don't mix with the unwashed I privately charge my car at home 90% of the time and when I'm on longer days I stop when I want a coffee and a charge. Only twice have a detoured only to charge and that's in my 24kw Leaf. When I'm doing 100+ mile journeys usually I charge at the destination and rarely do 100+ miles in a single direction so my 75 mile Leaf is fine. (Anywhere over that I use the train or plane)
For those who can honestly look at their last month of driving and count at least a couple of days a week that you do over 100 miles in a single day (in one direction) then maybe wait a bit.
If you are doing 100miles+ a day, every day, then change your job :-) but even then you'll be sorted when you buy a used Model S in 2018 for £17k...
confused_buyer said:
The whole existing car industry has been due a shake up for decades. Honestly, some manufacturers are living in about 1930 with their approach to customers and the quality of their products.
The idea that if you buy an expensive car, "you should expect big bills" is one of the most ridiculous arguments unique to the car industry. If you buy a £70k car it is apparently "fine" for it to deliver a £4k bill for some badly designed bit of rubbish in it to fail at 70k miles and 5 years old where as more than likely a £10k car will be just fine. The car industry is one where the more you pay, the more rubbish the customer should expect the basic design to be.
Completely agree but that is about to change. The idea that if you buy an expensive car, "you should expect big bills" is one of the most ridiculous arguments unique to the car industry. If you buy a £70k car it is apparently "fine" for it to deliver a £4k bill for some badly designed bit of rubbish in it to fail at 70k miles and 5 years old where as more than likely a £10k car will be just fine. The car industry is one where the more you pay, the more rubbish the customer should expect the basic design to be.
Tesla just announced this and what does VW have up their sleeves? A face-lifted Mk 7 Golf GTD for the same price. Almost embarrassing in comparison to this.
I can't find any definite info on prices or release dates for Norway but the website is taking 10,000kr deposits.
With the Model S being Norway's best selling EV I would expect this if it's priced competetively to compete with the VW eGolf/Nissan Leaf/BMW i3 it will sell like hotcakes especially with the proposed range being nearly 3 times better than the rest!
I'm so tempted as the benefits here are very good, toll free roads, free ferry routes, no yearly tax, charge points everywhere and dedicated driving lanes.
With the Model S being Norway's best selling EV I would expect this if it's priced competetively to compete with the VW eGolf/Nissan Leaf/BMW i3 it will sell like hotcakes especially with the proposed range being nearly 3 times better than the rest!
I'm so tempted as the benefits here are very good, toll free roads, free ferry routes, no yearly tax, charge points everywhere and dedicated driving lanes.
PKLD said:
I think people who don't live with an EV and moan about range etc aren't really getting the additional practicality that EV charging offers - no more petrol station visits!
I now buy my screenwash at the supermarket. It is ace passing the petrol station every single day seeing the queues for petrol that I just don't need anymore. (At least, not as often...)
Don said:
PKLD said:
I think people who don't live with an EV and moan about range etc aren't really getting the additional practicality that EV charging offers - no more petrol station visits!
I now buy my screenwash at the supermarket. It is ace passing the petrol station every single day seeing the queues for petrol that I just don't need anymore. (At least, not as often...)
But, interesting to bypass the petrol station thing we have been chained to for years.
Imagine the charging stations will all be coffee shops soon.
J4CKO said:
This Tesla is like that early 40 inch LCD you paid two grand for, still works but looks really clunky with a three inch bezel, imagine where they get to in ten years seeing as they havent even been going ten years thus far, eight years ago they were sticking motors in Lotus Elises, now they have a three model range of scratch designed and built cars, this is a Nokia vs Apple moment.
Exactly. It's fantastic the pace of change, and you can see the future from here (if you squint). Musk's ability to deliver is stunning - and I'm sure it's made a few car executives feel quite uncomfortable.However as you rightly point out, this specific car isn't the second coming. Given the pace of change, even if you plan to chop it in in a couple of years, it will be outdated tech. That's ignoring the challenge of going from 50,000 cars a year to 500,000 with an entirely new model. For those who must have the latest shiny-shiny, it's cool, but this isn't the point that makes me want to jump on the bandwagon.
Still Meh on the styling too - someone mentioned Aston(!?) but it's just as much Hyundai to me.
The other issue here is the long term viability of all the 'perks' that get mentioned. Free parking and no fuel tax are only there as incentives to encourage new entrants. Once it goes mainstream (and it will, fast), those incentives will be withdrawn. I was in a car-park the other day and admiring the two free charging points (one in use, one being used by a mum with a toddler and a very old school Metro). That was in a car park of around a thousand cars. The moment usage goes up, things get a lot less convenient. Charging at home isn't necessarily any better - we're faced with brown-outs at the moment due to shortage in generation capacity. When EVs really take off, there will be some interesting challenges facing the government and electricity supply companies. You might see rules where you have to accept that your car might be partially discharged back into the grid during peak times, or specific times when you cannot charge.
None of this is the end of the world, none of this means this isn't an excellent step forward. All of these problems will be overcome. However, I'd rather let other people work their way through them first.
stephen300o said:
Don said:
PKLD said:
I think people who don't live with an EV and moan about range etc aren't really getting the additional practicality that EV charging offers - no more petrol station visits!
I now buy my screenwash at the supermarket. It is ace passing the petrol station every single day seeing the queues for petrol that I just don't need anymore. (At least, not as often...)
But, interesting to bypass the petrol station thing we have been chained to for years.
Imagine the charging stations will all be coffee shops soon.
I like 're-fueling' where I go, not where the fuel is. Once people realise how nice it is to wake up, pre-heat the car from your phone, and head off with a full 'tank' every morning it will be hard to go back to going somewhere to find fuel.
This is why hydrogen will struggle against EVs for the daily drivers, commuting etc. Sales reps and haulage will move to hydrogen as they can re-fuel at depots and those old fashioned fuel-stations ;-)
PKLD said:
I like 're-fueling' where I go, not where the fuel is. Once people realise how nice it is to wake up, pre-heat the car from your phone, and head off with a full 'tank' every morning it will be hard to go back to going somewhere to find fuel.
Do people really find refuelling that traumatic?I drive a Golf TDi which gets about 55mpg and I have a 40 mile/day commute so on average I fill up once a fortnight.
It's just not a concern and I'd imagine I do reasonably miles compared to a lot of people.
Tbh I really fancy an EV but I've been put off by "range anxiety" simply because with a petrol/diesel you can usually jump in and not have to think too much about where you're going and what time you'll get there and how long you're going to spend there.
If I want to go somewhere 100 miles away I don't know of too many (mainstream affordable) EVs I can buy today that will get me there and get me back without forcing me to stick around a good while at a charging station if there is a charging station.
It may be easier once they're more mainstream but once they're more mainstream I'd assume charging points will become more like the queue on the garage forecourt.
Piersman2 said:
Tesla are being clever here and tying people into orders for a vehicle which will be fighting in a market about to be flooded by the usual suspect car manufacturers in the next few years.
The technology to build electric cars is now approaching 300 miles on a single charge, this is the tipping point for the big boys and they are all racing to release their own electric vehicles over the next few years.
Tesla will be dead in 5-10 years time as the big boys start releasing their own EVs and use scales of production to push down prices.
I certainly think that just as we've seen before in certain markets, the key players are sitting back and letting Musk and his backers firstly prove the market for EVs exists and then to start creating it to the point of genuine commercial viability. At that point, as we see time and time again in industry, the long standing major players will simply build a big factory and join the market at the profitability stage of the evolution rather than the embryonic. The technology to build electric cars is now approaching 300 miles on a single charge, this is the tipping point for the big boys and they are all racing to release their own electric vehicles over the next few years.
Tesla will be dead in 5-10 years time as the big boys start releasing their own EVs and use scales of production to push down prices.
It is quite common for the pioneer to not survive that point, as you point out, but Musk has seemingly placed his attempt to head that huge risk off by controlling significant elements of the infrastructure. Ie he has built the largest EV battery factory in the planet, has forged the key ties with the Chinese who control the South American lithium mines and is building his global charging network.
The latter is quite important as there are only so many gaps for charging stations and the reality is that manufacturers are going to have to club together to take on Musk's network.
Thankyou4calling said:
That's a great point about partnership businesses having a charging point.
I'd have one like a shot, increased footfall of high net worth owners with plenty of disposable for 30 minutes.
There is also absolutely no shortage of older people with empty driveways and a desire for income. I'd have one like a shot, increased footfall of high net worth owners with plenty of disposable for 30 minutes.
There will never be a shortage of charging points as it will be so incredibly easy to monetise almost any parking space.
98elise said:
Thankyou4calling said:
DonkeyApple said:
Missing the point. You're just joining the latest craze. Once the buzz dies down and the next bit of excitement replaces it then many will just take the money back and move on. They might not realise it but they have absolutely no intention of actually buying a car, just being part of a live craze for a while.
That's right.There are a lot of people who will never complete the purchase.
Paying the deposit gives them bragging rights, e mails from Elon, perhaps the odd goody bag and they will feel they are a part of the magic.
If the deposits were NON refundable you'd see the real believers.
With interest rates so low they aren't losing anything and Tesla get a lot of cashflow to use for the price of an e mail.
I suspect plenty of the early people to jump in will drop out but I don't think it will impact the total number.
It's like the professional shoppers who spend all day buying goods and the next day taking them back. There is a massive new phenomenon in the West around this weird behaviour.
As soon as one of these people stops getting any attention from their announcements about what they are doing then they will ask for their money back. Or as they get closer to April payday and the exuberance of March's payback has long gone and the bills have been hammering the account or the card payments are due.
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