First experience of a longer trip with an EV

[WestyCarl]

andy43 said:

That’s standard journalist EV review word soup right there. But he does have a point.
OP had trouble because every EV driver not driving a Tesla needs time to get used to the charging ‘system’. Time to plan, time to get the right cards, apps etc. Every EV should have a proper route planning app with rerouting and live availability. Teslas system just works, but that’s because the chargers also work.

Agree. This summer I went from UK to Austria (900+miles) in a model 3 with no foward planning other than putting the destination in the Sat Nav and the trip was easy.

Even when making charging stops not specificed by the Nav it just adjusted. No sort of anxiety at all.

[Bannock]

F20CN16 said:

andy43 said:

That’s standard journalist EV review word soup right there. But he does have a point.
OP had trouble because every EV driver not driving a Tesla needs time to get used to the charging ‘system’. Time to plan, time to get the right cards, apps etc. Every EV should have a proper route planning app with rerouting and live availability. Teslas system just works, but that’s because the chargers also work.

I think one thing that would really help is if people stopped recommending “a better route planner”. Last time I used it it recommended 3 charge stops when 1 would have sufficed. It severely underestimates the range of non-Tesla EVs. Having a charger available is the biggest fear of long distance travelling. Why would “ABRP” recommend tripling the fear of not arriving to a free charger. Bonkers.

Absolutely agree on ABRP. I know the range of my car in any given circumstance, I know how much contingency I like to plan in, therefore I'm best placed to plan the route and charge stops. I find the charge stops on Zap Map, then just use my standard satnav (Google maps on my phone). ABRP is, exactly as you say, terrible at estimating my range, and also recommends obscure chargers whilst ignoring the best placed ones. It's weird and I've binned it.

[Blue62]

Bannock said:

Absolutely agree on ABRP. I know the range of my car in any given circumstance, I know how much contingency I like to plan in, therefore I'm best placed to plan the route and charge stops. I find the charge stops on Zap Map, then just use my standard satnav (Google maps on my phone). ABRP is, exactly as you say, terrible at estimating my range, and also recommends obscure chargers whilst ignoring the best placed ones. It's weird and I've binned it.

It’s strange, I’ve a mate with a T3 who swears by ABRP, he’s been in his car for 2 years and has been giving me advice as I await the not so imminent arrival of my Taycan. It all adds to the anxiety even though I doubt I’ll need to use public charging more than a dozen times a year, save for holidays. It’s a confusing and muddled picture for a newby.

[Blue62]

F20CN16 said:

Assuming T3 means Tesla Model 3? I’m not that much of a cynic, but it so obviously favours Tesla that I am very suspicious about whether it’s deliberate to make other cars look bad. Do not use it when you get your Taycan. Get zap map and tell it you have a Taycan, then plan your route yourself.

Yes it is a Tesla, interesting comment and if my Taycan ever arrives I will give zap map a go.

[Zcd1]

Bannock said:

… ABRP is, exactly as you say, terrible at estimating my range, and also recommends obscure chargers whilst ignoring the best placed ones. It's weird and I've binned it.

You do realize that ABRP allows the user to set myriad parameters to better align with your desired trip parameters, right? It defaults to showing the quickest way from point A to point B, and that can mean more short stops rather than a fewer number of longer stops. If you prefer fewer stops (even if that means a longer total trip time), then simply set the trip parameters accordingly.

It also allows the user to adjust the actual KWH usage (per KM/per Mile) if its default settings don’t match your car’s real world average.
While the interface is a bit quirky, I can’t see how it could be called “terrible” when it’s so flexible and versatile.

Edited by Zcd1 on Thursday 8th September 12:59

[Bannock]

Zcd1 said:

Bannock said:

… ABRP is, exactly as you say, terrible at estimating my range, and also recommends obscure chargers whilst ignoring the best placed ones. It's weird and I've binned it.

You do realize that ABRP allows the user to set myriad parameters to better align with your desired trip parameters, right? It defaults to showing the quickest way from point A to point B, and that can mean more short stops rather than a fewer number of longer stops. If you prefer fewer stops (even if that means a longer total trip time), then simply set the trip parameters accordingly.

It also allows the user to adjust the actual KWH usage (per KM/per Mile) if its default settings don’t match your car’s real world average.
While the interface is a bit quirky, I can’t see how it could be called “terrible” when it’s so flexible and versatile.

Edited by Zcd1 on Thursday 8th September 12:59

Yes I've played around endlessly with it, and it's never been able to match my own route planning, and sometimes there are "parameters" which would matter to me but that could never be accommodated by a bit of software, in my humble opinion of course. So it's an over-engineered waste of time in my book. Others may find it useful and beneficial, fill your boots. But it's not for me.

What I said was that it is terrible at estimating "my" range. I didn't say it was "terrible" in the absolute sense.

I've tried it and I'm happier with Zap Map, Google Maps and my own eyeball/seat of pants.

Just as an aside, and in a spirit of friendliness, your posts are coming across as a bit patronising and passive aggressive. Might be a nicer place to be without that. Just my two bob. We're all different and have different ways of going about things, according to our own preference.

[mr_spock]

Zcd1 said:

mr_spock said:

How many cars would you suggest I have? With ANY ICE car it would have been easy. It’s my wife’s car, she didn’t like the M3’s cost, driving position and probably Elon Musk (might be a joke but I wouldn’t be surprised). I tried a Model S and also didn’t like the driving position. Can’t afford an X.

We’ve already established that a lack of preparation was the primary cause of your road trip difficulties.
It’s absolutely a fact that road-tripping an EV requires planning.
Waking up to a full battery each morning is a huge advantage, and one you (she) enjoys every day that DOESN’T include a road trip (read: 99% of the time).
If the “inconvenience” of planning out a road trip is more than you’re willing to accept, then it’s a shame that you’ve found yourself in that position. That said, your unfortunate experience doesn’t mean that EVs are untenable for most people.

My comment was slightly tounge-in-cheek. As a car guy, any excuse to buy another will do!

I would somewhat disagree that lack of preparation was the root cause. I did indeed think about it, but didn't want to do the "man thing" and start planning in detail and "take over" the trip. I did suggest she charge to 100% the night before, which she did, but it didn't work - the car reverted to 80% default and we still don't understand why it did that. Then, after 35 mins at the fast charger where we had lunch, a combination of boredom and wanting to get to meet our friends no more than an hour later than agreed had us setting off again. And we also left home in plenty of time, but needed to hand over to the house/pet sitter. There was also some unexpected traffic, the temp was very high so the AC was having to cool quite a bit, and so on.

I like the ID.4. It's a bit "meh" as a car, but it works nicely. I don't like the need to plan so far ahead. Last night she forgot to plug her car in because reasons, so this morning only had 68% - and that only because I'd plugged it in when she got home for an hour or so. Owning an EV requires some discipline which ICE cars don't need, and although I'm a detail freak and would be fine with it, for general acceptance I suspect it would be a challenge which only more, faster chargers will overcome.

[Zcd1]

F20CN16 said:

Requiring users to fix something is terrible. It’s not like it walks people through the process either. Out of the box it is very poor.

So after you’ve reconfigured it to actually work, why is it better?

Edit: I understand reconfigurable options but it needs to be changed quite dramatically to be any use at all.

Edited by F20CN16 on Thursday 8th September 13:05

Let me get this straight: you’re CRITICIZING the app’s ability to be tailored to each user’s conditions and preferences?!?

Ohhhhkaaaayyyy…

(cue eye roll)

[Zcd1]

mr_spock said:

Owning an EV requires some discipline which ICE cars don't need, and although I'm a detail freak and would be fine with it, for general acceptance I suspect it would be a challenge which only more, faster chargers will overcome.

Do you (or she or anyone, really) regularly forget to charge your mobile phone?

‘nuff said.

[mr_spock]

Zcd1 said:

mr_spock said:

Owning an EV requires some discipline which ICE cars don't need, and although I'm a detail freak and would be fine with it, for general acceptance I suspect it would be a challenge which only more, faster chargers will overcome.

Do you (or she or anyone, really) regularly forget to charge your mobile phone?

‘nuff said.

I charge mine every night, and always in the car. She doesn't bother to charge unless she needs to. And, she can use the phone while it's charging, she has a portable battery pack in her bag, and she doesn't have to wait in some one-horse town with nothing open for an hour while it becomes useful again. Also, generally, every hotel has a power outlet, they usually work, and nobody wants money for it.

I feel you made my point a bit there!

[Zcd1]

mr_spock said:

I charge mine every night, and always in the car. She doesn't bother to charge unless she needs to. And, she can use the phone while it's charging, she has a portable battery pack in her bag, and she doesn't have to wait in some one-horse town with nothing open for an hour while it becomes useful again. Also, generally, every hotel has a power outlet, they usually work, and nobody wants money for it.

I feel you made my point a bit there!

I guess that depends on how you look at it.

If your wife can't be bothered to remember to plug in her phone or car, yep, that could be a problem. Most people don't have that issue.

You mentioned that the car was at 68% this morning. If you weren't planning to drive more than 150 miles today, no problem. If you were, then you'd have to stop for a bit longer initially, but maybe that experience would be enough to convince her to remember to plug it in every night?

[Zcd1]

F20CN16 said:

Requiring users to fix something is terrible. It’s not like it walks people through the process either. Out of the box it is very poor.

So after you’ve reconfigured it to actually work, why is it better?

Edit: I understand reconfigurable options but it needs to be changed quite dramatically to be any use at all.

Edited by F20CN16 on Thursday 8th September 13:05

Well, for one, Zap Map appears to be only for the UK - how does that help anyone NOT in the UK (like me, or the OP)?

Does it work any better when configured properly?

Surely you can't be serious??

[JonnyVTEC]

Use plugshare.

ABRP is clunky and junk. Really obscure burst for 6mins when we all know you use that much time just stopping your trip plugging in and then vice Versa, let alone the actual charging at a random single station garden centre or miller and carters.

[mr_spock]

Zcd1 said:

mr_spock said:

I charge mine every night, and always in the car. She doesn't bother to charge unless she needs to. And, she can use the phone while it's charging, she has a portable battery pack in her bag, and she doesn't have to wait in some one-horse town with nothing open for an hour while it becomes useful again. Also, generally, every hotel has a power outlet, they usually work, and nobody wants money for it.

I feel you made my point a bit there!

I guess that depends on how you look at it.

If your wife can't be bothered to remember to plug in her phone or car, yep, that could be a problem. Most people don't have that issue.

You mentioned that the car was at 68% this morning. If you weren't planning to drive more than 150 miles today, no problem. If you were, then you'd have to stop for a bit longer initially, but maybe that experience would be enough to convince her to remember to plug it in every night?

You seem a bit defensive about EVs TBH, I was just relating my experience and we've been discussing what regular car users might make of the need to have the self-discipline you, I and others already have.

Yes, it was at 68%, which would be no problem for her to go to work and back. She'd have 20 miles extra range in hand. But what happens if her son's car breaks down (again) and she needs to go there? She's possibly going to visit a new work location, not sure what other running around she'll need to do. Maybe she decides to go shopping, another detour. Maybe stop to see friends.

So then she needs to go to a charger, that's 30-50 mins down the drain. Or risk it and try to get to the DC charger nearer home.

It's not about "being bothered". You and I may always want to keep our devices charged, understand that deep discharge is a problem, always carry the right cables, but not everyone thinks that way. At the risk of repeating myself and getting boring, in a gas car I can throw $30 worth in the tank in a few mins and be on my way. If plans change, no problem.

Even just commuting, we're finding EV limitations, although I'd acknowledge that a LR Tesla would overcome many of those. Still, they're expensive and not everyone likes them. I wish the US Govt would seriously encourage every gas station to have at least one DC charger, then the whole problem would more or less go away.

[Zcd1]

mr_spock said:

I was just relating my experience and we've been discussing what regular car users might make of the need to have the self-discipline you, I and others already have.

And I'm relating my experiences from 4 years of driving an EV all over the US - not a sample size of a single road trip.

We've long since established that driving an EV requires a different mindset. Sadly, most legacy mfrs aren't well-equipped to inform their EV customers about those details.

[mr_spock]

Zcd1 said:

Sadly, most legacy mfrs aren't well-equipped to inform their EV customers about those details.

I agree 100% with this!