Fast estate/SUV (U.K.) - but electric?!
Discussion
Tobermory said:
Sanity check: Cancelled my EV6 GT order and switched to a regular AWD model. No-one needs a daily car that can crack 4 secs 0-60. I can't think of a time in the past 6 months where I would have been able to deploy that sort of power in my daily driving. (And there are better ways to enjoy driving at the weekends which don't involve a kerb weight of over 2 tons.)
Yep I get that. There just isn't enough differentiation between different power levels in EVs. It's not like you're getting a V8 to play with instead of a four banger, you just get pushed into the seat a bit harder on the very rare occasions that this is even worth bothering with and the rest of the car is much the same.PushedDover said:
That is where the Tesla USP of charging works ‘outside of the home radius of 200mile round trip’
That thing which across Europe nobody cares about due to the strength of publoc charging and is only a thing in the UK because ecotricity screwed us over, but is now being unpicked,. Then add Tesla are also opening their network to others.You'd be mad to buy a Tesla based on the supercharger network alone now unless you do massive daily miles on a regular basis.
Heres Johnny said:
PushedDover said:
That is where the Tesla USP of charging works ‘outside of the home radius of 200mile round trip’
That thing which across Europe nobody cares about due to the strength of publoc charging and is only a thing in the UK because ecotricity screwed us over, but is now being unpicked,. Then add Tesla are also opening their network to others.You'd be mad to buy a Tesla based on the supercharger network alone now unless you do massive daily miles on a regular basis.
It’s also range. The Tesla firstly beats all with the range. But then, if and when you need to charge on a long trip, it’s a case of calling through a super charger. I’ve never seen a stalls more than 50% full, and I’ve only ever had to put 20 mins of charge in to see off a journey.
I drive often from Teesside to Lowestoft. I can make it in one, but often stop at an empty Kings Lynn for a pee, and email check. Boom - 120miles more and job done
Neighbour has an MG. Driving it to Cornwall the other week took him 12 hrs (from Teesside) because of queues at chargers, slow chargers and poor range.
The Tesla package as it stands now would prevent me considering anything else due to those three attributes alone.
PushedDover said:
But …..
It’s also range. The Tesla firstly beats all with the range. But then, if and when you need to charge on a long trip, it’s a case of calling through a super charger. I’ve never seen a stalls more than 50% full, and I’ve only ever had to put 20 mins of charge in to see off a journey.
I drive often from Teesside to Lowestoft. I can make it in one, but often stop at an empty Kings Lynn for a pee, and email check. Boom - 120miles more and job done
Neighbour has an MG. Driving it to Cornwall the other week took him 12 hrs (from Teesside) because of queues at chargers, slow chargers and poor range.
The Tesla package as it stands now would prevent me considering anything else due to those three attributes alone.
I do envy the supercharger network, but the cars just don't do it for me. Taycan was my first choice but budget busting so went iPace. Rarely use public charger but spend a lot of time in the car so went for dynamics and ambience over charging convenience. It’s also range. The Tesla firstly beats all with the range. But then, if and when you need to charge on a long trip, it’s a case of calling through a super charger. I’ve never seen a stalls more than 50% full, and I’ve only ever had to put 20 mins of charge in to see off a journey.
I drive often from Teesside to Lowestoft. I can make it in one, but often stop at an empty Kings Lynn for a pee, and email check. Boom - 120miles more and job done
Neighbour has an MG. Driving it to Cornwall the other week took him 12 hrs (from Teesside) because of queues at chargers, slow chargers and poor range.
The Tesla package as it stands now would prevent me considering anything else due to those three attributes alone.
PushedDover said:
But …..
It’s also range. The Tesla firstly beats all with the range. But then, if and when you need to charge on a long trip, it’s a case of calling through a super charger. I’ve never seen a stalls more than 50% full, and I’ve only ever had to put 20 mins of charge in to see off a journey.
I drive often from Teesside to Lowestoft. I can make it in one, but often stop at an empty Kings Lynn for a pee, and email check. Boom - 120miles more and job done
Neighbour has an MG. Driving it to Cornwall the other week took him 12 hrs (from Teesside) because of queues at chargers, slow chargers and poor range.
The Tesla package as it stands now would prevent me considering anything else due to those three attributes alone.
Are you sure about that statement that Tesla beats all with the range? I test drove a MB EQS recently. Even based upon people test driving it (where they were enjoying the performance), the consumption was pointing to a range of 443 miles, and I reckon it's a 480-500 mile range car in the summer if you drove it more efficiently. It’s also range. The Tesla firstly beats all with the range. But then, if and when you need to charge on a long trip, it’s a case of calling through a super charger. I’ve never seen a stalls more than 50% full, and I’ve only ever had to put 20 mins of charge in to see off a journey.
I drive often from Teesside to Lowestoft. I can make it in one, but often stop at an empty Kings Lynn for a pee, and email check. Boom - 120miles more and job done
Neighbour has an MG. Driving it to Cornwall the other week took him 12 hrs (from Teesside) because of queues at chargers, slow chargers and poor range.
The Tesla package as it stands now would prevent me considering anything else due to those three attributes alone.
Discombobulate said:
I do envy the supercharger network, but the cars just don't do it for me. Taycan was my first choice but budget busting so went iPace. Rarely use public charger but spend a lot of time in the car so went for dynamics and ambience over charging convenience.
Yep. We had 2 years with a Model 3 and if you don't use the SC network regularly I'd suggest they are a tough sell in the current market. When we got ours in late 2019 there was little else available and significant novelty factor, today I'd suggest there are better options available for the money , although the practicality of the Y is certainly an improvement (and with the MYP being £15k more than our M3P was back in 2019 you'd bloody hope so).The other issue with the SC network itself is charging speeds which do drop off significantly above 50% SOC, and if it's a busy location aren't the best even from low charge.
raspy said:
Are you sure about that statement that Tesla beats all with the range? I test drove a MB EQS recently. Even based upon people test driving it (where they were enjoying the performance), the consumption was pointing to a range of 443 miles, and I reckon it's a 480-500 mile range car in the summer if you drove it more efficiently.
I tried the E-tron when ordering the MY and was soooo underwhelmed.Then I stand in my orthopaedic shoes
(Ie corrected)
raspy said:
Are you sure about that statement that Tesla beats all with the range? I test drove a MB EQS recently. Even based upon people test driving it (where they were enjoying the performance), the consumption was pointing to a range of 443 miles, and I reckon it's a 480-500 mile range car in the summer if you drove it more efficiently.
With 108kWh of available battery that would suggest an efficiency figure of 4.6 miles/kWh, which I just can't see being possible in a 2500KG EV no matter the drag co-efficient and single motor setup.Rich Symonds has recently done a test comparison with the Model S.
PushedDover said:
I tried the E-tron when ordering the MY and was soooo underwhelmed.
Then I stand in my orthopaedic shoes
(Ie corrected)
I've really enjoyed the last 10 months in ours after 2 years in a Tesla. The considerable increae in solidity, refinement and ride comfort have been much appreciated, although the efficiency is another matter.. Then I stand in my orthopaedic shoes
(Ie corrected)
I must be getting old.
Edited by SWoll on Wednesday 14th September 16:04
SWoll said:
With 108kWh of available battery that would suggest an efficiency figure of 4.6 miles/kWh, which I just can't see being possible in a 2500KG EV no matter the drag co-efficient and single motor setup.
Rich Symonds has recently done a test comparison with the Model S.
Yeah I saw the video. Why can't it be possible if the routes are not motorway driving cruising at 70mph and upwards but the driving is a mixture of lower speed roads where there is also an opportunity to do max regen? The MB dealer wasn't near a motorway, so my test drive was a bit of A roads, country lanes and urban traffic. Rich Symonds has recently done a test comparison with the Model S.
Possibly a dumb question, but does the OP have to a have a BEV or would a PHEV still meet the requirements of the company scheme?
As far as I can tell the EV salary Sacrifice scheme lets you get away with certain amount of CO2, so covers lots of PHEV's, which gives you way more choice of SUV's and estates. Eg a Volvo XC90 or V90 come in around £1k/month on Volvo's subscription service. Although the BIK will be higher than a BEV.
As far as I can tell the EV salary Sacrifice scheme lets you get away with certain amount of CO2, so covers lots of PHEV's, which gives you way more choice of SUV's and estates. Eg a Volvo XC90 or V90 come in around £1k/month on Volvo's subscription service. Although the BIK will be higher than a BEV.
PushedDover said:
raspy said:
Are you sure about that statement that Tesla beats all with the range? I test drove a MB EQS recently. Even based upon people test driving it (where they were enjoying the performance), the consumption was pointing to a range of 443 miles, and I reckon it's a 480-500 mile range car in the summer if you drove it more efficiently.
I tried the E-tron when ordering the MY and was soooo underwhelmed.Then I stand in my orthopaedic shoes
(Ie corrected)
But the ariya makes the Tesla look like a mobility scooter, the BMW i4 on anything but the largest wheels will match it, and a BMW iX3 has a useable 250 mile range. Merc have big range cars, the BMW have the i7 soon, the iX 50 is a big range car too.
Heres Johnny said:
Well the etron is a luxury, high consumption car and looking relatively dated car but if your only criteria is range then the Model Y will beat it.
But the ariya makes the Tesla look like a mobility scooter, the BMW i4 on anything but the largest wheels will match it, and a BMW iX3 has a useable 250 mile range. Merc have big range cars, the BMW have the i7 soon, the iX 50 is a big range car too.
All noted.But the ariya makes the Tesla look like a mobility scooter, the BMW i4 on anything but the largest wheels will match it, and a BMW iX3 has a useable 250 mile range. Merc have big range cars, the BMW have the i7 soon, the iX 50 is a big range car too.
Initial impressions of the E-tron was ‘they haven’t tried’
Why the paddles ? Why the rev counter-esque dash binnacle ? The frink was non existent, the boot hugely compromised and too high for practical (SUV) purposes
- the range, 200 miles and the charging rate was less than 50% of the Tesla on the granny / 3 pin plug (4miles per hour versus 9 miles per hour).
All in all - it was an ICE they stuffed with batteries. And missed the point.
The Model Y we have says 325milesmon full charge. I’d not fear or doubt a 250 mile journey sans charge.
If I’m doing a journey above that, I know the car has the best solution for plug, charge and go that exists.
raspy said:
Yeah I saw the video. Why can't it be possible if the routes are not motorway driving cruising at 70mph and upwards but the driving is a mixture of lower speed roads where there is also an opportunity to do max regen? The MB dealer wasn't near a motorway, so my test drive was a bit of A roads, country lanes and urban traffic.
The only EV's to get close to that kind of average are small, low powered and lightweight cars like the BMW i3 and VW e-Up and only then in optimum conditions. Even Edmunds often over stated EV real world test loop only managed 420 miles in perfect conditions. Real world 350-400 appears to be about the best you can expect based on numerous reviews I've seen, whihc is still impressive for such a large car.
PushedDover said:
All noted.
Initial impressions of the E-tron was ‘they haven’t tried’
Why the paddles ? Why the rev counter-esque dash binnacle ? The frink was non existent, the boot hugely compromised and too high for practical (SUV) purposes
- the range, 200 miles and the charging rate was less than 50% of the Tesla on the granny / 3 pin plug (4miles per hour versus 9 miles per hour).
All in all - it was an ICE they stuffed with batteries. And missed the point.
The Model Y we have says 325milesmon full charge. I’d not fear or doubt a 250 mile journey sans charge.
If I’m doing a journey above that, I know the car has the best solution for plug, charge and go that exists.
-The paddles are to alter regen levels, works brilliantly well once used to it as allows full regen around town and coasting on A/Motoways with a quick flick.Initial impressions of the E-tron was ‘they haven’t tried’
Why the paddles ? Why the rev counter-esque dash binnacle ? The frink was non existent, the boot hugely compromised and too high for practical (SUV) purposes
- the range, 200 miles and the charging rate was less than 50% of the Tesla on the granny / 3 pin plug (4miles per hour versus 9 miles per hour).
All in all - it was an ICE they stuffed with batteries. And missed the point.
The Model Y we have says 325milesmon full charge. I’d not fear or doubt a 250 mile journey sans charge.
If I’m doing a journey above that, I know the car has the best solution for plug, charge and go that exists.
-The binacle can be altered to show sat nav etc. and is nicer to use than the single centre screen in the Tesla.
-The frunk is a good size to store the charging cables and it does at least have one unlike BMW's offerings.
-Ours transported 5 people and luggage for a 10 day trip to the airport and back without issue in the past 2 weeks. The air suspension on ours also allows the car to be lowered for loading, barely higher than an estate car.
-It'll do 220+ in the summer and doesn't drop off as much as many other large EV's in the winter (iPace/EQC)
-You need to press the button on the granny charger to activate 2.2 kW charging if left unused or it will default to 1.1kW and take an age, as per your experience. Ours chargers at 6-7 miles per hour.
-On rapid chargers it charges faster thn the Tesla as will maintain 150kW from 0-80% whereas the Tesla starts faster but fades away quickly after 50%
-It's not compromised by a transmission tunnel as per every shared platform EV I've tried and has masses of interior space as a result.
- Never saw anywhere near the suggested range in our Model 3 no matter how it was driven.
That's all based on 20k miles in the Tesla and 8k miles in the Audi.
Agree with everything above - now 20k miles in with our e-tron and has been great as our only car. Currently in the South of France with it having made the trip here with baby & dog in tow, with enough space for everything and a painless charging experience en-route using Ionity exclusively.
Will definitely be looking to switch to the 2023 version if it can continue to deliver the full package so well, but with an extra 100+ miles range…
Will definitely be looking to switch to the 2023 version if it can continue to deliver the full package so well, but with an extra 100+ miles range…
SWoll said:
The only EV's to get close to that kind of average are small, low powered and lightweight cars like the BMW i3 and VW e-Up and only then in optimum conditions.
Even Edmunds often over stated EV real world test loop only managed 420 miles in perfect conditions. Real world 350-400 appears to be about the best you can expect based on numerous reviews I've seen, whihc is still impressive for such a large car.
I'm getting 4.2 miles per kwh consistently in the last 3 weeks out of a Mokka-e, even with climate control on when it's <15C ambient temp, and I'm not exactly accelerating gently to preserve battery either. Even Edmunds often over stated EV real world test loop only managed 420 miles in perfect conditions. Real world 350-400 appears to be about the best you can expect based on numerous reviews I've seen, whihc is still impressive for such a large car.
Maybe I'm being a bit contrarian, but if range is the all important metric then why bother with an EV in the first place? Obviously longer range is great and all that but there is virtually nothing about an EQS that appeals to me and if I wanted that kind of thing then I would get an S-class with zero hassle. Why spend very big money on an EQS when you are mostly getting something that is inferior to an equivalent diesel S-class? If everything gets improved range/efficiency then an invalid argument of course, at least if that improved range doesn't come with "improved" pricing.
Mercedes does some pretty compelling "de" models where you get electricity in local/urban driving and diesel power when you want to get places. That makes sense to me. I think you can also get a "fast estate" in that kind of configuration, maybe the petrol electric alternatives.
Mercedes does some pretty compelling "de" models where you get electricity in local/urban driving and diesel power when you want to get places. That makes sense to me. I think you can also get a "fast estate" in that kind of configuration, maybe the petrol electric alternatives.
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