VW seems to be panicking...

[Tigger2050]

SWoll said:

Because it's possibly a far better car?

Polestar build the 2 and 3 in China and they cost between £45k and £95k. Would you suggest an MG would be comparable just because of where it is built?

Why is the Polestar better built? Is it because of the badge a Chinese worker stuck on the bonnet?

[AlexIT]

boxedin said:

From the Telegraph's review of the Honda:

'It's built in Wuhan, China, in a 50:50 joint venture with Chinese car maker, Dongfeng.'

How are they going to name it?

Honda CO-V1d?

[Mark V GTD]

Najan51 said:

I had an ID.4 for a month from ONTO and it was ok and would have considered buying one (stupid window switches notwithstanding).

But the 12 month lead time ruled it out for me.

Last time I looked on Auto-trader new cars there were dozens of them.

[SWoll]

Tigger2050 said:

SWoll said:

Because it's possibly a far better car?

Polestar build the 2 and 3 in China and they cost between £45k and £95k. Would you suggest an MG would be comparable just because of where it is built?

Why is the Polestar better built? Is it because of the badge a Chinese worker stuck on the bonnet?

Where did I say they were better built? A lot more to being a better car than how it is put together.

[coetzeeh]

VW sales up +40.27% vs 2022.

Tesla up +37.49% vs 2022.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...

[Fastdruid]

coetzeeh said:

VW sales up +40.27% vs 2022.

Tesla up +37.49% vs 2022.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...

The big issue with comparing to 2022 is that all the manufacturers were struggling for chips and the war in Ukraine affected supply chains.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/volkswagen-r...
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vws-wolfsbu...
https://uk.motor1.com/news/630947/volkswagen-chip-...

So are the increased sales from 2022 *ACTUALLY* up or just going from a very very low baseline (for VW)... and the answer is no. They're massively down.

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

[TheDeuce]

Fastdruid said:

coetzeeh said:

VW sales up +40.27% vs 2022.

Tesla up +37.49% vs 2022.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...

The big issue with comparing to 2022 is that all the manufacturers were struggling for chips and the war in Ukraine affected supply chains.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/volkswagen-r...
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vws-wolfsbu...
https://uk.motor1.com/news/630947/volkswagen-chip-...

So are the increased sales from 2022 *ACTUALLY* up or just going from a very very low baseline (for VW)... and the answer is no. They're massively down.

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

Was about to post the same - 22' is a false baseline, not worth bothering with.

the fact of the matter is the latest generation of VW ICE cars are under evolved and under exciting. Their first generation of EV's are worse, they managed to take the pen to a fresh piece of paper and still hit the ground with outdated, under exciting cars.

Sales data aside, just look at what they're trying to sell. The same type of cars but with more fun factor and kit are being sold by the new boys for less.

[Frimley111R]

Fastdruid said:

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

Jesus! The alarm bells must be ringing nonstop. Are others struggling too?

I know their EVs are dull but that's always been their strength, well that and decent quality. People don't buy VWs for the way they drive or their sporty looks. Their EVs should appeal to a typical VW customer.

[Sheepshanks]

Fastdruid said:

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

23 was 93K. 66K is the 2022 number.

And those numbers aren't "VW" - they're "VW registrations in the UK".

[kambites]

Trying to use sales/registration volumes to determine demand in a fundamentally supply limited environment is daft whatever the numbers are.

[Fastdruid]

Sheepshanks said:

Fastdruid said:

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

23 was 93K. 66K is the 2022 number.

And those numbers aren't "VW" - they're "VW registrations in the UK".

Sorry, you are correct I picked up the wrong number there, 126k in 2019 vs 93k in 2023. It's still massively down.
(that number btw is "Volkswagen car sales in the United Kingdom (UK)"[1], I'm not sure if that differs from registrations or not.)

[1] Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/300396/volkswa...

[hunt123]

I bet many manufacturers are down on 2019 figures, not just VW.

[Frimley111R]

Fastdruid said:

Sheepshanks said:

Fastdruid said:

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

23 was 93K. 66K is the 2022 number.

And those numbers aren't "VW" - they're "VW registrations in the UK".

Sorry, you are correct I picked up the wrong number there, 126k in 2019 vs 93k in 2023. It's still massively down.
(that number btw is "Volkswagen car sales in the United Kingdom (UK)"[1], I'm not sure if that differs from registrations or not.)

[1] Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/300396/volkswa...

is that EVs or all vehicles?

[Fastdruid]

Frimley111R said:

Fastdruid said:

Sheepshanks said:

Fastdruid said:

To put it another way, Jan to July 2023 they sold 66k. In Jan to July 2019 they sold 126k. That's not far off half the sales of only a few years ago.

23 was 93K. 66K is the 2022 number.

And those numbers aren't "VW" - they're "VW registrations in the UK".

Sorry, you are correct I picked up the wrong number there, 126k in 2019 vs 93k in 2023. It's still massively down.
(that number btw is "Volkswagen car sales in the United Kingdom (UK)"[1], I'm not sure if that differs from registrations or not.)

[1] Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/300396/volkswa...

is that EVs or all vehicles?

All vehicles, same as the SMMT data coetzeeh posted.

[dxg]

So, they've got an electric ID.2 "GTI"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpvCSI9IwJA

[dvs_dave]

AlexIT said:

boxedin said:

From the Telegraph's review of the Honda:

'It's built in Wuhan, China, in a 50:50 joint venture with Chinese car maker, Dongfeng.'

How are they going to name it?

Honda CO-V1d?

HonDong throbber extra

[plfrench]

dxg said:

So, they've got an electric ID.2 "GTI"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpvCSI9IwJA

If they bring that to market by the end of 2025 / very early 2026, then that'll be my wife's next car without doubt. They've even got the colour right for her She's always been a sucker for a red Golf GTi but never quite got one in time for the beginning of the EV era.

Shame the ID2 isn't going to be rwd... her e-Golf with its modest power and torque was a bit traction limited when it was wet.

If the comments on that Youtube video are anything to go by, then VW don't need to panic one bit! I've never seen such unanimous praise!

Edited by plfrench on Sunday 3rd September 21:06

[TheDeuce]

Finally they appear to be making something equivalent to an actual golf in ID form! Why did it have to be this complicated or take so long???

Obviously it has to be at least as fast as a golf GTi and no more expensive if it's going to make sense - I genuinely hope that is the case and that we see a bit of excitement come from the VW EV camp at long last.

[BlindedByTheLights]

Problem is that it’ll probably be £50/60k at this rate.

[Frimley111R]

Looks great.

I do wonder why changing the power source of cars has led to such a massive change in the way cars look. Convincing people to go EV is hard enough without turning all their cars into huge/ultra slippery things that no-one recognises. It seems like making the challenge to go EV twice as hard. Just make the cars we know EV.

This ID2 GTI looks much more like something people are used to