Taycan starting to look like a bargain
Discussion
I have been running a Polestar 2 for the last 3 and a bit years. Its on a 4 year lease and I am at a cross roads on what to do next. My Polestar will have approx. 85k on it at the end of its lease. The lease is via a LTD company that is also VAT registered
I am seriously considering a Taycan with say 20k on the clock as its replacement when it goes back - Doing a normal PCP/Finance deal vs leasing a new car and just swap it out every 2 years.
Need to speak to my accountant as I need to fully understand the tax allowances on buying a used car vs a new - But on my man maths calculator, a used Taycan seems like a bloody good buy over say, a new Polestar2/Tesla/Merc EV etc
I am seriously considering a Taycan with say 20k on the clock as its replacement when it goes back - Doing a normal PCP/Finance deal vs leasing a new car and just swap it out every 2 years.
Need to speak to my accountant as I need to fully understand the tax allowances on buying a used car vs a new - But on my man maths calculator, a used Taycan seems like a bloody good buy over say, a new Polestar2/Tesla/Merc EV etc
andy_ran said:
I have been running a Polestar 2 for the last 3 and a bit years. Its on a 4 year lease and I am at a cross roads on what to do next. My Polestar will have approx. 85k on it at the end of its lease. The lease is via a LTD company that is also VAT registered
I am seriously considering a Taycan with say 20k on the clock as its replacement when it goes back - Doing a normal PCP/Finance deal vs leasing a new car and just swap it out every 2 years.
Need to speak to my accountant as I need to fully understand the tax allowances on buying a used car vs a new - But on my man maths calculator, a used Taycan seems like a bloody good buy over say, a new Polestar2/Tesla/Merc EV etc
I wouldn't buy. We leased a Leaf, leased a Soul, bought a used Tesla and got our money back after 2 years because of the buoyant 2022 market, and now have a Honda E that I reckon is losing a grand a month. Next time it'll be an EV lease again or if BIK changes we'd be back to private petrol cars.I am seriously considering a Taycan with say 20k on the clock as its replacement when it goes back - Doing a normal PCP/Finance deal vs leasing a new car and just swap it out every 2 years.
Need to speak to my accountant as I need to fully understand the tax allowances on buying a used car vs a new - But on my man maths calculator, a used Taycan seems like a bloody good buy over say, a new Polestar2/Tesla/Merc EV etc
I wouldn't touch a lot of EVs outside of warranty either. Leaf and Soul were perfect across 6 years and maybe 30-35k miles, two years of Tesla meant 11 grand of warranty repairs, Honda has had two door handles at £680 a side so far but is otherwise perfect. Taycan would be scary money to fix.
Panamax said:
Take a look at BMW i8 prices - 100 cars for sale from £30,000. They originally sold for well over £100k.
Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
To be fair to the i8 they were almost supercars and they're about 8-10 years old by now?Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
Taycan's going down much faster than that.
Harry's video makes a lot of sense IMHO - the youtuber with the databases in the video is Bjorn Nyland - I watched quite a bit of his stuff a few years ago - he knows what he's doing and his cross-manufacturer data is pretty much unique. I'd say some of it is data some manufacturers aren't very keen on sharing!
As above, a database comment on a car was 'A lot of supercharging' - we've done southern europe in one hit via Tesla a couple of times, and after 10 hours of flat out 130+ km/h drive, supercharge, drive, supercharge, the noises the cooling system was making were borderline terrifying - the hotter things get the faster and noisier the system runs. By the end of it the car just wouldn't hit it's max 150kw charging speed at all, and when we did finally stop it was running it's cooling pump incredibly loudly for ages. I can understand exactly how regular fast charging can kill a battery.
JimmyJack said:
Some Gump said:
JonnyVTEC said:
Just for accuracy the numbers were also comparing a Range Rover Sport with a FF Range Rover.
So awful and awful, a fair comparison 
Edited by W12GT on Saturday 10th February 13:20
Panamax said:
Take a look at BMW i8 prices - 100 cars for sale from £30,000. They originally sold for well over £100k.
Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
Although the Taycan has been singled out here, I wonder how many other big EVs and other big ICE cars are doing better/worse?Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
Mahalo said:
Watched it - as others have noted it is a ramble from an irrelevant old man who inherently does not like EVs. The cherry picking of dubious data from sources that support his inbuilt prejudice comes through clearly even though he waffles on. He knows his audience though and as we can see from some of the posts here, the anti EV crowd like what he says.
Irrelevant? What have you done with your life and let's compare it to Harry.TX.
Terminator X said:
Mahalo said:
Watched it - as others have noted it is a ramble from an irrelevant old man who inherently does not like EVs. The cherry picking of dubious data from sources that support his inbuilt prejudice comes through clearly even though he waffles on. He knows his audience though and as we can see from some of the posts here, the anti EV crowd like what he says.
Irrelevant? What have you done with your life and let's compare it to Harry.TX.
Having started and sold on EVO mag he makes videos which seem to appeal to a certain selection of a mainly male audience.
Panamax said:
Take a look at BMW i8 prices - 100 cars for sale from £30,000. They originally sold for well over £100k.
Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
A lot of i8s are 8-9 years old. They dropped hugely in the first years then have largely flattend. They should really have been £90k new, not £115k.Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
Mr Squarekins said:
A lot of i8s are 8-9 years old. They dropped hugely in the first years then have largely flattend. They should really have been £90k new, not £115k.
£99K at launch. Used prices are what you'd expect for almost any £100K BMW at 5-6 years old.I'd have on in a heartbeat, but apparently I'm too old for a mid-life crisis and the hound wouldn't enjoy it.
Panamax said:
...
Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
Comparing depreciation on a 6-figure fast saloon/estate with a relatively cheap two door sports car is hardly sensible territory. Nor is it unique to a Taycan. Have a look at 4 seat Ferrari prices versus 2-seat ones.Plenty of depreciation still in the pipeline for Taycan. I may be wrong but I suspect used prices will struggle to stay above Boxster/Cayman which were significantly cheaper cars from new.
RS6s and E63 AMGs seems to lose a decent chunk too, especially when you compare them with their smaller, cheaper sportscar stablemates.
andy43 said:
...
As above, a database comment on a car was 'A lot of supercharging' - we've done southern europe in one hit via Tesla a couple of times, and after 10 hours of flat out 130+ km/h drive, supercharge, drive, supercharge, the noises the cooling system was making were borderline terrifying - the hotter things get the faster and noisier the system runs. By the end of it the car just wouldn't hit it's max 150kw charging speed at all, and when we did finally stop it was running it's cooling pump incredibly loudly for ages. I can understand exactly how regular fast charging can kill a battery.
I can also see lots of rapid charging causing longevity issues. But again, how typical a use case is that?As above, a database comment on a car was 'A lot of supercharging' - we've done southern europe in one hit via Tesla a couple of times, and after 10 hours of flat out 130+ km/h drive, supercharge, drive, supercharge, the noises the cooling system was making were borderline terrifying - the hotter things get the faster and noisier the system runs. By the end of it the car just wouldn't hit it's max 150kw charging speed at all, and when we did finally stop it was running it's cooling pump incredibly loudly for ages. I can understand exactly how regular fast charging can kill a battery.
The datapoints in the Nordic chap's posts are interesting, but they are far from scientific. Whether he knows what he's doing or not.
Tesla data is here : https://insideevs.com/news/664106/tesla-battery-ca...
Other data on Teslas here : https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla... (I haven't looked to see if the site this is from is owned by the love child of Elon).
How many ICE cars have 100% of their power at 200k miles old? As an ex-owner, B7 RS4s were notorious (among the rumour mills at least) for not making the claimed power even when new. I was lucky (maybe) and mine was rudely healthy, even when sold at 103k miles. But it didn't stop the tittle tattle...which may have had some justification. Who knows - manufacturers have *always* been..."conservative" in releasing solid datasets on their cars, no matter what the technology involved.
W12GT said:
I think the answer is yes they have if you look at 21plate cars - not helped by thefts and insurance issues. Defenders have stood up much better in comparison.
Ah but according to Harry that was the old model so not a problem now he's bought one... 
We all have a tendency to gravitate towards views that agree with our own. There is no denying that Taycan prices have been kicked in the Chalfonts. Many of the reasons behind this are not unique to EVs. (I remember getting a very good deal on a 2007 V8 Vantage when Aston screwed the pooch on demand/supply on those back in the day...the depreciation curve flattened eventually...and I didn't care much then either as the car was brilliant!).
We'll see what happens.
Meanwhile, if you don't insist on giving yourself a bladder infection by driving for days non-stop, don't pee your pants at the thought of driving somewhere without knowing where service stations might be, and don't treat cars like some sort of stock that are able to defy gravity (another large chunk of the issue with Taycans - Porsche badge surely means appreciation, no?), the Taycan is well worth a look, and might be considered a bargain. Nigh on all cars depreciate. Might as well have fun in them while they do
Nomme de Plum said:
Louis Balfour said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Having started and sold on EVO mag he makes videos which seem to appeal to a certain selection of a mainly male audience.
The intelligent ones?Nomme de Plum said:
Louis Balfour said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Having started and sold on EVO mag he makes videos which seem to appeal to a certain selection of a mainly male audience.
The intelligent ones?Louis Balfour said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Louis Balfour said:
Nomme de Plum said:
Having started and sold on EVO mag he makes videos which seem to appeal to a certain selection of a mainly male audience.
The intelligent ones?As for the PVs did he tell us what his ROI is? So maybe not necessarily green just good business.
Nomme de Plum said:
Anyone who just flashes each sheet so quickly it cannot be read
A bit like saying that an EQC battery had degraded by 8.3% in 2 years because it was rapid charged a lot. Not good on the face of it, until you look closer and see that it had done over 200k. It starts to look pretty good then.The one part I slightly agreed with was that there needs to be stricter targets on efficiency. He has a slight point but to call large EVs gas guzzlers is stretching it a bit. Sure 2 miles/kWh isn't great but still leagues ahead of any equivalent ICE.
If my i3s went from 4 miles/kWh to 2, it'd cost me £4 to cover 120 miles. So 3 pence/mile. Hardly gas guzzling.
But placing stricter limits on EV would need them to be manufactured like an i3. That would push prices up even further and at a time when the tech is still evolving.
Nomme de Plum said:
I was not implying he has any axe to grind, just that he does not approach comparisons from an entirely balanced perspective. A completely impartial comparison would have put those two finance examples side by side and talked through them line by line. This is pretty basic stuff when doing such analysis. Anyone who just flashes each sheet so quickly it cannot be read then states hey ho the PHEV is massively more expensive to lease should be treated with a huge amount of scepticism.
As for the PVs did he tell us what his ROI is? So maybe not necessarily green just good business.
I am so far from understanding your point of view on this that it is becoming fascinating to me.As for the PVs did he tell us what his ROI is? So maybe not necessarily green just good business.
He can lease a diesel RRS for £600ppm with £20,000 down.
A PHEV RRS costs £1025ppm with £20,000 down.
Which part of that is not balanced?
Is the diesel £425/month cheaper or not?
You can press pause and read every line of both quotes.
What JLR chooses to do with interest rates, or list prices, or discount to list, or assumed final value is what makes the monthly figures different. But the final outcome is that one car is £425/month cheaper to finance than the other.
andyalan10 said:
I am so far from understanding your point of view on this that it is becoming fascinating to me.
He can lease a diesel RRS for £600ppm with £20,000 down.
A PHEV RRS costs £1025ppm with £20,000 down.
Which part of that is not balanced?
Is the diesel £425/month cheaper or not?
You can press pause and read every line of both quotes.
What JLR chooses to do with interest rates, or list prices, or discount to list, or assumed final value is what makes the monthly figures different. But the final outcome is that one car is £425/month cheaper to finance than the other.
Because when one produces a report for a client/ customer the starting point is a level specification so you can filter out the stuff from one or add back options on the lower spec item. Otherwise why not compare to a BMW or Merc or any other similar product. He can lease a diesel RRS for £600ppm with £20,000 down.
A PHEV RRS costs £1025ppm with £20,000 down.
Which part of that is not balanced?
Is the diesel £425/month cheaper or not?
You can press pause and read every line of both quotes.
What JLR chooses to do with interest rates, or list prices, or discount to list, or assumed final value is what makes the monthly figures different. But the final outcome is that one car is £425/month cheaper to finance than the other.
Then you move onto other factors like level of deposit and interest rates. Surely you understand that finance does not need to come from JLR which could also impact on the comparison and then again some of us have access to cash so the cost should be the cost of taking that money off investment.
It is the principle of comparing apples with apples, nothing more.
It is incredibly disengenous to assert some sort of like for like comparison which in reality it isn't. As I said if he had talked it through line by line then that would have been the correct approach but he didn't.
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