There's now more charge points than petrol stations !
Discussion
I wonder how many ICE car drivers realise that there may now be more charge points than petrol stations in the UK ?? (... and that's not including 1 billion+ 13 amp sockets at homes and offices !)
- Ecotricity now have almost every motorway service station covered offering multiple FREE fast charging points providing 50kw DC, 43kw, 22kw, 7kw. They'll also supply electricity to your home with a discount if you own a pure EV.
- All IKEA's have Ecotricity chargers too.
- Then there's something like 5,000+ 7kw+ charge points out there, many linked to hotels/restaurants/shopping centres. See the ZCW, Opencharge and other maps below.
- Within a year or so Tesla will have rolled out their insane 135 Kw super fast chargers, for Model S and any future EV manufacturers that licence their tech.
- Tesla also have a little known grid of 15kw / 70amp chargers that's been in place for 4 yrs. It covers the entire UK if you assume a radius of 175 miles from each one.
- Nissan Dealers also provide high power charge points for the Leaf fleet, although mostly not all accessible at night.
- There's literally thousands of 32amp / 7kw blue-commando outlets all over every industrial estate I've been to. However, whilst these are very handy on business / site meetings, they are not promoted anywhere as public charge points!
- And as a last resort most EVs can be plugged into those billion+ mains sockets all over the UK
Other factoids :-
There is only about 8,000 petrol stations in the whole of the UK ... see last map below.
There are approx 34 million vehicles in the UK, 28 million of them ICE cars.
There are only about 5,000 EVs in the UK at present. That will leap by nearly a 1,000 when Tesla Model S's start arriving mid year, with other EV sales this year taking the total to maybe 7,500 by Q1 2015.
Apparently 96% of car drivers do less than 46 miles a day.
Most ICE car owners don't seem to get that most EV's top up at night, have full range every morning, and that you don't fill them up once every couple of weeks. Public charge points don't get used anywhere near as much as domestic overnight charging. But its nice to know they are there, especially if planning for long trips.
Most EV drivers use them for town/city/commuting and don't care that they can't do 478 mile trips at 180mph.
EVs are not for everyone and if you really do randomly drive to John O'Groats before breakfast then no worries - go buy a 2nd hand VW Passat TDi for £5k. Its still a free world. Mostly.
Charge map websites and APP's
There is not yet one combined charge map due to many suppliers jostling for superiority, and many of the location flags on the maps shown below do overlap. However, the vast majority of EV drivers will be relying on nightly top ups rather than depend on the growing charging network. Here's a few examples :-
http://openchargemap.org/site/
http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-the-road/our-elect...
http://zerocarbonworld.org/
https://www.sourcelondon.net/map.php
http://www.chargemasterplc.com/index.php/live-map/
http://www.pluggedinmidlands.co.uk/live-availabili...
http://plugshare.com
http://www.zap-map.com
Relative EV distances Vs top 100 >7kw sites in the SW
And just in case anyone is still reading, here's a petrol station map for the south west !!
Edited by Carparticus on Saturday 5th April 04:56
PHuzzy said:
Nothing against EVs at all. That post was mind numbingly boring!A common experience for EV drivers is that total strangers often approach us in carparks and ask dozens questions. Most have no idea you can plug them into a normal 13 amp socket, or how much a kwh is, and seem surprised that they can do more than 3 miles cos Top Gear said they were crap etc etc.
It seems to me there are plenty of EV curious people out there who might just find my points and links useful and dispel some of the urban myths that surround them.
Playing devils advocate for a moment.
Number of charge points against number of petrol is a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
How many EVs can be fully 'fuelled' in an hour from the available charge points?
How many conventional cars can be fuelled in the same time from the available conventional stations?
(I guess a more interesting stat would be "what proportion of the ev population can be fully charged in an hour?")
When do Tesla release the S and start putting down their high capacity chargers?
Number of charge points against number of petrol is a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
How many EVs can be fully 'fuelled' in an hour from the available charge points?
How many conventional cars can be fuelled in the same time from the available conventional stations?
(I guess a more interesting stat would be "what proportion of the ev population can be fully charged in an hour?")
When do Tesla release the S and start putting down their high capacity chargers?
Mr E said:
Playing devils advocate for a moment.
Number of charge points against number of petrol is a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
How many EVs can be fully 'fuelled' in an hour from the available charge points?
How many conventional cars can be fuelled in the same time from the available conventional stations?
(I guess a more interesting stat would be "what proportion of the ev population can be fully charged in an hour?")
When do Tesla release the S and start putting down their high capacity chargers?
Flip it backNumber of charge points against number of petrol is a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
How many EVs can be fully 'fuelled' in an hour from the available charge points?
How many conventional cars can be fuelled in the same time from the available conventional stations?
(I guess a more interesting stat would be "what proportion of the ev population can be fully charged in an hour?")
When do Tesla release the S and start putting down their high capacity chargers?
How many petrol cars magically refill themselves with 100 miles worth of petrol while you sleep?
An EV will rarely need filling from empty
Applying a liquid fuelled car routine to a EV doesn't work as they are very different concepts
Mr E said:
Playing devils advocate for a moment.
Number of charge points against number of petrol is a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
It is .. when petrol users continually tell you that "they'd love an EV for commuting but don't know where to charge it because Top Gear says they can't even get to the shops and back!!" This charging point question is probably the most frequent question I get, hence my mega post earlier.Number of charge points against number of petrol is a bit of an irrelevant comparison.
In 1,000+ EV journeys I've needed to do a mid-journey top-up less than 1% of those times. I appreciate that different EVs have different uses and different range limits.
In other words its a non issue once you get your head out of the petrol tank mindset.
The key point with an EV is that the VAST majority of the time the car is fuelled at home and you have full range every morning, and unless you really do exceed the range every day (in which case you wouldn't have bought it) .. you rarely actually need to use all these charge points.
As newer EV's with greater range become available this whole issue of charge points will fall away in time.
Its the total opposite of the petrol station mind set. Charge point locations are mostly at restaurants, hotels, car parks etc, and they top up whilst you're doing something else, not whilst you stand there for 5 minutes.
Mr E said:
When do Tesla release the S and start putting down their high capacity chargers?
I think the build out is spread over the next 12 months or so.If the Model S can do 250 miles per-day between nightly top-ups, how many people will actually use public charge points mid journey? My guess is not many. How many people do 500 miles journeys ?!
Bear in mind that the Euro spec Model S can also use most of the other existing charge points, including the 50kw DC ones. So, given how small the UK is compared to the States, I don't think Tesla are going to install more than a dozen on key motorway routes.
The Superchargers can 'fill' at a rate up to 150 miles per 20 mins and that will be the same for their forthcoming £30k family car.
A £30k EV with 200+ mile daily range and free supercharger use for life will be a total game changer.
Most of the journeys my daughter and I make are in the city. We tend to charge at the car park in town (plugged-in Midlands) where my daughter works because it is free (at present). I have made three major trips in the past two months - Brighton to Birmingham, Birmingham to Rockingham circuit and Birmingham to Nottingham. I could not have done any of these three trips without ecotricity's excellent fast chargers. I always consult their superb website before setting out so I can plot the route and check the chargers are working - there are always some not working at present but usually there is a work around.
Now for the main point. Waiting at a service station for an hour to charge my car, it does occur to me that if there are more people using electric cars for longer journeys, there is going to be a long wait, even if it is for one other person to charge up. Frankly I don't think EVs are the answer at present. Range extender vehicles or plug in hybrids seem to me the way forward in the short term. If you think I am wrong look at all the PHers like me who have an electric car and a petrol or diesel car.
Now for the main point. Waiting at a service station for an hour to charge my car, it does occur to me that if there are more people using electric cars for longer journeys, there is going to be a long wait, even if it is for one other person to charge up. Frankly I don't think EVs are the answer at present. Range extender vehicles or plug in hybrids seem to me the way forward in the short term. If you think I am wrong look at all the PHers like me who have an electric car and a petrol or diesel car.
more charging points than filling stations is not a fair comparision, when was the last time you saw a single fuel pump installlation outside of a haulage yard or DC with it's own bunker ( even a farmer with his own bunkers has 2 nozzles (one for white one for red )
how many charging points vs how many fuel pumps would be a apples vs apples comparision
there's plenty of filling stations with 10 or more pumps/ paired pumps ( and consequently 20 or more nozzles - but you can only use one per pump / half at a time ...
but then again factual accuracy is never a strong point for many of the 'pwerfully built' PHers...
how many charging points vs how many fuel pumps would be a apples vs apples comparision
there's plenty of filling stations with 10 or more pumps/ paired pumps ( and consequently 20 or more nozzles - but you can only use one per pump / half at a time ...
but then again factual accuracy is never a strong point for many of the 'pwerfully built' PHers...
mph1977 said:
more charging points than filling stations is not a fair comparision, when was the last time you saw a single fuel pump installlation outside of a haulage yard or DC with it's own bunker ( even a farmer with his own bunkers has 2 nozzles (one for white one for red )
how many charging points vs how many fuel pumps would be a apples vs apples comparision
there's plenty of filling stations with 10 or more pumps/ paired pumps ( and consequently 20 or more nozzles - but you can only use one per pump / half at a time ...
but then again factual accuracy is never a strong point for many of the 'pwerfully built' PHers...
If you want to play it that wayhow many charging points vs how many fuel pumps would be a apples vs apples comparision
there's plenty of filling stations with 10 or more pumps/ paired pumps ( and consequently 20 or more nozzles - but you can only use one per pump / half at a time ...
but then again factual accuracy is never a strong point for many of the 'pwerfully built' PHers...
I am pretty certain that 90% of people who own an EV will have a domestic charge point
and there is about 7000 EVs in the UK and rising
Interesting post. I never knew that. However, when you think about it it is really not surprising. Compared to setting up a new petrol station, setting an electric charging post must make a cake walk look hard.
The next test will be whether the UK power grid can supply the them nicely. Those new nuclear plants can't come too soon IMO.
The next test will be whether the UK power grid can supply the them nicely. Those new nuclear plants can't come too soon IMO.
Otispunkmeyer said:
The next test will be whether the UK power grid can supply the them nicely. Those new nuclear plants can't come too soon IMO.
Yet againPetrol car thinking to an EV
When was the last time you filled your car up with petrol while you were fast asleep in your bed?
EVs will be mostly recharged while everyone is tucked up in bed and the national grid is at its lowest load.
I think someone did a back of a fag paper calculation and we could cope with all cars in the UK being electric based on the current average milage and being charged overnight
as for the poster who commented with regard to people not being able to fuel their car at home - surely this is a artefact of the rules relating to petrol storage ...
I know a few people who have thier own personal (legit white) diesel bunkers tucked away at their houses ... mainly landowner / haulage company owner types - who often have other bunkerage at their business sites and /or oil fired heating and therefore have an account with a supplier for that ...
I know a few people who have thier own personal (legit white) diesel bunkers tucked away at their houses ... mainly landowner / haulage company owner types - who often have other bunkerage at their business sites and /or oil fired heating and therefore have an account with a supplier for that ...
It seems a pretty decent idea at the moment for people who do limited mileage but what happens if the whole pure EV concept actually gains traction? A typical petrol station will refuel a petrol car in less than five minutes including queuing and payment, what will happen when it takes five hours to recharge a electric car and you have a dozen waiting?
I went shopping in Kingston last month and while waiting outside for my other half to finish trying on clothes saw a Mercedes A class with blue badge that was parked in the street being lifted onto a loader as it had parked in an EV bay! Straight after an Ampera parked in the spot, the driver must have called the council in advance.
This was the bay in question, took a photo as had never seen an Ampera before (it looks quite normal) previously the bay used to be a disabled one so felt a bit sorry for the A-Class driver. I think it's a slippery slope as if EV does gain mass acceptance EV only parking spaces are going to become a lot more common, already in Asda they have priority spaces from emission band A and B cars.
I went shopping in Kingston last month and while waiting outside for my other half to finish trying on clothes saw a Mercedes A class with blue badge that was parked in the street being lifted onto a loader as it had parked in an EV bay! Straight after an Ampera parked in the spot, the driver must have called the council in advance.
This was the bay in question, took a photo as had never seen an Ampera before (it looks quite normal) previously the bay used to be a disabled one so felt a bit sorry for the A-Class driver. I think it's a slippery slope as if EV does gain mass acceptance EV only parking spaces are going to become a lot more common, already in Asda they have priority spaces from emission band A and B cars.
untakenname said:
It seems a pretty decent idea at the moment for people who do limited mileage but what happens if the whole pure EV concept actually gains traction? A typical petrol station will refuel a petrol car in less than five minutes including queuing and payment, what will happen when it takes five hours to recharge a electric car and you have a dozen waiting?
.
Yet again.
Petrol thinking being applied to an EV
95% of refilling of an EV will be done at home
Those that regularly have to use a public fast charger either has terrible planning skills or should of not bought an EV in the first place
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