EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
SteveStrange said:
Well, quite. Very, very few people can use a company to buy them and make best use of the tax breaks. The vast majority of "normal" people can't afford high prices, for average cars, especially in the current energy price "crisis".
It's cheaper for me to buy and run my 911, than it is for my brother to buy and run his boggo Tesla 3. And let's be fair, the Tesla build quality, seat comfort etc is awful. It's a £50k fancy iPad with wheels. It says a lot that he has also got a 7 year old 320d estate (bought after the Tesla) for daily family duties.
The 320d makes zero sense in that context, the Tesla charged at home is the better and way cheaper car to use for daily family duties, the 320d would only really be better for very long distance travelling. Is your 911 of a similar age or an older depreciated one to offset high fuel and servicing costs?It's cheaper for me to buy and run my 911, than it is for my brother to buy and run his boggo Tesla 3. And let's be fair, the Tesla build quality, seat comfort etc is awful. It's a £50k fancy iPad with wheels. It says a lot that he has also got a 7 year old 320d estate (bought after the Tesla) for daily family duties.
bennno said:
SteveStrange said:
Well, quite. Very, very few people can use a company to buy them and make best use of the tax breaks. The vast majority of "normal" people can't afford high prices, for average cars, especially in the current energy price "crisis".
It's cheaper for me to buy and run my 911, than it is for my brother to buy and run his boggo Tesla 3. And let's be fair, the Tesla build quality, seat comfort etc is awful. It's a £50k fancy iPad with wheels. It says a lot that he has also got a 7 year old 320d estate (bought after the Tesla) for daily family duties.
The 320d makes zero sense in that context, the Tesla charged at home is the better and way cheaper car to use for daily family duties, the 320d would only really be better for very long distance travelling. Is your 911 of a similar age or an older depreciated one to offset high fuel and servicing costs?It's cheaper for me to buy and run my 911, than it is for my brother to buy and run his boggo Tesla 3. And let's be fair, the Tesla build quality, seat comfort etc is awful. It's a £50k fancy iPad with wheels. It says a lot that he has also got a 7 year old 320d estate (bought after the Tesla) for daily family duties.
SteveStrange said:
He's got 3 kids, so the tesla is not used for school runs, family days out etc etc. And yes the 911 is older than the Tesla, but depreciation is less. Everyone's situation is different, but to use the example I quoted above as a "normal" usage is not hugely representative, IMO.
The cheapest new 3 series is listed at just under £39000 without options and a Tesla model 3 or as you call it an iPad on wheels is £42000. For that £42000 you get a longer warranty, MASSIVELY more kit that genuinely people want like sentry , adaptive cruse, heated seats and steering wheel , electric memory seats and full 360 camera recording while driving. It will absolutely destroy the 3 series in performance, is still MASSIVELY cheaper in running costs and if you own or even considering a work vehicle there is really no option but to buy an EV. As in most cases it seems that people against Tesla’s and genuinely all EV’s have some pent up frustration or are simply jealous. It always seems to be “ my mate had one and could never charge it “ or “ they are crap build “ but it seems the majority of people who have worked out that an EV would suit their lifestyle would not go back. Like I said , if you don’t want an ev just don’t buy one. I am no Tesla fanboy . I don’t particularly like Musk and I certainly don’t like how they can sell a vehicle at one price the day before taking £5000 off the price and shafting someone but the car is a solid purchase proposition for most.
P.s how the hell is your 911 cheaper to run than an EV unless you have bought a really old version or a GT3 ?
SteveStrange said:
He's got 3 kids, so the tesla is not used for school runs, family days out etc etc. And yes the 911 is older than the Tesla, but depreciation is less. Everyone's situation is different, but to use the example I quoted above as a "normal" usage is not hugely representative, IMO.
Calling BS on this. 3 kids fit in a Tesla and there’d be zero point in having one not to use it for running family about daily.Comparing a new Tesla to the depreciation of a 17 year old 996 Porsche is irrelevant.
bennno said:
SteveStrange said:
He's got 3 kids, so the tesla is not used for school runs, family days out etc etc. And yes the 911 is older than the Tesla, but depreciation is less. Everyone's situation is different, but to use the example I quoted above as a "normal" usage is not hugely representative, IMO.
Calling BS on this. 3 kids fit in a Tesla and there’d be zero point in having one not to use it for running family about daily.Comparing a new Tesla to the depreciation of a 17 year old 996 Porsche is irrelevant.
Two drivers - husband and wife? How do you use the Tesla in 2 places at once?
Chipper said:
The cheapest new 3 series is listed at just under £39000 without options and a Tesla model 3 or as you call it an iPad on wheels is £42000. For that £42000 you get a longer warranty, MASSIVELY more kit that genuinely people want like sentry , adaptive cruse, heated seats and steering wheel , electric memory seats and full 360 camera recording while driving. It will absolutely destroy the 3 series in performance, is still MASSIVELY cheaper in running costs and if you own or even considering a work vehicle there is really no option but to buy an EV.
As in most cases it seems that people against Tesla’s and genuinely all EV’s have some pent up frustration or are simply jealous. It always seems to be “ my mate had one and could never charge it “ or “ they are crap build “ but it seems the majority of people who have worked out that an EV would suit their lifestyle would not go back. Like I said , if you don’t want an ev just don’t buy one. I am no Tesla fanboy . I don’t particularly like Musk and I certainly don’t like how they can sell a vehicle at one price the day before taking £5000 off the price and shafting someone but the car is a solid purchase proposition for most.
P.s how the hell is your 911 cheaper to run than an EV unless you have bought a really old version or a GT3 ?
Like any car, you have plusses and minuses. Tesla cars have some good plus points, but also a lot of negative points. Same for most cars and thankfully, there is plenty of choice to get the car that fits a good chuck of your own particular wish list. As in most cases it seems that people against Tesla’s and genuinely all EV’s have some pent up frustration or are simply jealous. It always seems to be “ my mate had one and could never charge it “ or “ they are crap build “ but it seems the majority of people who have worked out that an EV would suit their lifestyle would not go back. Like I said , if you don’t want an ev just don’t buy one. I am no Tesla fanboy . I don’t particularly like Musk and I certainly don’t like how they can sell a vehicle at one price the day before taking £5000 off the price and shafting someone but the car is a solid purchase proposition for most.
P.s how the hell is your 911 cheaper to run than an EV unless you have bought a really old version or a GT3 ?
Model 3 destroy a 3 series? In what area, as its certainly not destroying it in refinement, fit and finish, infotainment, noise insulation or general ride quality.
Chipper said:
As in most cases it seems that people against Tesla’s and genuinely all EV’s have some pent up frustration or are simply jealous. It always seems to be “ my mate had one and could never charge it “ or “ they are crap build “
It’s not jealously it’s just the age old resistance to change that you see in all aspects of life every day. Whether we like it or not as a species humans do not like change. If we think about anything that has been a successful change it’s because the idea has been sold to people with a desirable outcome. For a huge chunk of people with EV this hasn’t happened and for them there is no desirable outcome. This means to get people to change you apply the stick approach of banning ice etc and then the response will be to produce every blocker you can such as can’t charge etc.Even if your change is mega successful and the vast majority of people move to something new you will always get your outliers who never do. There is absolutely no difference to the electric car change than any other and people will move if or when their individual use cases are met. Some will be early adopters and some will never change. We are still really in the early adopters phase of EV
Need to replace our main car in June and I'm hoping this EV crash continues and makes it so that used models are actually a nice chunk cheaper than ordering new! Whilst I'd love an I-Pace I do think they've become a bit old, charging speeds haven't improved and they're going to be the dinosaur of the currently available EV market... So let's see what happens to the Model Y and EV6 prices.
Out of interest, anyone able to shed some light on why the VW ID4's all seem to be cheaper than the ID3's? It seems odd for the larger car, with same spec to be the cheaper option - Even stranger when considering that every man and his dog seems to want more of an SUV size rather than the hatchback ID3.
Out of interest, anyone able to shed some light on why the VW ID4's all seem to be cheaper than the ID3's? It seems odd for the larger car, with same spec to be the cheaper option - Even stranger when considering that every man and his dog seems to want more of an SUV size rather than the hatchback ID3.
J1990 said:
Need to replace our main car in June and I'm hoping this EV crash continues and makes it so that used models are actually a nice chunk cheaper than ordering new! Whilst I'd love an I-Pace I do think they've become a bit old, charging speeds haven't improved and they're going to be the dinosaur of the currently available EV market... So let's see what happens to the Model Y and EV6 prices.
Out of interest, anyone able to shed some light on why the VW ID4's all seem to be cheaper than the ID3's? It seems odd for the larger car, with same spec to be the cheaper option - Even stranger when considering that every man and his dog seems to want more of an SUV size rather than the hatchback ID3.
There’s a trim level / battery size price overlap in the first place. The ID3 has been subject to extended delivery times and not possible to order new due to the order bank…lOut of interest, anyone able to shed some light on why the VW ID4's all seem to be cheaper than the ID3's? It seems odd for the larger car, with same spec to be the cheaper option - Even stranger when considering that every man and his dog seems to want more of an SUV size rather than the hatchback ID3.
NDA said:
Are WBAC offering realistic prices?
I've just had a look at a 2021 Model 3 LR - Tesla used inventory have them at £47k. The same car, same mileage valued on WBAC is £24k - a 50% difference. Autotrader has them around £42k.
The differenceI've just had a look at a 2021 Model 3 LR - Tesla used inventory have them at £47k. The same car, same mileage valued on WBAC is £24k - a 50% difference. Autotrader has them around £42k.
WBAC are buying - price is based on a business case
Tesla and Autotrader are selling to those wearing rose tinted spectacles who want to save the planet
The depreciation hit on a second hand EV, when you drive off the forecourt, looks to be worse than it is with a new ICE car!
soupdragon1 said:
Like any car, you have plusses and minuses. Tesla cars have some good plus points, but also a lot of negative points. Same for most cars and thankfully, there is plenty of choice to get the car that fits a good chuck of your own particular wish list.
Model 3 destroy a 3 series? In what area, as its certainly not destroying it in refinement, fit and finish, infotainment, noise insulation or general ride quality.
Refinement is better by some margin in the Tesla than a ICE 3 series. I’m running on 18 inch wheels but noise due to not having an engine and ride comfort are excellent. I can’t compare it to their electric 3 series as I haven’t test driven one but I simply wouldn’t choose an EV without having the security of the charging network that Tesla offers. I also find it really annoying that manufacturers still want to charge for servicing on EV’s at similar prices to ICE vehicles but that’s just me. Model 3 destroy a 3 series? In what area, as its certainly not destroying it in refinement, fit and finish, infotainment, noise insulation or general ride quality.
Fit and finish is nowhere near at a 3 series level, but oddly the cheap and simple feel is an attraction to me and like I said, apart from the cheap seat adjustments nothing has fallen off unlike my two previous x3 m40i ( the second being a replacement for the first and then second did the same again ) that were poisoning myself and my family due to engine leaks putting dangerous amount of carbon monoxide into the cabin to which BMW gave me a huge discount on an X3m.
I think the Tesla pick up around town and near silence is a huge plus over an ICE vehicle. BMW have an excellent infotainment which imo is best in class from the ICE range but imo Tesla app and technology is still better though I would like Tesla to include lane changing in their wing mirrors not on screen which imo is just dangerous.
So BMW have the build quality and they look better and if they had a charging network I would seriously consider one but they don’t and I personally wouldn’t entertain an EV without having access to a proper and reliable charging network. So currently In the UK I wouldn’t touch an EV unless it was a Tesla.
SpeckledJim said:
flatso said:
Some people are also questioning if the EMF radiation from EV's could also have some health implications.
Ok, stay calm. We’re sending a car. Don’t be nervous. Just tell the President exactly what you told us. We’ll take care of things from there. Pack a few things, you might be away for a day or two. Don’t worry, you’ve done the right thing.
Will he see easter?
General Price said:
SpeckledJim said:
flatso said:
Some people are also questioning if the EMF radiation from EV's could also have some health implications.
Ok, stay calm. We’re sending a car. Don’t be nervous. Just tell the President exactly what you told us. We’ll take care of things from there. Pack a few things, you might be away for a day or two. Don’t worry, you’ve done the right thing.
Will he see easter?
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