EVs... no one wants them!

[biggbn]

stargazer30 said:

Yup the 5 door ICE mini is a F55, the new 3 door EV mini is a F56. Same type of mini the only difference other than the drive train is the 3 door/5 door chassis. Make wise, I've always preferred Fords having owned loads of ford hot hatches so Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.

Maybe its a getting older thing, but the EV is a lazy drive. It practically drives itself, and certainly for city driving with all the start stop, lights, junctions etc.. it just takes the grind out of it and you get to enjoy the drive again. Since I got it I've been looking for excuses to drive it.

What I don't get is all the EV hate that's been spouted. The simple fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport. The technology and infrastructure needs to mature more sure. Some folks need an ICE as they need long range and public charging needs to get faster and cheaper. What is plain bonkers is thinking ICE cars are a better long term solution. Its old tech which has been refined to its max but by its nature the design has many compromises, complexities and inefficiencies. Even then that's ignoring the dinosaur in the room (pun intended), that electricity can be generated but oil is going to run out at some point and well before that its going to get very expensive.

A 10 year old car with 120k Mike's shoukd not be on its last legs. My mini is just that and I'd like it to see 200k miles....

[stargazer30]

KingGary said:

stargazer30 said:

Fiesta's are like coming home to me but sadly my son's fiesta is on its last legs, over 10 years old with 120K+ miles on it.

I think that comes down to maintenance rather than the Fiesta being a bad car. My daughter’s is a 2008 so older, but it’s serviced every year and there’s nothing wrong with it.

Indeed, in this case it needs well over £1K to make it good, shocks, clutch, alloys refurbing... I'm not spending that on it as its his first car and the car value is too low (its stolen recovered), its just not worth it. Once he gets a bit more no claims and experience my plan was to buy him a newer fez but I stupidly gave him a little go in the EV and now he wants one of those! Hes been eyeing up older Zoes and Leafs.

[stargazer30]

Tony33 said:

That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.

I'm not saying folks shouldn't drive an ICE. Some folks love the engine note, or a manual gear box (I used to be one of them). If they want one, happy for them. What I don't like is the anti EV agenda that seems to be being pushed by certain media outlets.

[M4cruiser]

cj2013 said:

M4cruiser said:

Ok, let me make it easier for you
The first part was a genuine question.
The second part was a joke (obviously).

I would have thought the fact that you have to plug something into the side of the vehicle with a big thick dangly trip hazard might have been a bit self evident

No, it wasn't self-evident, but thank you for explaining it.

[M4cruiser]

Tony33 said:

Half of all new cars are bought by 55s and over, almost a quarter by the 65s and over.

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.

[Tony33]

M4cruiser said:

Tony33 said:

Half of all new cars are bought by 55s and over, almost a quarter by the 65s and over.

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.

Maybe but generally people are better off in that age group with less dependants, lower or no mortgages and often greater income.

[Tony33]

stargazer30 said:

Tony33 said:

That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.

I'm not saying folks shouldn't drive an ICE. Some folks love the engine note, or a manual gear box (I used to be one of them). If they want one, happy for them. What I don't like is the anti EV agenda that seems to be being pushed by certain media outlets.

Agreed, there is a lot of misinformation.

[Dave200]

stargazer30 said:

Tony33 said:

That said it is statements like "fact is they are a better solution than ICE to personal transport" that riles people (like me) that prefer the driving experience of ICE cars as of now. There are also currently scenarios - on street charging, range etc. where EVs are not the best choice. This is well known and in the case of on street charging likely not to be a simple swap of existing ICE for EVs going forward.

I'm not saying folks shouldn't drive an ICE. Some folks love the engine note, or a manual gear box (I used to be one of them). If they want one, happy for them. What I don't like is the anti EV agenda that seems to be being pushed by certain media outlets.

How do you feel about the blatant anti-ev agenda being pushed by media outlets with links to oil money and right wing think sponsors?

[PSRG]

Mark V GTD said:

Dave200 said:

I took my Tesla on a fairly long trip to visit some friends yesterday evening.

Yes but its a Tesla so it does all that you said. Any other EV would be a lot more stressful!

I’m not sure it’s a lot more stressful in any other EV anymore, though that might vary across the UK. Most cars now operate in similar way to a Tesla, but using a bigger network of chargers for routing. Having done 30k miles in the Tesla I had few years ago, and now 10k miles in an EV BMW I can’t say I’ve noticed a lot of difference. If anything, there are fewer cars at generic fast chargers than Tesla supercharger locations and the generic public ones are often better located. They do cost more however, but as less than 10% of my charging is done at them it’s doesn’t make a material difference to the overall costs. The Tesla was about 20% more efficient than the BMW though, albeit the BMW is a bigger car.

[nickfrog]

M4cruiser said:

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.

Maybe you're guessing wrong. Who knows?

[M4cruiser]

nickfrog said:

M4cruiser said:

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.

Maybe you're guessing wrong. Who knows?

Informed guess, many of the people I work with are doing exactly that, and even looking forward to it having chosen the car in advance.
Small sample in global terms, yes, but a high percentage of the retiring people I work with are buying a car.

[Unreal]

M4cruiser said:

nickfrog said:

M4cruiser said:

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.

Maybe you're guessing wrong. Who knows?

Informed guess, many of the people I work with are doing exactly that, and even looking forward to it having chosen the car in advance.
Small sample in global terms, yes, but a high percentage of the retiring people I work with are buying a car.

A significant proportion of them will be dead with five years of retirement so why not, but few people think they will be one of them. Same with the younger people moaning about older people on threads like these. A fair few will be taken by cancer, other illnesses and accidents in the next few years and won't make it to see how the predictions in these threads have panned out by 2030, let alone 2035. Best to live in the present and near future and then you're not disappointed. I doubt anyone involved in these threads will make the slightest difference to world policies so it's best not to treat the discussion too seriously. I can see it's quite nice out. Much better to go for a walk or a drive as I intend to do now, not sit wasting time arguing about the future with strangers. Doesn't matter if it's in an EV or ICE vehicle, it will be real.

[GT9]

Unreal said:

Doesn't matter if it's in an EV or ICE vehicle, it will be real.

Username checks out...

[Discombobulate]

M4cruiser said:

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.

Not true if you are a taxpaying pensioner. Only an idiot would spaff a large part of their tax free sum on a depreciating asset. But, if they can afford to, they would be even more of an idiot to borrow the whole sum from a bank. Very unlikely their pension fund would net more than the gross income required to pay off a bank loan.
Unless they only want to keep the car short term. In which case the money is best left in the pension / spent on something "sensible".

Edited by Discombobulate on Sunday 28th April 16:08

[Longy00000]

Discombobulate said:

M4cruiser said:

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.

Not true if you are a taxpaying pensioner. Only an idiot would spaff a large part of their tax free sum on a depreciating asset. But, if they can afford to, they would be even more of an idiot to borrow the whole sum from a bank. Very unlikely their pension fund would net more than the gross income required to pay off a bank loan.
Unless they only want to keep the car short term. In which case the money is best left in the pension / spent on something "sensible".

Edited by Discombobulate on Sunday 28th April 16:08

Agreed its not a clear cut decision to say using the TFC for a car is wrong as the alternatives can be equally wrong. 25% tfc is probably easier to understand or justify for a car purchase but any DB tfc would very much depend on the commutation factor surely?
In either instance i think its quite reasonable to fund a large purchase from the tfc available especially if the alternative is to borrow the funds.
I could easily argue both for and against using the tfc which confirms to me its not that clear cut.
Do we now ask whether tfc should ever be drawn to pay your mortgage off ?

[otolith]

Almost all cars are “depreciating assets” and are better thought of as costs than investments. Whether it is wise to ever spend any money at all on one with a higher cost of ownership than strictly necessary comes down to whether they need the money for something else and whether there is something else that they would rather spend the money on. Which comes down to individual means, wants, and needs.

[Roger Irrelevant]

Discombobulate said:

M4cruiser said:

^ and for the wrong reasons! Slightly O/T but I'd guess that many people use their pension "lump sum" to pay for a new car, and that's the worst thing you can do with the lump sum.
If you're going to borrow the money then borrow it from a bank, it's cheaper than borrowing it from your pension.

Not true if you are a taxpaying pensioner. Only an idiot would spaff a large part of their tax free sum on a depreciating asset. But, if they can afford to, they would be even more of an idiot to borrow the whole sum from a bank. Very unlikely their pension fund would net more than the gross income required to pay off a bank loan.
Unless they only want to keep the car short term. In which case the money is best left in the pension / spent on something "sensible".

Edited by Discombobulate on Sunday 28th April 16:08

Well come age 57 (or whenever I can access my pension) I'll be an idiot then! I don't really understand why it's such a daft thing to do if you've still got enough to live comfortably post-spaffing.

[lord trumpton]

So just returning the the thread theme

What is the current stance of the trade and EVs?

Do they not want to bid on/buy them?

If they do accept as a px are they priced super low?

[sturge7878]

lord trumpton said:

So just returning the the thread theme

What is the current stance of the trade and EVs?

Do they not want to bid on/buy them?

If they do accept as a px are they priced super low?

No change from the thread title where I am tbh. Other opinions may vary…

[confused_buyer]

lord trumpton said:

So just returning the the thread theme

What is the current stance of the trade and EVs?

Do they not want to bid on/buy them?

If they do accept as a px are they priced super low?

There are some big month to month trade book drops hitting EVs again May 1. Close on 10% for some models.

They'll presumably find a floor eventually but they haven't yet and with more and more ex PCP and lease examples hitting the market they may have a way to fall yet.