EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
TheDrownedApe said:
I have a leased (phew) iD3 on a 70 plate that's going back in April
- WABC - £21k (12 Jan quote was £24k)
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
Equivalent Golf GTE same miles/age
- WBAC - £27k
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
The id3 is two grand cheaper than the golf gte to start and the id3 are now way way overpriced compared to a Tesla model 3. Tesla’s price reduction has kicked in and destroyed the ev used market. Why would you buy something like a similar spec id3 when you can get a new sr model 3 at around the same price? Tesla has properly stuffed VW with dropping their prices and a lot of EV’s can’t compete. Watch Sandy on you tube !- WABC - £21k (12 Jan quote was £24k)
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
Equivalent Golf GTE same miles/age
- WBAC - £27k
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
Edited by Chipper on Thursday 2nd February 09:47
Chipper said:
The id3 is two grand cheaper than the golf gt3 to start and the id3 are now way way overpriced compared to a Tesla model 3. Tesla’s price reduction has kicked in and destroyed the ev used market. Why would you buy something like a similar spec id3 when you can get a new sr model 3 at around the same price? Tesla has properly stuffed VW with dropping their prices and a lot of EV’s can’t compete. Watch Sandy on you tube !
EV values were on way down long before Tesla dropped prices. At the end of the day it is capitalism/competition and actually benefits the consumer. EV prices - both new and used - need to come down to reach mass adoption. You can get a pre-reg Golf for about £20k and I can't help but feel that is where EVs need to end up to really start appealing to the masses not benefiting from BIK or 100% write downs - not £37k for a flippin' Megane for heaven's sake.
Edited by confused_buyer on Thursday 2nd February 09:47
SpeckledJim said:
The problem with EV is they're depreciating too quickly!
Personally, I don't think they are. They are just adjusting to be in line with other cars in roughly the same categories. Ultimately, why when sold out on a huge number of leases to company users why would a 2020 Model 3 actually do much better long term percentage wise than a 2010 Insignia sold in the same volume 12 years ago? Image differences aside it is still a heck of a lot of cars hitting the used market every month.
Dealers won't buy them because they don't know where the floor is and no one will bid on them at trade for same reason. This won't last forever and they will find their floor and begin to look value to will sell.
Custard time
And that’s before we consider the relative performance of the vehicles.
robbieduncan said:
IJWS15 said:
That is about what my 2.0 Diesel costs in fuel, and 2452 miles is around 2 1/2 fills. Why would I spend 20-30k more on a car that won't reduce the fuel bill.
Not had to queue for fuel that I remember since we were in France and they were on strike, cold weather doesn't bother it etc - I'm not an early adopter either.
I certainly don’t want to dispute anything but at current pricing my calculations are you would need to do 74mpg to do that. That’s an impressive average for that sort of distance.Not had to queue for fuel that I remember since we were in France and they were on strike, cold weather doesn't bother it etc - I'm not an early adopter either.
And that’s before we consider the relative performance of the vehicles.
confused_buyer said:
EV values were on way down long before Tesla dropped prices. At the end of the day it is capitalism/competition and actually benefits the consumer. EV prices - both new and used - need to come down to reach mass adoption.
You can get a pre-reg Golf for about £20k and I can't help but feel that is where EVs need to end up to really start appealing to the masses not benefiting from BIK or 100% write downs - not £37k for a flippin' Megane for heaven's sake.
£20000 is now peanuts ( in conventional terms for a new car ) and you are living in a dream thinking you can get any substantial good quality vehicle with a good warranty at that price. Inflation will not allow it and we’ve had two years already running at 10%. You can get a pre-reg Golf for about £20k and I can't help but feel that is where EVs need to end up to really start appealing to the masses not benefiting from BIK or 100% write downs - not £37k for a flippin' Megane for heaven's sake.
Edited by confused_buyer on Thursday 2nd February 09:47
The market has changed because the government are trying to increase taxation on EV’s. Electricity costs have increased and fundamentally Tesla are going to squash the market to ensure they get growth.
Let’s be honest. If you can buy a LR tesla 3 used on a 21 plate with less than 20000 miles for lets say £25000 what will be the price of a 320 be ? Do you honestly think the ICE market will just be in a different universe with regards to pricing ?
The majority of people who use vehicles do not travel from Sunderland to London every other day and the majority would find an ev easy to live with.
I appreciate there are people who cant afford them but people who cant afford expensive ice cars dont buy an M4. They buy a used focus , Hyundai ( which are great ) .
flatso said:
Some people are also questioning if the EMF radiation from EV's could also have some health implications.
Yes, it's counteracting the radiation from your mobile phone which as it's kept next to them most of the day, is making your balls glow bright red. But hey, it's all burning up the vCJD you got from eating a Burger King in 2006. Every cloud and that.
Chipper said:
£20000 is now peanuts ( in conventional terms for a new car ) and you are living in a dream thinking you can get any substantial good quality vehicle with a good warranty at that price. Inflation will not allow it and we’ve had two years already running at 10%.
It's pretty easy to find a 6 month old Golf with under 3k miles for £20k. You can have a brand spanking new one for £23-£24k before haggling. You can get a brand new i30 for £20k.As for the 320d I agree EVs will end up following a similar pattern. A 520d is about £42k after a bit of negotiation, same as a Model 3. 3 year old 520ds with about 30k are fetching £20k in trade and about £15k with 80k miles. So that's probably where Model 3s will end up.
Incidentally I do think Tesla have more sensible pricing. I can see the point of a £40k new Model 3 SR but struggle with a £35k Peugeot 208 or £30k+ FIAT 500.
Edited by confused_buyer on Thursday 2nd February 10:09
So here is my problem.
Been after a £40-45K small BEV (nearly new) ever since I had my home charger fitted 6 months ago.
Had a list running on AT for sometime and I have just noticed £3k price drops across the board.
This must be the Tesla 3 price drop effect.
Seen a car which is 71 reg 15K on clock but is £47K (after price drop)
Could I get this within my budget or should I just wait.
Range is listed as 260 so real world (cold weather is 200 so not that great) (urban and motorways).
Been after a £40-45K small BEV (nearly new) ever since I had my home charger fitted 6 months ago.
Had a list running on AT for sometime and I have just noticed £3k price drops across the board.
This must be the Tesla 3 price drop effect.
Seen a car which is 71 reg 15K on clock but is £47K (after price drop)
Could I get this within my budget or should I just wait.
Range is listed as 260 so real world (cold weather is 200 so not that great) (urban and motorways).
confused_buyer said:
SpeckledJim said:
The problem with EV is they're depreciating too quickly!
Personally, I don't think they are. They are just adjusting to be in line with other cars in roughly the same categories. Ultimately, why when sold out on a huge number of leases to company users why would a 2020 Model 3 actually do much better long term percentage wise than a 2010 Insignia sold in the same volume 12 years ago? Image differences aside it is still a heck of a lot of cars hitting the used market every month.
Dealers won't buy them because they don't know where the floor is and no one will bid on them at trade for same reason. This won't last forever and they will find their floor and begin to look value to will sell.
Someone here is not giving up on EVs.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/a...
p.s. my other half would still manage to curb the alloys.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/a...
p.s. my other half would still manage to curb the alloys.
Greenmantle said:
So here is my problem.
Been after a £40-45K small BEV (nearly new) ever since I had my home charger fitted 6 months ago.
Had a list running on AT for sometime and I have just noticed £3k price drops across the board.
This must be the Tesla 3 price drop effect.
Seen a car which is 71 reg 15K on clock but is £47K (after price drop)
Could I get this within my budget or should I just wait.
Range is listed as 260 so real world (cold weather is 200 so not that great) (urban and motorways).
One way to find out: ask (nicely).Been after a £40-45K small BEV (nearly new) ever since I had my home charger fitted 6 months ago.
Had a list running on AT for sometime and I have just noticed £3k price drops across the board.
This must be the Tesla 3 price drop effect.
Seen a car which is 71 reg 15K on clock but is £47K (after price drop)
Could I get this within my budget or should I just wait.
Range is listed as 260 so real world (cold weather is 200 so not that great) (urban and motorways).
You might meet a man who very desperately needs a bit of cash.
To put it simple how i feel.
Tesla have really hammered the market. Because they didnt reach their selling targets ( understandably due to increased electic cost and pricing of their vehicle were too high ) a lot of people got nervous. They have moved aggressively by cutting the price of their entire range. Every other manufacturer cannot compete with Tesla on manufacturing cost and they have the one thing every EV manufacturer needs which is The charging Network.
The reason people are struggling selling their ev’s back to dealers is simple. A lot of them are carrying already ev stock and they’re crying. Everything lost £5000 over night and some more than that.
Dealer dont want to see an Ev as they have already used stock that they have overpaid for and need to feed the loss through the system. I would also be very nervous taking on EV stock as the entire market has to change their prices or die so nobody wants to buy anything as yet as like Ford have just done and dropped their prices by a similar amount. Everyone need to watch Sandy explain how strong a position Tesla are in.
It will feed through eventually but fundamentally all these EV’s are becoming stuck as the network is nowhere even close to Tesla.
In essence dont buy any other EV if you need to travel around the country as they are crap. If you dont like Musk or Tesla dont buy an EV and stick with an ICE vehicle.
Tesla have really hammered the market. Because they didnt reach their selling targets ( understandably due to increased electic cost and pricing of their vehicle were too high ) a lot of people got nervous. They have moved aggressively by cutting the price of their entire range. Every other manufacturer cannot compete with Tesla on manufacturing cost and they have the one thing every EV manufacturer needs which is The charging Network.
The reason people are struggling selling their ev’s back to dealers is simple. A lot of them are carrying already ev stock and they’re crying. Everything lost £5000 over night and some more than that.
Dealer dont want to see an Ev as they have already used stock that they have overpaid for and need to feed the loss through the system. I would also be very nervous taking on EV stock as the entire market has to change their prices or die so nobody wants to buy anything as yet as like Ford have just done and dropped their prices by a similar amount. Everyone need to watch Sandy explain how strong a position Tesla are in.
It will feed through eventually but fundamentally all these EV’s are becoming stuck as the network is nowhere even close to Tesla.
In essence dont buy any other EV if you need to travel around the country as they are crap. If you dont like Musk or Tesla dont buy an EV and stick with an ICE vehicle.
Chipper said:
TheDrownedApe said:
I have a leased (phew) iD3 on a 70 plate that's going back in April
- WABC - £21k (12 Jan quote was £24k)
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
Equivalent Golf GTE same miles/age
- WBAC - £27k
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
The id3 is two grand cheaper than the golf gt3 to start and the id3 are now way way overpriced compared to a Tesla model 3. Tesla’s price reduction has kicked in and destroyed the ev used market. Why would you buy something like a similar spec id3 when you can get a new sr model 3 at around the same price? Tesla has properly stuffed VW with dropping their prices and a lot of EV’s can’t compete. Watch Sandy on you tube !- WABC - £21k (12 Jan quote was £24k)
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
Equivalent Golf GTE same miles/age
- WBAC - £27k
- Cheapest on AT - £31k
VW have been in this game long enough to know how to manage their business through all sorts of challenges. Mark my words, but Tesla are on the road to shooting themselves in the foot on pricing strategy. Customers will already be acutely aware of lack of residual protection from buying a Tesla, something the established automakers have finely polished.
End of quarter incentives will be coming next month (again) free supercharger miles, or cheaper cars from inventory for example, just like last quarter. Do that again this quarter and you've basically trained customers to wait until the end of quarter discounts/incentives come.
A bit like McVities Jaffa cakes. Not many people pay full price anymore, as they're almost permanently on offer in some shape or form. Customers have been trained to know that there is another 'special offer' on its way and thats whats going to happen to Tesla. Its a school boy error in pricing strategy but Tesla are about to walk straight into it.
You've only a few weeks to wait to watch this prediction come true....
Chipper said:
To put it simple how i feel.
Tesla have really hammered the market. Because they didnt reach their selling targets ( understandably due to increased electic cost and pricing of their vehicle were too high ) a lot of people got nervous. They have moved aggressively by cutting the price of their entire range. Every other manufacturer cannot compete with Tesla on manufacturing cost and they have the one thing every EV manufacturer needs which is The charging Network.
The reason people are struggling selling their ev’s back to dealers is simple. A lot of them are carrying already ev stock and they’re crying. Everything lost £5000 over night and some more than that.
Dealer dont want to see an Ev as they have already used stock that they have overpaid for and need to feed the loss through the system. I would also be very nervous taking on EV stock as the entire market has to change their prices or die so nobody wants to buy anything as yet as like Ford have just done and dropped their prices by a similar amount. Everyone need to watch Sandy explain how strong a position Tesla are in.
It will feed through eventually but fundamentally all these EV’s are becoming stuck as the network is nowhere even close to Tesla.
In essence buy a cheap used EV if you need to travel around the country as they are getting great value. If you don't like Musk or Tesla there are plenty of other to choose from.
Not disputing how you feel but fixed that for youTesla have really hammered the market. Because they didnt reach their selling targets ( understandably due to increased electic cost and pricing of their vehicle were too high ) a lot of people got nervous. They have moved aggressively by cutting the price of their entire range. Every other manufacturer cannot compete with Tesla on manufacturing cost and they have the one thing every EV manufacturer needs which is The charging Network.
The reason people are struggling selling their ev’s back to dealers is simple. A lot of them are carrying already ev stock and they’re crying. Everything lost £5000 over night and some more than that.
Dealer dont want to see an Ev as they have already used stock that they have overpaid for and need to feed the loss through the system. I would also be very nervous taking on EV stock as the entire market has to change their prices or die so nobody wants to buy anything as yet as like Ford have just done and dropped their prices by a similar amount. Everyone need to watch Sandy explain how strong a position Tesla are in.
It will feed through eventually but fundamentally all these EV’s are becoming stuck as the network is nowhere even close to Tesla.
In essence buy a cheap used EV if you need to travel around the country as they are getting great value. If you don't like Musk or Tesla there are plenty of other to choose from.
Long term Tesla's move is welcome. EVs *have* to come down to sensible levels unless the whole car market isn't to go tits up.
I'm sure someone still has a £5000 1988 mobile phone somewhere moaning the prices dropped.
Competition is good. It drives innovation and drives better products. If other manufacturers struggle then they need to get their act together.
In truth I expect *all* EVs are making huge margins at the moment because as a new product they are pricing what they think the market will bear. Like anything new they'll come down to mainstream pricing and this is the start of that.
As for used prices they were a bubble which will adjust to more normal car depreciation patterns (i.e. average of about 50% retained after 3 years) and it'll work its self through the market and settle down.
I'm sure someone still has a £5000 1988 mobile phone somewhere moaning the prices dropped.
Competition is good. It drives innovation and drives better products. If other manufacturers struggle then they need to get their act together.
In truth I expect *all* EVs are making huge margins at the moment because as a new product they are pricing what they think the market will bear. Like anything new they'll come down to mainstream pricing and this is the start of that.
As for used prices they were a bubble which will adjust to more normal car depreciation patterns (i.e. average of about 50% retained after 3 years) and it'll work its self through the market and settle down.
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