EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
CivicDuties said:
I've been enjoying driving a Nissan Leaf for 7 years, and so far as I'm aware my immortal soul (if it exists) remains undestroyed. It's fun, comfortable, and I like it.
That's fine if that suits you and fair play but I live in the countryside and after a long day I just love to let my hair down and a rwd sports car is my replacement for fags and booze 
BricktopST205 said:
Muzzer79 said:
+1
We have two cars and we're not ready for two EVs yet - we need an ICE for those rare times when an EV isn't suitable.
But the ICE car does, by far and away, the least mileage in our household.
I'd like to see what road tax savings I could make by getting rid of the EV, as Bricktop suggests........
I was referring to the road tax of the second car. Please learn to read but as he pointed out he is a two car family which is fine. The way he worded his initial post was that he just kept the second car there as a spare for long journeys.We have two cars and we're not ready for two EVs yet - we need an ICE for those rare times when an EV isn't suitable.
But the ICE car does, by far and away, the least mileage in our household.
I'd like to see what road tax savings I could make by getting rid of the EV, as Bricktop suggests........
BricktopST205 said:
braddo said:
Which depending on the mileage being done in the EV, could easily be more cost effective than having 1 car of the equivalent value of the 2-car solution.
I could do the same. I have 4 cars. I could buy a Nissan Leaf for 2-3k. My commute is 6 miles and the wife 12 so absolutely tiny. That car would be perfect although soul destroying on the drive home. That costs us £1500 in fuel a year. I could charge at work so in 3-4 years I could break even when factoring extra insurance and servicing. Edited by braddo on Friday 10th May 10:42
Year 5 I would be saving about a grand a year but I am more than happy to spend £83 a month or £41 each to drive something that gives us enjoyment on our daily commute.
I guess it just depends on your priorities.
If you're that keen on pushing the tread off the tyres at 0800am on a cold Wednesday morning then I guess you will need to stick to your 4 sports cars.
MightyBadger said:
braddo said:
Remember, people who get enjoyment on a driving commute are a very, very small % of the national total!
Depends where you live. Have enjoyed every commute for many years.There's people who live on the best driving roads who couldn't give a stuff.
Muzzer79 said:
BricktopST205 said:
Muzzer79 said:
+1
We have two cars and we're not ready for two EVs yet - we need an ICE for those rare times when an EV isn't suitable.
But the ICE car does, by far and away, the least mileage in our household.
I'd like to see what road tax savings I could make by getting rid of the EV, as Bricktop suggests........
I was referring to the road tax of the second car. Please learn to read but as he pointed out he is a two car family which is fine. The way he worded his initial post was that he just kept the second car there as a spare for long journeys.We have two cars and we're not ready for two EVs yet - we need an ICE for those rare times when an EV isn't suitable.
But the ICE car does, by far and away, the least mileage in our household.
I'd like to see what road tax savings I could make by getting rid of the EV, as Bricktop suggests........
BricktopST205 said:
braddo said:
Which depending on the mileage being done in the EV, could easily be more cost effective than having 1 car of the equivalent value of the 2-car solution.
I could do the same. I have 4 cars. I could buy a Nissan Leaf for 2-3k. My commute is 6 miles and the wife 12 so absolutely tiny. That car would be perfect although soul destroying on the drive home. That costs us £1500 in fuel a year. I could charge at work so in 3-4 years I could break even when factoring extra insurance and servicing. Edited by braddo on Friday 10th May 10:42
Year 5 I would be saving about a grand a year but I am more than happy to spend £83 a month or £41 each to drive something that gives us enjoyment on our daily commute.
I guess it just depends on your priorities.
If you're that keen on pushing the tread off the tyres at 0800am on a cold Wednesday morning then I guess you will need to stick to your 4 sports cars.
My commute is basically next to Cadwell park so in theory your nurburgring reference is not far off. I could in theory finish my work drive to Cadwell park, do an evening session on a Wednesday and still get home quicker than someone in their EV commuting to London from Hatfield every day!
MrTrilby said:
survivalist said:
Our car doesn’t talk to the smart energy providers so we are paying 25p per kWh which works out about 10p per mile.
Looked at cheap tariffs but didn’t really make sense for multiple reasons.
April was a particularly cheap month and cost us 8.2p per kWh.
And you don’t need anything fancier than a smart meter to sign up.
With trackers is there not a risk of paying a large amount if you need the bulk of your energy during the day?
The EV charging is a very small part of our energy consumption (less than 10%, maybe even 5%)
braddo said:
BricktopST205 said:
... enjoyment on our daily commute. ...
Remember, people who get enjoyment on a driving commute are a very, very small % of the national total! Fun behind the wheel is essentially on track days, and I don't even commute anywhere.
monkfish1 said:
survivalist said:
monkfish1 said:
That last sentance is where the wheels come off your plan.
Ive said this before, but ill do it again. Once EV's reach critical mass, lets say over 50%, which assuming the mandates are met will be in the 10-15 year window from now.
As Evanivitch has already pointed out, petrol stations are in decline already and have been for a long time. What do you think will happen when 50% of their market and hence their revenue stream is gone?
Clue, they will stop selling petrol the second its no longer profitable and use the site for something else. Bearing in mind the fixed overheads are considerable.
Whilst im sure petrol will be available in 20 years, at a price, it wont be freely available whereever and whenever you need it. It will become a mission to plan a journey around the availability of it. As that gets harder, interest in ICE will wane fast, as essentially, they will become useless.
Against that backdrop, i still say investing in your GR86 for the long term is bonkers. In 25 years time, almost no one will be interested.
But your money, so do as you please.
Doesn’t currently look like the mandates will be met though. There’s been little movement in market share in the last 2 years. Ive said this before, but ill do it again. Once EV's reach critical mass, lets say over 50%, which assuming the mandates are met will be in the 10-15 year window from now.
As Evanivitch has already pointed out, petrol stations are in decline already and have been for a long time. What do you think will happen when 50% of their market and hence their revenue stream is gone?
Clue, they will stop selling petrol the second its no longer profitable and use the site for something else. Bearing in mind the fixed overheads are considerable.
Whilst im sure petrol will be available in 20 years, at a price, it wont be freely available whereever and whenever you need it. It will become a mission to plan a journey around the availability of it. As that gets harder, interest in ICE will wane fast, as essentially, they will become useless.
Against that backdrop, i still say investing in your GR86 for the long term is bonkers. In 25 years time, almost no one will be interested.
But your money, so do as you please.
Legacy manufacturers are talking about restricting ICE sales to avoid fines. We also still have big tax breaks for adopting EVs that seem to have reached their limit of influence in terms of said adoption.
Even if ICE sales are artificially restricted, it only helps ‘fix’ the percentage - the UK ‘fleet’ will get replaced at a slower rate, so ICE will cling on longer.
Regardless of the reasons, the demand just isn’t there currently.
Though i still think my point stands on petrol, albeit, that it is tied to the progress of EV's.
Dont forget we have a new government inbound who appear to be totally commited. I suspect large quantities of cash will he hosed to incentivise purchases. And its clear it needs to be elsewhere other than fleet and business users.
If you want one, i say sit tight and wait for the free cash.
Not convinced it will work out cheaper though, but fits the use case.
The incoming government look as clueless as the current one, but they won't be able to force car manufacturers to sell at a loss. So unless the approach is even bigger tax advantages or subsidies I can't see petrol availability being an issue for a very long time.
That said, it's a reminder to use the fun ICE as much as possible, just in case
BricktopST205 said:
braddo said:
Which depending on the mileage being done in the EV, could easily be more cost effective than having 1 car of the equivalent value of the 2-car solution.
I could do the same. I have 4 cars. I could buy a Nissan Leaf for 2-3k. My commute is 6 miles and the wife 12 so absolutely tiny. That car would be perfect although soul destroying on the drive home. That costs us £1500 in fuel a year. I could charge at work so in 3-4 years I could break even when factoring extra insurance and servicing. Edited by braddo on Friday 10th May 10:42
Year 5 I would be saving about a grand a year but I am more than happy to spend £83 a month or £41 each to drive something that gives us enjoyment on our daily commute.
I guess it just depends on your priorities.
nickfrog said:
dmsims said:
Rather put my money here:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404148...
Yes it's the obvious competition at that price point. Tough choice and will probably depend on range needs. I don't know about their respective reliability though?https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404148...
riskyj said:
It’s a shame about the door setup, otherwise these seem like a good buy.
I prefer the Mazda as it feels far more expensive but the Pug might make more sense.
Have lppked hard at Pug 308 Est, 508 Est, even the 408 version of the C5X and the killer each time for me is that cockpit, it looks nice design in many ways but just doesn't work for me.
As for the door setup it struck me that though it's unconventional there could be the potential if you're in a very tight parking space and someone has parked up a bit close, there could be the opportunity to unlatch and open the front door slightly, unlatch and open the rear door, which being a small door can open further, then together with a partially open front you have a nice wide space for a fat git to slide in with less risk of diging doors. Again it's very subjective choice.
MightyBadger said:
Muzzer79 said:
No, it depends on if you're a driving enthusiast and then depends on where you live.
Not for me, if I lived in London (or somewhere as traffic chocked) I doubt I would enjoy the commute despite being an enthusiast 
You have to be an enthusiast first (for you, tick) and then you have to live somewhere where the commute can be fun (for you, tick).
If you weren't an enthusiast in the first place you wouldn't enjoy commuting no matter where you live. Most of your neighbours would find your commute a chore (because they don't get enjoyment from driving).
braddo said:
You are unwittingly agreeing with Muzzer.
You have to be an enthusiast first (for you, tick) and then you have to live somewhere where the commute can be fun (for you, tick).
If you weren't an enthusiast in the first place you wouldn't enjoy commuting no matter where you live. Most of your neighbours would find your commute a chore (because they don't get enjoyment from driving).
You are right You have to be an enthusiast first (for you, tick) and then you have to live somewhere where the commute can be fun (for you, tick).
If you weren't an enthusiast in the first place you wouldn't enjoy commuting no matter where you live. Most of your neighbours would find your commute a chore (because they don't get enjoyment from driving).
Apologies, a bit slower than usual at the minute. Very blessed to have the commute I do, chose to live here for that exact reason.
Muzzer79 said:
+1
We have two cars and we're not ready for two EVs yet - we need an ICE for those rare times when an EV isn't suitable.
But the ICE car does, by far and away, the least mileage in our household.
I'd like to see what road tax savings I could make by getting rid of the EV, as Bricktop suggests........
+2We have two cars and we're not ready for two EVs yet - we need an ICE for those rare times when an EV isn't suitable.
But the ICE car does, by far and away, the least mileage in our household.
I'd like to see what road tax savings I could make by getting rid of the EV, as Bricktop suggests........
We need two cars, we live in a village at the very end of a B road which is 2 miles from the next village. We have one small shop and there is not even a pathway on the B road so you can't even walk/cycle safely to the next village. We have two aggregate companies down here so all day long trucks are up and down so you wouldn't want to walk/cycle it either, usually at least one death a year.
We both work different times, child in nursery in the next village etc so a second car is a must for us. Even the busses are hourly.
Could we do a second EV? Hmmmm, probably if I am honest but I am not just not ready for that yet, we do a few longer trips each year and I am not ready to commit to stopping for 20-30 minutes to charge. Once used EV prices come down and we could get a 400 mile range one for similar cost to our existing ICE car, I may consider it.
740EVTORQUES said:
Isn't it annoying to have just warmed your engine up and be ready for some full on commuting fun when you arrive at your destination? 6 miles is not long to get the oil up to temperature. At least with a performance EV you could enjoy it from the minute you turn it on as they don't need warming up?
I can still have plenty of fun whilst only revving it out to 6krpm till it warms up. When your car only weighs 1.2 tonne it doesn't take much to have some fun. Some days I will even go the long way home just because I can. As for enjoying a performance EV which ones of those have 3 pedals and a 6 speed in the centre console?I am a dinosaur but as they say "You only live once".
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff