EVs... no one wants them!

[GT9]

Longy00000 said:

I love this thread there really is an awful lot of eco clap trap on here.

Anyone who truly believes China is an eco saviour is simply mad. Go buy a ticket to china, take some pictures and share the reality with us.

I'm aware of a few videos now starting to appear showing the real eco credentials of China v their claimed and published data.
If i can be arsed to dig them out I might post links or you could just do it yourselves.

Let me guess, a youtube channel by some bloke who got made redundant from his job as a florist during COVID and is now the world's preeminent authority on all things climate, energy, mining and minerals.

[DonkeyApple]

Longy00000 said:

I love this thread there really is an awful lot of eco clap trap on here.

Anyone who truly believes China is an eco saviour is simply mad. Go buy a ticket to china, take some pictures and share the reality with us.

I'm aware of a few videos now starting to appear showing the real eco credentials of China v their claimed and published data.
If i can be arsed to dig them out I might post links or you could just do it yourselves.

Not sure anyone has said China is some kind of eco saviour. That sounds like a wholly fabricated event?

What most know is that Chinese manufacturing is a mess but that's why we sent it there. It was dirt cheap due to ultra weak labour practices and close to non existent environmental compliance costs and it got it all off our books.

The big question for the West is whether it wishes to keep having its goods manufactured in that environment or to bring it home and do it more cleanly but much more expensively which will cause Western consumers to just buy from India or whichever the next discount manufacturer Img nation will be.

The other solution would be for folks to simply stop buying so much complete st which would trigger a total economic collapse in China and a swift decline in pollution. Otherwise someone has to make all this rubbish people want and at a price their credit provider allows.

[BricktopST205]

Maracus said:

The same with petrol or diesel if you are running low. No difference.

Not if you got a petrol can in the back.

[Maracus]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

The same with petrol or diesel if you are running low. No difference.

Not if you got a petrol can in the back.

So you always have a can of petrol in your car on your autobahn trips

I'm sure your passengers would have appreciated it!

[moktabe]

GT9 said:

Longy00000 said:

I love this thread there really is an awful lot of eco clap trap on here.

Anyone who truly believes China is an eco saviour is simply mad. Go buy a ticket to china, take some pictures and share the reality with us.

I'm aware of a few videos now starting to appear showing the real eco credentials of China v their claimed and published data.
If i can be arsed to dig them out I might post links or you could just do it yourselves.

Let me guess, a youtube channel by some bloke who got made redundant from his job as a florist during COVID and is now the world's preeminent authority on all things climate, energy, mining and minerals.

I assumed that expert was you.

So, your thoughts on China building coal powered power stations as fast as they can?

Or are you too busy being a smart ass denigrating people like Longy because you didn't agree with what he posted?

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

Not sure anyone has said China is some kind of eco saviour. That sounds like a wholly fabricated event?

No, someone thought that because China is still pissing in the pool to some extent there's no reason we shouldn't take a dump in it.

[DonkeyApple]

Maracus said:

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

The same with petrol or diesel if you are running low. No difference.

Not if you got a petrol can in the back.

So you always have a can of petrol in your car on your autobahn trips

I'm sure your passengers would have appreciated it!

That's a slightly odd post to be honest. It is the precise purpose of the spare fuel can. Although I once met a chap who didn't realise that you were supposed to put fuel in them. He actually thought you drive around with it empty so that if you ran out of fuel you could take it with you and start walking around looking for fuel. I think he'd been dropped from a height by his mum at some point.

[GT9]

moktabe said:

I assumed that expert was you.

So, your thoughts on China building coal powered power stations as fast as they can?

Or are you too busy being a smart ass denigrating people like Longy because you didn't agree with what he posted?

I try to reply to posts in the style in which they were delivered.
I felt that opening with 'eco claptrap' earned a similarly fruity response.
China.
Tough one, when you've got 1.5 billion people, and the same again in Westerners hooked on what those people are producing you are definitely not going to make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
It should go without saying, nobody can simply arrive at net zero.
All pathways have a front end hit because more stuff needs to be made.
Burning stuff unnecessarily is undesirable, but if it's part of a sound plan to arrive at the right destination, I'm personally happy to cut some slack.
The worst thing anyone can do now is start chasing rainbows, because, as already said, ALL pathways have a carbon hit.
Working out the details and understanding the risks and rewards of each pathway and how they intertwine with each other, both in-sector and across sectors, is not the work of a morning.
Which is unfortunately what you get 9 times out of 10 in the latest 'must see' youchoob video.

[Maracus]

DonkeyApple said:

Maracus said:

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

The same with petrol or diesel if you are running low. No difference.

Not if you got a petrol can in the back.

So you always have a can of petrol in your car on your autobahn trips

I'm sure your passengers would have appreciated it!

That's a slightly odd post to be honest. It is the precise purpose of the spare fuel can. Although I once met a chap who didn't realise that you were supposed to put fuel in them. He actually thought you drive around with it empty so that if you ran out of fuel you could take it with you and start walking around looking for fuel. I think he'd been dropped from a height by his mum at some point.

Not really, the smell of a petrol can on a long trip on an autobahn would not be pleasant, it's not something I'd ever taken with me on trips through Europe. My Mrs would have got rid asap.

Your story about the fuel can has made me laugh

[Muzzer79]

BricktopST205 said:

confused_buyer said:

I'm not sure European manufacturers are too keen on tariffs. Most of them make most of their profits in China and China will most probably retaliate.

Yeah legacy vehicle manufacturers are basically buggered (Parts suppliers/peoples jobs and livelyhoods are already threatened) if things continue but what will happen instead is a lot of brown envelopes will happen and the 2035 mandate will get pushed back if not scrapped. Public uptake and trust of EV's will be completely ruined and it will just collapse.

Lets face it the uptake of EV's in this country at least is not natural and only because of potential savings through salary sacrifice. Government doesn't want to give grants so it is basically dead in the water already.

I mean it is not the first time governments have gone back huge expensive failings. (Looks at HS2)

You think car manufacturers are just going to give up the billions they have invested and are investing in EV's?

Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.

This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.

EV is happening whether you like it or not.

[moktabe]

GT9 said:

moktabe said:

I assumed that expert was you.

So, your thoughts on China building coal powered power stations as fast as they can?

Or are you too busy being a smart ass denigrating people like Longy because you didn't agree with what he posted?

I try to reply to posts in the style in which they were delivered.
I felt that opening with 'eco claptrap' earned a similarly fruity response.
China.
Tough one, when you've got 1.5 billion people, and the same again in Westerners hooked on what those people are producing you are definitely not going to make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
It should go without saying, nobody can simply arrive at net zero.
All pathways have a front end hit because more stuff needs to be made.
Burning stuff unnecessarily is undesirable, but if it's part of a sound plan to arrive at the right destination, I'm personally happy to cut some slack.
The worst thing anyone can do now is start chasing rainbows, because, as already said, ALL pathways have a carbon hit.
Working out the details and understanding the risks and rewards of each pathway and how they intertwine with each other, both in-sector and across sectors, is not the work of a morning.
Which is unfortunately what you get 9 times out of 10 in the latest 'must see' youchoob video.

I appreciate the genuine answer.

[nickfrog]

If you really want to be compliant in France it's max 5L, the jerry can needs to be homologated and you need to also carry x2 extinguishers (again those have to be compliant and within date).

Pedantic of Sussex.

[tamore]

GT9 said:

I try to reply to posts in the style in which they were delivered.
I felt that opening with 'eco claptrap' earned a similarly fruity response.
China.
Tough one, when you've got 1.5 billion people, and the same again in Westerners hooked on what those people are producing you are definitely not going to make an omelette without breaking some eggs.
It should go without saying, nobody can simply arrive at net zero.
All pathways have a front end hit because more stuff needs to be made.
Burning stuff unnecessarily is undesirable, but if it's part of a sound plan to arrive at the right destination, I'm personally happy to cut some slack.
The worst thing anyone can do now is start chasing rainbows, because, as already said, ALL pathways have a carbon hit.
Working out the details and understanding the risks and rewards of each pathway and how they intertwine with each other, both in-sector and across sectors, is not the work of a morning.
Which is unfortunately what you get 9 times out of 10 in the latest 'must see' youchoob video.

the poster boy for this is minerals for batteries. mining is a pretty grubby business as it stands in terms of emissions, and general environmental impact. but once mined, in the medium to long term the goal should be to recycle these minerals and not dig new stuff out. i saw a presentation that reckoned by 2050 we should gave all the minerals out of the ground to run a zero carbon economy. needs proper planning, connected thinking and political will together there though. quite a mountain to climb. (or mine )

then you have fossil fuels……….. just grubby.

Edited by tamore on Tuesday 14th May 17:52

[DonkeyApple]

Maracus said:

DonkeyApple said:

Maracus said:

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

The same with petrol or diesel if you are running low. No difference.

Not if you got a petrol can in the back.

So you always have a can of petrol in your car on your autobahn trips

I'm sure your passengers would have appreciated it!

That's a slightly odd post to be honest. It is the precise purpose of the spare fuel can. Although I once met a chap who didn't realise that you were supposed to put fuel in them. He actually thought you drive around with it empty so that if you ran out of fuel you could take it with you and start walking around looking for fuel. I think he'd been dropped from a height by his mum at some point.

Not really, the smell of a petrol can on a long trip on an autobahn would not be pleasant, it's not something I'd ever taken with me on trips through Europe. My Mrs would have got rid asap.

Your story about the fuel can has made me laugh

I did assume the poster kept his spare can in the boot rather than inside the cabin.

[BricktopST205]

Maracus said:

Not really, the smell of a petrol can on a long trip on an autobahn would not be pleasant, it's not something I'd ever taken with me on trips through Europe. My Mrs would have got rid asap.

Your story about the fuel can has made me laugh

My mother has been a expat since 2011 and I have always carried a 5 litre can for emergency purposes and one year it came in handy in the very situation I mentioned as there was a massive accident on the Autobahn (It happens quite a lot really and the myth about Germans being good drivers isn't really true) and we had to divert and ended up going more North than we liked and to come back around to our intended route. Fuel light came on and the 5 litres used and we managed to find a station that was opened at night without problem.

This was before google maps really took off so it is most likely a lot easier now although I use my Garmin Truck Nav on the continent as it has everything on there but even back in 2016 when it happened navigation was still pretty rubbish.

Never get any petrol smell in the cabin because the cans are sealed.......

[Maracus]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

Not really, the smell of a petrol can on a long trip on an autobahn would not be pleasant, it's not something I'd ever taken with me on trips through Europe. My Mrs would have got rid asap.

Your story about the fuel can has made me laugh

My mother has been a expat since 2011 and I have always carried a 5 litre can for emergency purposes and one year it came in handy in the very situation I mentioned as there was a massive accident on the Autobahn (It happens quite a lot really and the myth about Germans being good drivers isn't really true) and we had to divert and ended up going more North than we liked and to come back around to our intended route. Fuel light came on and the 5 litres used and we managed to find a station that was opened at night without problem.

This was before google maps really took off so it is most likely a lot easier now although I use my Garmin Truck Nav on the continent as it has everything on there but even back in 2016 when it happened navigation was still pretty rubbish.

Never get any petrol smell in the cabin because the cans are sealed.......

I used to carry one about with me 20 years ago when I was a field engineer, it did smell and was sealed.

As for running out of electric, never been close in over 4 years of driving around Europe and the UK. I've been closer with running out of dinojuice in the past, but that was just me risking it for the sake of stopping.

[GT9]

tamore said:

then you have fossil fuels……….. just grubby.

High octane juice excepted.

[BricktopST205]

Maracus said:

I used to carry one about with me 20 years ago when I was a field engineer, it did smell and was sealed.

As for running out of electric, never been close in over 4 years of driving around Europe and the UK. I've been closer with running out of dinojuice in the past, but that was just me risking it for the sake of stopping.

You would have ran out of electric if you was driving to my timeframes unfortunately.

[Maracus]

BricktopST205 said:

Maracus said:

I used to carry one about with me 20 years ago when I was a field engineer, it did smell and was sealed.

As for running out of electric, never been close in over 4 years of driving around Europe and the UK. I've been closer with running out of dinojuice in the past, but that was just me risking it for the sake of stopping.

You would have ran out of electric if you was driving to my timeframes unfortunately.

Well, I haven't driving to mine

[Mikebentley]

FiF said:

loudlashadjuster said:

Mikehig said:

Autocar is reporting that Mercedes is scaling back plans for development of EV platforms and reducing sales projections:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/report...

Have they tried maybe, oh I dunno, making their EV cars less st? That might help with sales.

Rather a fair point.

I’ve just switched my EV from an MG4 to a Smart #1 and it’s brilliant and makes the MG feel like an FSO Polonez by comparison.