EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Unreal said:
romft123 said:
Agree with the above 100%. The very vocal, I am not going to get an EV ever folks seem weird to me, telling us all what THEY dont want? If YOU dont want to buy an EV, then....errrr dont buy one. BUT dont try and spin BS etc. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one. The vast majority of EV owners ALSO own an ICE. And have driven an ICE car for quite a while before deciding that an EV .....IS FOR THEM! The vast majority of anti EV folks have NEVER driven an EV and are very vocal that they have no desire to do so. Well fill your boots, AND DONT BUY ONE THEN. And NO , I dont own an EV.
U ok hun?romft123 said:
Unreal said:
romft123 said:
Agree with the above 100%. The very vocal, I am not going to get an EV ever folks seem weird to me, telling us all what THEY dont want? If YOU dont want to buy an EV, then....errrr dont buy one. BUT dont try and spin BS etc. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one. The vast majority of EV owners ALSO own an ICE. And have driven an ICE car for quite a while before deciding that an EV .....IS FOR THEM! The vast majority of anti EV folks have NEVER driven an EV and are very vocal that they have no desire to do so. Well fill your boots, AND DONT BUY ONE THEN. And NO , I dont own an EV.
U ok hun?CheesecakeRunner said:
Unreal said:
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment
You’re just as bad. It’s a f
king Yaris, not a Ferrari. It’s a bodykitted and breathed on version of what is sold to old people to go and pick up their pension in. “The car in front is a Toyota”. Yeah, only because it’s going so slow and all over the road being driven by an old biddy you can’t f
king overtake it. romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Fox- said:
romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Fox- said:
romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Unreal said:
That's the current plan but it has changed once already. Advocates and governments are trying to hold the line but plenty of time for more events and more changes. 2035 is a long way off and given current progress they'd just set themselves up to fail by bringing it forward. Far more important things to worry about such as China taking Taiwan, Vlad occupying Ukraine and Israel nuking Tehran.
We've left 2035 legally open so changes can be made if needed. The key is that you still want to keep those who can switch doing so as we head towards 2035 as their adoption will drive the creation of the infrastructure required for those to start switching in the 2040s, which the ZEV Mandate will probably do quite nicely. For folks who really wish to keep using ICE for the next 20-30 years then planning ahead is all that is required. People who can't think, can't work out a basic plan or who prefer to spend the next decade railing against the change will just be making their own problems.
otolith said:
The change in plan was dropping a requirement for hybrids from 2030, the EV date hasn't changed.
The 2035 UK ICE ban will get kicked into touch when a significant portion of the electorate (those without off street charging) realise that EVs are simply not going to be viable for them at such an early date. Manufacturers most likely realise this and will have contingency plans in place.Unreal said:
Fox- said:
romft123 said:
. Its been said over and over again. EV's arent for everyone......so everyone doesnt have to buy one.
This isn't true though, electric cars are not simply another choice, they are to be the only choice.Everyone will have to have one in the future if they buy new cars. It is already becoming more difficult to buy new petrol cars.
Next point - we want to reduce CO2. The majority of the population are behind taking concrete steps to avoid climate change when polled.
Next point - Electrification is the only realistic step once increasing ICE efficiency reaches diminishing returns (which it has)
Next point - therefore we should electrify the car market at the fastest pace possible bearing in mind - technical feasibility, cost and lastly customer preference.
We should bear in mind that historically customers have been driven towards more efficient power trains by a combination of dictated choice (eg CO2 based edicts at the market level) and by the customer benefit (Lower running cost - real e.g fuel or artifice e.g tax)
Nothing new here, once the EV market driven by adoption, legislation and technology has enough solutions at the right price point for the market this will become easy. The forecast for this point is 2030 through to 2035. Wealthier countries will be faster (see Norway) and that’s OK
Olivera said:
The 2035 UK ICE ban will get kicked into touch when a significant portion of the electorate (those without off street charging) realise that EVs are simply not going to be viable for them at such an early date. Manufacturers most likely realise this and will have contingency plans in place.
We'll see what happens, but that's pure wishful thinking in my opinion. We've got a decade to cater for the minority of new car buyers who would currently find the practicalities of not having an ICE car unacceptably inconvenient (that's not the same as the people who currently don't want or can't afford one). If that's insurmountable, we are pathetic.otolith said:
We'll see what happens, but that's pure wishful thinking in my opinion. We've got a decade to cater for the minority of new car buyers who would currently find the practicalities of not having an ICE car unacceptably inconvenient (that's not the same as the people who currently don't want or can't afford one). If that's insurmountable, we are pathetic.
There's absolutely no sign of any significant or widespread rollout of local charging provision that would help this demographic, especially at reasonable charging costs. It will eventually happen of course, but realistically it's going to take many decades, not one. Stating they are not new car buyers is also an irrelevance, if a 2035 ban does occur (it won't), then expect to see immediate inflationary pressures on existing ICE prices, like the Covid price boom but on steroids, as new car supply goes to zero. This is probably all irrelevant anyway, public backlash will equal a change of political course well ahead of time.DonkeyApple said:
Buying new is still a choice and I'm not sure it's remotely difficult to buy a petrol car new, one simply walks into a car shop, point at what you want and then bend over. 80% of new cars are still ICE.
Manufacturers have already started reducing the range of available petrol cars you can buy.Want a petrol Mercedes E Class? The UK market only gets the 2 litre now. The larger engine ones remain available elsewhere.
Perhaps you'd like a BMW 430i coupe? Not in the UK, removed from the range. Still available elsewhere though..
The 2035 ban is irrelevant as the zero emissions mandate will have made it difficult if not impossible to buy a petrol car long before that.
Edited by Fox- on Thursday 23 May 12:05
Fox- said:
DonkeyApple said:
Buying new is still a choice and I'm not sure it's remotely difficult to buy a petrol car new, one simply walks into a car shop, point at what you want and then bend over. 80% of new cars are still ICE.
Manufacturers have already started reducing the range of available petrol cars you can buy.Want a petrol Mercedes E Class? The UK market only gets the 2 litre now. The larger engine ones remain available elsewhere.
Perhaps you'd like a BMW 430i coupe? Not in the UK, removed from the range. Still available elsewhere though..
The 2035 ban is irrelevant as the zero emissions mandate will have made it difficult if not impossible to buy a petrol car long before that.
Edited by Fox- on Thursday 23 May 12:05
Labour seem unlikely to change the date and by 2029 it will be far too late to risk resulting manufacturers plans, if it isn’t too late already.
Fox- said:
DonkeyApple said:
Buying new is still a choice and I'm not sure it's remotely difficult to buy a petrol car new, one simply walks into a car shop, point at what you want and then bend over. 80% of new cars are still ICE.
Manufacturers have already started reducing the range of available petrol cars you can buy.Want a petrol Mercedes E Class? The UK market only gets the 2 litre now. The larger engine ones remain available elsewhere.
Perhaps you'd like a BMW 430i coupe? Not in the UK, removed from the range. Still available elsewhere though..
The 2035 ban is irrelevant as the zero emissions mandate will have made it difficult if not impossible to buy a petrol car long before that.
Edited by Fox- on Thursday 23 May 12:05
What you actually mean is something completely different which is that the more expensive and performance versions will steadily disappear in ICE format as that's generally the consumer end that is able to switch to EV today.
DonkeyApple said:
Unreal said:
That's the current plan but it has changed once already. Advocates and governments are trying to hold the line but plenty of time for more events and more changes. 2035 is a long way off and given current progress they'd just set themselves up to fail by bringing it forward. Far more important things to worry about such as China taking Taiwan, Vlad occupying Ukraine and Israel nuking Tehran.
We've left 2035 legally open so changes can be made if needed. The key is that you still want to keep those who can switch doing so as we head towards 2035 as their adoption will drive the creation of the infrastructure required for those to start switching in the 2040s, which the ZEV Mandate will probably do quite nicely. For folks who really wish to keep using ICE for the next 20-30 years then planning ahead is all that is required. People who can't think, can't work out a basic plan or who prefer to spend the next decade railing against the change will just be making their own problems.
I totally get the ambition and the strategy and in many ways that's the easy bit. At some point I need to see milestone targets being hit and I'm not seeing that yet. That means the targets just get harder and harder to achieve whilst advocates insist it will be all right on the night. It goes much wider than EV uptake of course.
I completely agree about using ICE in the next couple of decades. Not an issue for anyone over 40. I'm comfortably beyond that so entirely relaxed about the security of my choices.
Unreal said:
I think it's a racing certainty that changes will be needed. That's based on little more than life and professional experience of seeing how well transformational infrastructure is delivered in this country. It's therefore just as well changes are allowed for.
I totally get the ambition and the strategy and in many ways that's the easy bit. At some point I need to see milestone targets being hit and I'm not seeing that yet. That means the targets just get harder and harder to achieve whilst advocates insist it will be all right on the night. It goes much wider than EV uptake of course.
I completely agree about using ICE in the next couple of decades. Not an issue for anyone over 40. I'm comfortably beyond that so entirely relaxed about the security of my choices.
Yup but don't get your hopes up that if the poorest drivers in the U.K. must be allowed to still buy a new ICE after 2035 it will be a license for all of us to buy what we want. Instead, it'll be a licence granted via universal credit and limited to a narrow range of vehicles similar to the motability model. I totally get the ambition and the strategy and in many ways that's the easy bit. At some point I need to see milestone targets being hit and I'm not seeing that yet. That means the targets just get harder and harder to achieve whilst advocates insist it will be all right on the night. It goes much wider than EV uptake of course.
I completely agree about using ICE in the next couple of decades. Not an issue for anyone over 40. I'm comfortably beyond that so entirely relaxed about the security of my choices.
Any post 2035 new ICE will be closer to an Invacar than a Ferrari.
Unreal said:
I think it's a racing certainty that changes will be needed. That's based on little more than life and professional experience of seeing how well transformational infrastructure is delivered in this country. It's therefore just as well changes are allowed for.
We've been rolling out fibre broadband for 15+ years, yet full fibre to the home only has 66% coverage. Rolling out on-street and communal charging provision would seem a much bigger logistical and costly challenge, but it's going to be complete in 10?Unreal said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Unreal said:
Where I laugh and also react is when I hear EVs praised with terms like 'otherworldly' performance and claims that they keep pace with a car like my Yaris in its favoured environment
You’re just as bad. It’s a fking Yaris, not a Ferrari. It’s a bodykitted and breathed on version of what is sold to old people to go and pick up their pension in. “The car in front is a Toyota”. Yeah, only because it’s going so slow and all over the road being driven by an old biddy you can’t f
king overtake it. 
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