EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
What about Llandow? Not really a power circuit? Ben Collins got a John Cooper Works GP and a Megane RS Trophy R round there a fair bit quicker in the wet than Chris Harris did a GR Yaris. Different drivers and different days, of course, but surely if it's so extraordinarily capable in those conditions a front drive hatch shouldn't see which way it went?
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
I've owned about 1/2 doz caterhams over the years, all of which have been race cars. Some MX5 track cars. Several renaultsport clios, including a lightly track prepped 200. Couple of Elises.
And currently have a Model 3.
I would say that there's no way on earth a Model 3 is getting close to a Caterham on track. Ever. Unless you're talking about somewhere fast like Silverstone or Thruxton, and your Caterham only has 100bhp. Or the Caterham driver is lacking in talent/bravery.
Even something like a Clio 200 would show a Model 3 a clean pair of heels on most tracks.
Model 3 is a fairly capable road car, in the same way that a 440i coupe is a fairly capable road car. But it's no track weapon.
Yes it might be reasonably quick on a certain day, with certain (wet) weather, but it's no track car.
I could see a Model 3 keeping up with a fairly quickly driven GR Yaris on the road, maybe if neither were pushing too hard, but nothing more than that. Given a set of twisties my money would be on the Yaris (or anything else more focused) disappearing sharpish.
Capable cars, yes, but let's not kid ourselves.
I once overtook a 205 1.9 GTI in my 405 diesel and thought a) i was a driving god, b) my diesel taxi lookalike was actually a BTCC car. Neither was true. The 205 driver was probably chilling listening to classic FM. I suspect the same is happening here
And currently have a Model 3.
I would say that there's no way on earth a Model 3 is getting close to a Caterham on track. Ever. Unless you're talking about somewhere fast like Silverstone or Thruxton, and your Caterham only has 100bhp. Or the Caterham driver is lacking in talent/bravery.
Even something like a Clio 200 would show a Model 3 a clean pair of heels on most tracks.
Model 3 is a fairly capable road car, in the same way that a 440i coupe is a fairly capable road car. But it's no track weapon.
Yes it might be reasonably quick on a certain day, with certain (wet) weather, but it's no track car.
I could see a Model 3 keeping up with a fairly quickly driven GR Yaris on the road, maybe if neither were pushing too hard, but nothing more than that. Given a set of twisties my money would be on the Yaris (or anything else more focused) disappearing sharpish.
Capable cars, yes, but let's not kid ourselves.
I once overtook a 205 1.9 GTI in my 405 diesel and thought a) i was a driving god, b) my diesel taxi lookalike was actually a BTCC car. Neither was true. The 205 driver was probably chilling listening to classic FM. I suspect the same is happening here
Edited by LowTread on Monday 20th May 16:36
Unreal said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Talking of EV's, can anyone explain to me why it appears that half of the model 3s listed on eBay have been write offs in the past?
Have to say, if I was looking for a car and had somewhere to charge it a £20K non crashed Tesla Model 3 would be high on the list.
Deluded EV owners chasing Toyotas and Caterhams through bends and understeering off the road. Happens all the time. Give 'em five seconds 0-60 and they think they're driving a Red Bull. Have to say, if I was looking for a car and had somewhere to charge it a £20K non crashed Tesla Model 3 would be high on the list.
Anyway, back to the why so many written off, I suspect that is going back to the insurance companies being overly risk averse. Allegedly they're very "keen" to write off EV's with even a smidge of a *hint* of battery damage because there is no easy way to check and so the only option is to replace the battery at great cost. If that's the reason then they've probably not had the battery swapped. 99% of them are probably absolutely fine but _personally_ if I was in the market for a Model 3 I would be putting them into a far higher risk category, wouldn't risk it and would be looking for a non-write off.
[1] I wasn't trying to beat him, that's just how I always launch off the lights! Not my fault he was asleep and a bruised ego.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Talking of EV's, can anyone explain to me why it appears that half of the model 3s listed on eBay have been write offs in the past?
Have to say, if I was looking for a car and had somewhere to charge it a £20K non crashed Tesla Model 3 would be high on the list.
Because insurers have been writing off Tesla rather than wait for parts from Tesla, as the cost of courtesy cars has been horrific. Have to say, if I was looking for a car and had somewhere to charge it a £20K non crashed Tesla Model 3 would be high on the list.
A colleague had rear damage to a 2016 Tesla Model S. It took two attempts to repair, 8 weeks in a Taycan and another 6 weeks in a Polestar 2.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Talking of EV's, can anyone explain to me why it appears that half of the model 3s listed on eBay have been write offs in the past?
Have to say, if I was looking for a car and had somewhere to charge it a £20K non crashed Tesla Model 3 would be high on the list.
Because eBay is where you sell cars that have been written off. Of the roughly 1000 model 3s on autotrader, 18 have an insurance cat marker.Have to say, if I was looking for a car and had somewhere to charge it a £20K non crashed Tesla Model 3 would be high on the list.
otolith said:
What about Llandow? Not really a power circuit? Ben Collins got a John Cooper Works GP and a Megane RS Trophy R round there a fair bit quicker in the wet than Chris Harris did a GR Yaris. Different drivers and different days, of course, but surely if it's so extraordinarily capable in those conditions a front drive hatch shouldn't see which way it went?
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
2 things - 1) Ben Collins' fastest lap (|quoted above) was from a flying start, Chris Harris' a standing start. That counts for a quite a lot on a short lap! 2) Whilst Chris is a very good professional driver, Ben is probably quicker, given his history in motorsport.https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
Seems BEV van sales are struggling as well with the 10% zev mandate this year. Wait until it ramps up towards 2030.
"Hollick said that the situation presented a dilemma for fleets – whether to switch to manufacturers not insisting on order quotas, to not replace existing diesel vehicles and keep operating them for longer, or to buy quota electric vans and use them for occasional lighter duties or simply park them up."
https://fleetworld.co.uk/zev-order-quotas-creating...
"Hollick said that the situation presented a dilemma for fleets – whether to switch to manufacturers not insisting on order quotas, to not replace existing diesel vehicles and keep operating them for longer, or to buy quota electric vans and use them for occasional lighter duties or simply park them up."
https://fleetworld.co.uk/zev-order-quotas-creating...
greenarrow said:
otolith said:
What about Llandow? Not really a power circuit? Ben Collins got a John Cooper Works GP and a Megane RS Trophy R round there a fair bit quicker in the wet than Chris Harris did a GR Yaris. Different drivers and different days, of course, but surely if it's so extraordinarily capable in those conditions a front drive hatch shouldn't see which way it went?
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
2 things - 1) Ben Collins' fastest lap (|quoted above) was from a flying start, Chris Harris' a standing start. That counts for a quite a lot on a short lap! 2) Whilst Chris is a very good professional driver, Ben is probably quicker, given his history in motorsport.https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
The only thing we know as an absolute given is that the GR Yaris will be faster than a bike round the TT course.
greenarrow said:
otolith said:
What about Llandow? Not really a power circuit? Ben Collins got a John Cooper Works GP and a Megane RS Trophy R round there a fair bit quicker in the wet than Chris Harris did a GR Yaris. Different drivers and different days, of course, but surely if it's so extraordinarily capable in those conditions a front drive hatch shouldn't see which way it went?
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
2 things - 1) Ben Collins' fastest lap (|quoted above) was from a flying start, Chris Harris' a standing start. That counts for a quite a lot on a short lap! 2) Whilst Chris is a very good professional driver, Ben is probably quicker, given his history in motorsport.https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/llandow
https://youtu.be/fet5o_8B2rk?si=9NXG0F2LrknCBT-a&a...
Perhaps Collins is a lot faster than Harris (though Harris has also raced) but if the Yaris is as superior as claimed that's a big gap.
irc said:
Seems BEV van sales are struggling as well with the 10% zev mandate this year. Wait until it ramps up towards 2030.
"Hollick said that the situation presented a dilemma for fleets – whether to switch to manufacturers not insisting on order quotas, to not replace existing diesel vehicles and keep operating them for longer, or to buy quota electric vans and use them for occasional lighter duties or simply park them up."
https://fleetworld.co.uk/zev-order-quotas-creating...
'AFP chair Paul Hollick explained: “It’s quickly becoming a widespread practice that when a fleet wants to order a quantity of vans, manufacturers are asserting that a percentage is electric – often 10% to reflect the 2024 ZEV mandate.'"Hollick said that the situation presented a dilemma for fleets – whether to switch to manufacturers not insisting on order quotas, to not replace existing diesel vehicles and keep operating them for longer, or to buy quota electric vans and use them for occasional lighter duties or simply park them up."
https://fleetworld.co.uk/zev-order-quotas-creating...
They can 'assert' all they like but if they want to sell some vans then they may just have to stroke the customers' balls rather than try to bully them into buying what they don't want.
This is a scenario where s
t fleet buyers and shot vendors get found out. The good ones will be using ZEV to their advantage. For starters, get the deals done with the fleets who have a need to have a load of EV vans and that then gives you capacity to win the business of the smaller fleets who can't yet switch. Pushing a 10% agenda across a diverse spectrum of buyers is moronic and it's actually hard to believe that Paul Hollick isn't just making s
t up to create a drama and get his name in print to justify his job. It seems more plausible that fleet sales staff have just been given guidance to aim for a percentage on each deal, more if possible etc. otolith said:
(Or maybe the Yaris is the new 335D remapped or the new "have them in the twisties" king.)
In fairness when I come across them on track they are very fast. As in surprisingly fast even if you expect them to be very fast. The seem even faster than on paper, a potent combination of huge front grip on the way in and immense traction on the way out. You can't hear them though, they are so quiet even at full chat.
Driven plenty of quick cars on the road and can confirm that nothing I've ever experienced would cover real world ground quicker than the Model 3 Performance we had ack in 2019.
The levels of grip and traction combined with the immediacy of the drivetrain and ridiculous amounts of shove between 20-70mph made overtaking dawdlers, horse boxes and farm machinery on single carriageway roads both ridiculously safe and easy.
I never once took it out on a sunny Sunday morning just for the fun of driving it though, and still have a clean license.
The levels of grip and traction combined with the immediacy of the drivetrain and ridiculous amounts of shove between 20-70mph made overtaking dawdlers, horse boxes and farm machinery on single carriageway roads both ridiculously safe and easy.
I never once took it out on a sunny Sunday morning just for the fun of driving it though, and still have a clean license.
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