Is the Porsche 992 GT3 market going south?
Discussion
bencollins4 said:
I think the OP has no hope of a 911 as he’s always so bothered about the prices going down he will never take the plunge. Your life is passing you by and you still don’t have a 911.
Thank you for your concern. I will act when I believe the value proposition is correct for me, which isn't yet.The vast majority of newish car buyers don't care about the value proposition as much you do. Cars depreciate; expensive cars depreciate more than cheap cars. People know this and are willing to take the financial hit.
Anyone buying GT3s from dealers are taking a £10-20k hit on dealer margin as soon as they purchase. People buying £200k cars are OK with this!
Anyone buying GT3s from dealers are taking a £10-20k hit on dealer margin as soon as they purchase. People buying £200k cars are OK with this!
braddo said:
The vast majority of newish car buyers don't care about the value proposition as much you do. Cars depreciate; expensive cars depreciate more than cheap cars. People know this and are willing to take the financial hit.
Anyone buying GT3s from dealers are taking a £10-20k hit on dealer margin as soon as they purchase. People buying £200k cars are OK with this!
.....But the £200k buyers don't seem to be active. These cars are falling in value and are not selling, so they are obviously waiting until they can get them cheaper.Anyone buying GT3s from dealers are taking a £10-20k hit on dealer margin as soon as they purchase. People buying £200k cars are OK with this!
911hope said:
Following the asking prices for GT3s, as the market dynamic interests me.
Everyone knows that used cars sell for a big premium over new, as it is the only way to get one.
A month ago most <1yo car would be advertised at about £240k, by dealers. Now it is £220k...~8% drop in a month!
So it the market starting to slide, for even this solid performer?
Since September, things have shifted down, somewhat.Everyone knows that used cars sell for a big premium over new, as it is the only way to get one.
A month ago most <1yo car would be advertised at about £240k, by dealers. Now it is £220k...~8% drop in a month!
So it the market starting to slide, for even this solid performer?
You could now choose from 10 cars at less than £200K.
and another 10 at between £200K and £210K.
Tagteam said:
What price will you buy at ? You must have set yourself a floor ?
No intention of buying one, unless they became an obvious investment winner. Very unlikely that that would happen.My interest is just watching this bizarre market segment and trying to understand what drives people who would buy one of these used at a huge premium, just to not drive it much.
Buying new makes sense, so long as you sell immediately for a profit.
The next buyer doesn't have this profit...just risk and still can't drive it in case the price drops too far.
And what happens to the used buyers, once the market goes south... suddenly the desire to own weakens and their own valuation drops, so the wait and perhaps never bother.
Plenty on sale now have had more than one owner, so they must be selling at a loss. Say £25k for their 1k to 2k driving!
Prospective buyers would be keen not to make the same mistake and wait til the market bottoms out before buying.
911hope said:
Tagteam said:
What price will you buy at ? You must have set yourself a floor ?
No intention of buying one, unless they became an obvious investment winner. Very unlikely that that would happen.My interest is just watching this bizarre market segment and trying to understand what drives people who would buy one of these used at a huge premium, just to not drive it much.
Buying new makes sense, so long as you sell immediately for a profit.
The next buyer doesn't have this profit...just risk and still can't drive it in case the price drops too far.
And what happens to the used buyers, once the market goes south... suddenly the desire to own weakens and their own valuation drops, so the wait and perhaps never bother.
Plenty on sale now have had more than one owner, so they must be selling at a loss. Say £25k for their 1k to 2k driving!
Prospective buyers would be keen not to make the same mistake and wait til the market bottoms out before buying.
911hope said:
The downward shift continues.
There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
How does the price curve compare to the 991 GT3 price curve at the same time of its life cycle?There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
nickfrog said:
911hope said:
The downward shift continues.
There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
How does the price curve compare to the 991 GT3 price curve at the same time of its life cycle?There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
But the 992 cars on sale are pretty much less that 1 yo, with minimal miles.. speculation items..
911hope said:
The downward shift continues.
There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
For balance there is actually only one OPC 992 GT3 a few ks under £200k and that unsurprisingly is the poverty spec non CS comfort seated car with steel brakes not ceramics. There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
And there are only 2 other 992s at a few quid under £200k the remainder are all over £200k.
nickfrog said:
How does the price curve compare to the 991 GT3 price curve at the same time of its life cycle?
Interesting point Nick.Using prices for decent spec and average mileage OPC listed Clubsport cars with ceramics percentage wise the used 991.2 averaged c22% over basic list in June 2020 at around 2 years old. In June 2022 this percentage increased to c40% over basic list.
For the 992 assuming a used sale price of £215k for a similar car the percentage over basic list is c36%.
av185 said:
911hope said:
The downward shift continues.
There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
For balance there is actually only one OPC 992 GT3 a few ks under £200k and that unsurprisingly is the poverty spec non CS comfort seated car with steel brakes not ceramics. There are now good cars at less than £195k and loads under £200k.
About 20% lower than this time last year...
Getting close to the point where speculating on a new GT3 in no longer a "sure thing"
And there are only 2 other 992s at a few quid under £200k the remainder are all over £200k.
Just in case anyone interested in whole picture
On AT in ascending order, rounded up to nearest thousand.
195
195
197
198
200
200
200
200
200
203
205
205
205
205
206
207
210
210
210
215
220
220
220
220
224
229
230
270
911hope said:
.....But the £200k buyers don't seem to be active.
Don't forget it is reasonably common with these types of cars to not ever hit the market. Dealer takes 992 GT3 in PX or buys it and thinks oh John Smith popped in last week looking for one of these and the deal is done without the car ever being advertised. I know this was the case with somebody I know who had a 992 GT3 and got out of it at the back end of last year 123DWA said:
Don't forget it is reasonably common with these types of cars to not ever hit the market. Dealer takes 992 GT3 in PX or buys it and thinks oh John Smith popped in last week looking for one of these and the deal is done without the car ever being advertised. I know this was the case with somebody I know who had a 992 GT3 and got out of it at the back end of last year
I think you're right, there is a lot of stuff going on in the background that the casual observer can't see or comprehend from the outside.nickfrog said:
123DWA said:
Don't forget it is reasonably common with these types of cars to not ever hit the market. Dealer takes 992 GT3 in PX or buys it and thinks oh John Smith popped in last week looking for one of these and the deal is done without the car ever being advertised. I know this was the case with somebody I know who had a 992 GT3 and got out of it at the back end of last year
I think you're right, there is a lot of stuff going on in the background that the casual observer can't see or comprehend from the outside.Do you imagine the behind the scenes ones are going for more or less than the advertised ones?
If more then the buyers must be fools, if less then I think it could be possible. Good way of hiding the falling market!
911hope said:
Yet the vast majority of advertised cars just sit there for months, with the steadily reducing asking prices.
Do you imagine the behind the scenes ones are going for more or less than the advertised ones?
If more then the buyers must be fools, if less then I think it could be possible. Good way of hiding the falling market!
I just had a quick scan and none have been sitting for months (there is one at MotorHub which has been for sale since June but I think that one is self explanatory Do you imagine the behind the scenes ones are going for more or less than the advertised ones?
If more then the buyers must be fools, if less then I think it could be possible. Good way of hiding the falling market!
) there are 2 shark blue cars which have been for sale for 3 months but I know a lot of people have gone off that colour having seen how many Shark Blue cars are around. The other thing to consider is some of those cars may have deposits placed on them but the dealer wont remove the ad until the car is paid for and collected and with these type of cars and the people that buy them it could very easily be 4-6weeks from deposit to collection. So although a car may have been on AT for 2months It may have only been available to buy for 2-3 weeks. There's so many variables in this market that means you cant just judge things from what's on AutoTrader.
911hope said:
Yet the vast majority of advertised cars just sit there for months, with the steadily reducing asking prices.
Do you imagine the behind the scenes ones are going for more or less than the advertised ones?
If more then the buyers must be fools, if less then I think it could be possible. Good way of hiding the falling market!
Christ sake - just buy one ffs.Do you imagine the behind the scenes ones are going for more or less than the advertised ones?
If more then the buyers must be fools, if less then I think it could be possible. Good way of hiding the falling market!
You’re becoming a real bore constantly banging on about the price - at least give yourself something to do and drive one.
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