EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
The biggest issue for me with the 2035 cutoff date for sales of petrol cars is that it will inflate the price of desirable cars. I've got a modified Mustang and an M4 and I'd like to trade in the M4 for something even more interesting, preferably a 6spd petrol engine combo. I'm sure I'll have an EV for everyday use shortly as the price structures and value for money are finally making sense.
I don't understand the antagonism between what are 2 completely different forms of road transport, each with a completely different use case for me.
I don't understand the antagonism between what are 2 completely different forms of road transport, each with a completely different use case for me.
BlackTank said:
The biggest issue for me with the 2035 cutoff date for sales of petrol cars is that it will inflate the price of desirable cars. I've got a modified Mustang and an M4 and I'd like to trade in the M4 for something even more interesting, preferably a 6spd petrol engine combo. I'm sure I'll have an EV for everyday use shortly as the price structures and value for money are finally making sense.
I don't understand the antagonism between what are 2 completely different forms of road transport, each with a completely different use case for me.
The antagonism is rooted in an unwillingness to accept that they are completely different forms of transport. One has to be better than the other - therefore competition and antagonism. I know that they are not literally completely different and so do you, but we both know what we mean.I don't understand the antagonism between what are 2 completely different forms of road transport, each with a completely different use case for me.
The reason I rarely get involved in discussions about EVs is that they don't interest me in the slightest. I wouldn't care if they were faster and more economical than every fossil car ever made. They are as interesting to me as horse drawn carriages or mopeds. My position is that I respect your choice, please respect mine. Unfortunately we increasingly live in a binary world - EVs good, ICE bad.
Edited by Unreal on Wednesday 27th March 08:22
Unreal said:
Unfortunately we increasingly live in a binary world - EVs good, ICE bad.
Not really.It's more a case of petrol ICEs outnumbering EVs 20 to 1 at the moment, so an accelerated plan to restrict new ICE sales is required to even the balance.
To make it less binary in favour of ICE...
GT9 said:
Unreal said:
Unfortunately we increasingly live in a binary world - EVs good, ICE bad.
Not really.It's more a case of petrol ICEs outnumbering EVs 20 to 1 at the moment, so an accelerated plan to restrict new ICE sales is required to even the balance.
To make it less binary in favour of ICE...
Unreal said:
GT9 said:
Unreal said:
Unfortunately we increasingly live in a binary world - EVs good, ICE bad.
Not really.It's more a case of petrol ICEs outnumbering EVs 20 to 1 at the moment, so an accelerated plan to restrict new ICE sales is required to even the balance.
To make it less binary in favour of ICE...
The point you've made about choice is relevant.
What makes no sense though is that a reducing preference for ICE is not matched by a reducing number of ICE cars on the road.
A person choosing a single car at a single price point does not need 30 million cars to choose from.
It's highly probable that EV preference will increase with time simply because the cost of energy is never going to get cheaper, especially fossil-fuelled energy.
As EV numbers increase and the charging infrastructure expands, people who care zero about what's under the bonnet will increasingly choose EV to reduce their cost of travel, this is almost certain.
And it's primarily driven by energy efficiency, for which there is no pathway that gets anywhere near close to direct electrification, and never will...
Unless car manufacturers invent a way of making second hand EVs at the factory, the only way we increase numbers on the road is to influence new car production numbers.
For those who feel this is putting their noses out of joint, maybe ask yourself why you need to be able to choose a car at a price point that you will never buy, either new or second-hand.
And in response to the inevitable comments about lack of range...
Charging speeds have come along way and still have a long way to go.
Within 10 years I think we will see 1500 mph public charging more commonly available, or 150 miles in 6 minutes.
UK annual average mileages are dropping, as are daily journey lengths.
Right now, only 1% of journeys on any given day are over 200 miles and only 5% are over 100 miles.
What I don't know is whether it's more the case that the same people are doing 200 miles every day or everybody is doing 200 miles on the very odd occasion, say every three months.
Obviously it's somewhere between those two extremes.
If any particular individual's need for 2000 mph public charging is only every 3 months, the cost should not be in issue.
If any particular individual's need for 2000 mph public charging is every day, then I'm going to suggest they are doing something quite unique and should stick with ICE for now.
God forbid how much their fuel bill will be though...
Charging speeds have come along way and still have a long way to go.
Within 10 years I think we will see 1500 mph public charging more commonly available, or 150 miles in 6 minutes.
UK annual average mileages are dropping, as are daily journey lengths.
Right now, only 1% of journeys on any given day are over 200 miles and only 5% are over 100 miles.
What I don't know is whether it's more the case that the same people are doing 200 miles every day or everybody is doing 200 miles on the very odd occasion, say every three months.
Obviously it's somewhere between those two extremes.
If any particular individual's need for 2000 mph public charging is only every 3 months, the cost should not be in issue.
If any particular individual's need for 2000 mph public charging is every day, then I'm going to suggest they are doing something quite unique and should stick with ICE for now.
God forbid how much their fuel bill will be though...
Unreal said:
As I said, the reason I rarely get involved in discussions about EVs is that they don't interest me in the slightest. What will be, will be. The sort of ICE cars I like will be around long after I'm dead so as long as I keep out of these threads and avoid Electric Avenue at Goodwood I'll be fine. I'm out. Don't really know why I came in apart from bored waiting for a Zoom meeting to start.
I hate Zoom meetings, they lack engagement and are completely lacking in character compared to good old fashioned in person meetings.stanlow45 said:
BBYeah said:
Some would say moron catering to morons.
The only morons here are those telling us (repeatedly, but you'd have to be a lobotomised hedgehog to believe their nonsense) that range is not a huge disadvantage vs ICE.stanlow45 said:
morons...
I promise I've never touched your sister or whatever it is that has driven you to be so vitriolic.Not a single response from you has ever tried to address the point of discussion, it's always about the insults.
This is exactly the behaviour that got you banned originally, it's inevitably going to happen again.
Dave200 said:
What about people like me who've had a EV for a couple of years that can do a real 300+ miles in cold weather? I've had absolutely no issues with range at all. In fact I've been closer to running out of petrol in my other car than I have been to running out of EV juice. Does my experience count?
No - it counts for nothing when compared to someone who has never run an EV.TheRainMaker said:
You have had an EV for a couple of years which will do 300+ in cold weather?
Which one is that?, there are not many new ones that can do that.
300 motorway miles is more than 4 hours of driving in the real world. Almost everyone needs a stop after that kind of time. I know the dieselvangelists insist they never ever stop, but all those busy motorway services and roadside fast food joints demonstrates this is BS.Which one is that?, there are not many new ones that can do that.
So when you need to stop for a wee. Or cos you are stiff / bored / tired, you charge the car.
An example. I did Liverpool centre to Edinburgh supercharger. In winter with snow coming down. "only" 220 miles but more than 4 hours. No way am I driving further than that without a stop whatever the fuel source is. So why would I need "300+ in cold weather?
JustGetATesla said:
TheRainMaker said:
You have had an EV for a couple of years which will do 300+ in cold weather?
Which one is that?, there are not many new ones that can do that.
300 motorway miles is more than 4 hours of driving in the real world. Almost everyone needs a stop after that kind of time. I know the dieselvangelists insist they never ever stop, but all those busy motorway services and roadside fast food joints demonstrates this is BS.Which one is that?, there are not many new ones that can do that.
So when you need to stop for a wee. Or cos you are stiff / bored / tired, you charge the car.
An example. I did Liverpool centre to Edinburgh supercharger. In winter with snow coming down. "only" 220 miles but more than 4 hours. No way am I driving further than that without a stop whatever the fuel source is. So why would I need "300+ in cold weather?
Group A: the people for whom the range of current EV's is a massive disadvantage and therefore don't buy EV's. In theory should be happy but seem to whine a lot about EV's ruining their lives. Also include people who can't afford a new car, always buy used and yet complain about the price of new cars, specifically blaming EV's for this issue.
Group B: the people for whom EV's are perfectly fine, bought an EV and are very happy with all the other improvements they bring
Group C: the people for whom EV's currently don't work, but who bought one anyway. one question, why?
Group D: the people who believe all the BS spouted here and elsewhere and who really could be in Group B, but who are labouring on with their petrol or diesel cars
Which are you?
Group B: the people for whom EV's are perfectly fine, bought an EV and are very happy with all the other improvements they bring
Group C: the people for whom EV's currently don't work, but who bought one anyway. one question, why?
Group D: the people who believe all the BS spouted here and elsewhere and who really could be in Group B, but who are labouring on with their petrol or diesel cars
Which are you?
740EVTORQUES said:
Group A: the people for whom the range of current EV's is a massive disadvantage and therefore don't buy EV's. In theory should be happy but seem to whine a lot about EV's ruining their lives. Also include people who can't afford a new car, always buy used and yet complain about the price of new cars, specifically blaming EV's for this issue.
Group B: the people for whom EV's are perfectly fine, bought an EV and are very happy with all the other improvements they bring
Group C: the people for whom EV's currently don't work, but who bought one anyway. one question, why?
Group D: the people who believe all the BS spouted here and elsewhere and who really could be in Group B, but who are labouring on with their petrol or diesel cars
Which are you?
Group E: the people who just want to enjoy their petrol cars without listening to others banging on about EV's.Group B: the people for whom EV's are perfectly fine, bought an EV and are very happy with all the other improvements they bring
Group C: the people for whom EV's currently don't work, but who bought one anyway. one question, why?
Group D: the people who believe all the BS spouted here and elsewhere and who really could be in Group B, but who are labouring on with their petrol or diesel cars
Which are you?
Seasonal Hero said:
Dave200 said:
What about people like me who've had a EV for a couple of years that can do a real 300+ miles in cold weather? I've had absolutely no issues with range at all. In fact I've been closer to running out of petrol in my other car than I have been to running out of EV juice. Does my experience count?
No - it counts for nothing when compared to someone who has never run an EV.Ask somebody travelling across a large continent like Australia or America if 300 miles is adequate. Besides, there’s a difference between stopping for a wee or to stretch your legs vs being forced to refuel. Google tells me time taken to recharge a Tesla with a supercharger is one hour, which is about 45 minutes longer than I want to spend in any services. That assumes you can find a free charger of course. Biggest problem I have with most EVs is the styling, it’s like they’ve been designed with dullness in mind. Model X looks like a Moomin, especially in white.
wormus said:
And a sample of one is significant because?….
Ask somebody travelling across a large continent like Australia or America if 300 miles is adequate. Besides, there’s a difference between stopping for a wee or to stretch your legs vs being forced to refuel. Google tells me time taken to recharge a Tesla with a supercharger is one hour, which is about 45 minutes longer than I want to spend in any services. That assumes you can find a free charger of course. Biggest problem I have with most EVs is the styling, it’s like they’ve been designed with dullness in mind. Model X looks like a Moomin, especially in white.
If the biggest problem you have with EV's is the styling, then I would humbly suggest that the game is over...Ask somebody travelling across a large continent like Australia or America if 300 miles is adequate. Besides, there’s a difference between stopping for a wee or to stretch your legs vs being forced to refuel. Google tells me time taken to recharge a Tesla with a supercharger is one hour, which is about 45 minutes longer than I want to spend in any services. That assumes you can find a free charger of course. Biggest problem I have with most EVs is the styling, it’s like they’ve been designed with dullness in mind. Model X looks like a Moomin, especially in white.
(what does US or Aussie geography have to do with us by the way?) The UK is much smaller. I used to have to stop to refuel twice a week, a real PITA, now I do it at home overnight.
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