Unusual Cat N situation

[Warwick Driver 2]

Hi all.

First, I don't really want a discussion on the merits - or not - of buying Cat N or S car, as I think I'm aware of the potential pitfalls. I have bought a Cat N (actually, it was then a 'D') in the past, and it served me very well for 5 years, before I sold it on for half the 'expected' price to an informed buyer who still has it happily running 4 years later.

This is about a current Cat N car which I am considering.

I, as always, carried out a 'TotalCarCheck' Gold HPI check on it, and this confirmed it was Cat N, gave the date of this 'incident' (late last year), but - unusually - no further useful info - no links to the salvage details, no 'stolen', no 'financial', nothing. In other words, I have no idea WHY it's a Cat N.

I have asked the seller, and he reports that they are as confused as me (which I doubt), but that they received it with only a light scratch across a wing, that they managed to polish out with no paint required. This is a 2020 vehicle, expected to retail around £11k+, and potentially buyable for <£9k.

With HPI checks not able to provide any useful info, and with me pressing for info, the seller finally sent me pics from the HKR.co.uk site they bought it from, and this shows an equally tidy vehicle, with zero physical damage other than this 'scratch' they mentioned, and a bit of litter in the footwells! I have asked about flood damage, but they are certain this ain't the case.

So what the hell is going on?!

Qs - what else could possibly make a 2020 car 'Cat N'?! Where can I get a 'better' HPI check than 'Total' that might actually indicate the cause? (I'm disappointed by my 'Gold' TCC in this instance, as photos DO clearly exist, but they did not link to it - I had to get these from the seller.)

Cheers.

[Andy665]

Something very minor like a scratch or dent can indeed see a car being given a Cat N - it's a ridiculous situation.

Think the general rule of thumb is that Cat N is superficial / cosmetic damage

[MattsCar]

It could be caused by the most minor of things if the part is not available or there is a large delay on parts (which happened during covid).

[Megaflow]

There is some very weird stuff going on in the insurance industry with cars being written off.

I saw a video the other week, a brand new 73 plate Golf R estate, a £45k car before options, and I think this one had a few and was something like £49k. It was so new, it was still in transportation mode and had done 10 miles. Cat N write off. Why? The dealer ship it was in caught fire and the car had a very slight smoke smell to it!

The bloke bought it, put an ozone machine in it for a couple of hours. problem solved!

I can absolutely believe a car being written off for a slight scratch.

[ACCYSTAN]

I have purchased cat N or old cat D with no more than external dent vandalism, one with lots of scratches over multiple panels and in one case a Seat with interior vandalism (had its window smashed and paint poured over the seats).

I happily buy cat N but never buy cat S

[Warwick Driver 2]

Thanks all.

These were my thoughts too, but I cannot figure out why the Gold TCC HPI check doesn't say any more, or in this case even link to the 'salvage' photos that I now know exist because I tracked them down. I have looked at a few Cat cars recently, carried out the usual checks on them, and could see very clearly what the damage was. But this fellow, now't - apart from that wee scratch!

I have asked the seller about potential flood damage, and he assures me there's none. What else could there be? I guess I'm concerned about mechanical issues, I dunno - perhaps running over something that ripped the sump off! Would/could that lead to an insurance right-off - I guess it could?

Is there any other way to track down what happened? Is it possible to contact the last owner (they must know!) if given the VIN number, for example?

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Any dealers on here who might have a better insight, or ways of finding out? :-)

[georgeyboy12345]

Would an alternative like VCheck throw up salvage pics?

[OutInTheShed]

Warwick Driver 2 said:

Hi all.
...
This is about a current Cat N car which I am considering.
....

I have asked the seller, and he reports that they are as confused as me (which I doubt), but that they received it with only a light scratch across a wing, that they managed to polish out with no paint required. This is a 2020 vehicle, expected to retail around £11k+, and potentially buyable for <£9k.
....

A car that retails at £11k, discounted to £9k is maybe above its trade price and close to what the insurers have paid out?
The insurers might take a small loss on the car in preference to putting many man-hours into arguing about it.
Maybe the owner was a fleet operator whose time is also money?
Maybe the insurer was on the hook for time the car was unavailable?

Or maybe there is something hidden.


Personally, £2k is not a big discount for the taint of a cat c ar should you ever want to sell or claim for damage.
I can't plan far enough ahead to say I'll never care about resale value, YMMV.

[KTMsm]

It won't just be the scratch it will either have been damage underneath or flood

I'm a Trader and a fellow Trader offered me a car he'd bought as CatN and drove over to me

He'd been told it was just the front wing which you could see had been painted but I looked underneath and the diff carrier was broken and the half shaft was the only thing holding it on !

If in doubt - particularly of a recently damaged car - walk away

[Tiglon]

£2k off £11k wouldn't be enough for me to take the risk on a cat car where I am not 99% sure what the damage was.

It's a risk. Can you afford the risk if it goes wrong? Do you need to take the risk?

[Belle427]

As suggested if there are doubts walk away, its not worth the hassle.
There does seem to be loads of cat cars around these days though for decent money but i could not personally take the risk unless i was sure of the damage.

[ACCYSTAN]

Cat N should be at least 25% lower than a none recorded car, a cat S should be 40% cheaper but they rarely are.

[TimmyMallett]

Megaflow said:

There is some very weird stuff going on in the insurance industry with cars being written off.

I saw a video the other week, a brand new 73 plate Golf R estate, a £45k car before options, and I think this one had a few and was something like £49k. It was so new, it was still in transportation mode and had done 10 miles. Cat N write off. Why? The dealer ship it was in caught fire and the car had a very slight smoke smell to it!

The bloke bought it, put an ozone machine in it for a couple of hours. problem solved!

I can absolutely believe a car being written off for a slight scratch.

Saving Salvage? I saw that.

[Terminator X]

Light scratch, isn't that what wrote off every car in history much to the owners bemusement

TX.

[Warwick Driver 2]

Thanks again.

HonestJohn valuation says 'most at £12.6 to £14k, and private purchase £11.5k'. Speaking to the seller, I can get it for £8.5k. I have no issues going for a repaired Cat N, provided I know what the damage was, and how it was repaired.

Q - if you are a car dealer, and signed up to HKR.co.uk (the salvage handler), would you be able to obtain from them the 'cause'? Is that info you'd expect them to have, as presumably provided by the insurance co?

I don't suppose there's a dealer reading this who does have access, and could check for me?! :-)

[blue_haddock]

Motorcheck will show details of its history including any pictures from salvage auctions etc.

definitely worth checking.

[A500leroy]

Go and stand in front of it.

[Warwick Driver 2]

blue_haddock said:

Motorcheck will show details of its history including any pictures from salvage auctions etc.

definitely worth checking.

Thanks, but I do, have the photos from the salvage company, HKR, but they don't help! They show the car just as the seller described - it only has one light surface scratch across one wing, and some litter - cans, wrappings - in the footwell. That's it.

Would 'Motorcheck' tell me WHY it was Cat N'd? Is Motorcheck better than TotalCarCheck, one of the market leaders?

Two other bits of info that I also know - the seller says the car was owned by Enterprise Car Rental for most of its life*, and it was given a personal plate by its first owner, one month after purchase in 2020, only reverting to its original number when sold at the start of last year, nine months before the Cat N.

• This is supported by the TotalCarCheck I had carried out, which has the mileage confirmed using its first MOT, and RMI and BVRLA, the latter being the UK trade body for companies engaged in vehicle rental, leasing and fleet management.

Edited by Warwick Driver 2 on Monday 26th February 17:19

Edited by Warwick Driver 2 on Monday 26th February 17:42

[Megaflow]

TimmyMallett said:

Megaflow said:

There is some very weird stuff going on in the insurance industry with cars being written off.

I saw a video the other week, a brand new 73 plate Golf R estate, a £45k car before options, and I think this one had a few and was something like £49k. It was so new, it was still in transportation mode and had done 10 miles. Cat N write off. Why? The dealer ship it was in caught fire and the car had a very slight smoke smell to it!

The bloke bought it, put an ozone machine in it for a couple of hours. problem solved!

I can absolutely believe a car being written off for a slight scratch.

Saving Salvage? I saw that.

That’s the one. Very strange.

[jdoubleu]

Is there any way to tell if the engine has been replaced? Could be one of those idiots you see on YouTube driving through a flooded ford and hydrolocking the engine?

Just to add a question which I don't think has been asked... How long has the previous owner had it for? If they've been in it for a couple of years that might be a better sign than if they've had it a couple of months.

Edited by jdoubleu on Tuesday 27th February 07:35