Is the Porsche 992 GT3 market going south?
Discussion
Following the asking prices for GT3s, as the market dynamic interests me.
Everyone knows that used cars sell for a big premium over new, as it is the only way to get one.
A month ago most <1yo car would be advertised at about £240k, by dealers. Now it is £220k...~8% drop in a month!
So it the market starting to slide, for even this solid performer?
Everyone knows that used cars sell for a big premium over new, as it is the only way to get one.
A month ago most <1yo car would be advertised at about £240k, by dealers. Now it is £220k...~8% drop in a month!
So it the market starting to slide, for even this solid performer?
BorkBorkBork said:
The prices were always going to soften after the initial hype. Porsche has moved on, the GT4 RS is here and it’s big brother is on its way. Some GT3’s are probably being chopped in because the OPC’s demand their chosen clients do that before they can get an RS, so supply is going up.
The economy will play its part too, interest rates are higher and will go higher still, so the vast majority of cars sold for overs will be more expensive to own. And anyone paying overs at the moment is probably going to see depreciation that GT3’s haven’t seen in a long time.
I think the days of cheap motoring in cars which actually aren’t that rare (supply isn’t really an issue, the 992 GT3 will have larger production numbers than any previous generation.) are probably over.
So buying a new one offers a profit opportunity.The economy will play its part too, interest rates are higher and will go higher still, so the vast majority of cars sold for overs will be more expensive to own. And anyone paying overs at the moment is probably going to see depreciation that GT3’s haven’t seen in a long time.
I think the days of cheap motoring in cars which actually aren’t that rare (supply isn’t really an issue, the 992 GT3 will have larger production numbers than any previous generation.) are probably over.
Buying a used one will cost about £20K/year in depreciation.....
Probably about £10/mile in typical use.
911hope said:
Following the asking prices for GT3s, as the market dynamic interests me.
Everyone knows that used cars sell for a big premium over new, as it is the only way to get one.
A month ago most <1yo car would be advertised at about £240k, by dealers. Now it is £220k...~8% drop in a month!
So it the market starting to slide, for even this solid performer?
A few now priced down at £220k or less now!Everyone knows that used cars sell for a big premium over new, as it is the only way to get one.
A month ago most <1yo car would be advertised at about £240k, by dealers. Now it is £220k...~8% drop in a month!
So it the market starting to slide, for even this solid performer?
av185 said:
Folks always quote the cheapest worst spec cars as representative of the market overall.
As ever the best spec cars sell at the best prices.
Slight easing of prices is expected as usual approaching winter. No big deal it happens every year with GT Porsches.
Cheapest is at £211k, with 5k miles. Ceramics, carbon roof, Bose, lift, buckets, and various other bits. What's wrong with that spec?As ever the best spec cars sell at the best prices.
Slight easing of prices is expected as usual approaching winter. No big deal it happens every year with GT Porsches.
The most expensive is £260k, which is a year and 3k miles newer and has added scaffolding in the cabin.
There are lots with similar spec at 220k to 230k, so the highest priced one probably won't sell at that price.
911hope said:
av185 said:
Unsurprisingly the cheapest car at £211k is non CS.
They are several available with CS for about £220k and for £215k.Out of interest how much do you believe Clubsport package should add to the value of a used 992 RS3?
Non CS outnumber the CS cars by about 10%
Non CS asking prices range from £210K to £230K (mean £220k)
CS cars asking prices range from £215 to £240 (mean £228k)
nickfrog said:
911hope said:
Following the asking prices for GT3s, as the market dynamic interests me.
More interestingly, when are you hoping to buy one?If I could buy a new one, I would flip it the next week.
Just like the majority of owners do.
Edible Roadkill said:
I think it’s safe to say going forward they’ll be less people queuing up to spend £100k over list on a used car.
I’ve noticed the decline on a specialist car I own. There’s still a few buyers but the volume of sellers has increased massively, some prepared to ask 2019 money.
Some degree of profit taking, while it is there.I’ve noticed the decline on a specialist car I own. There’s still a few buyers but the volume of sellers has increased massively, some prepared to ask 2019 money.
911hope said:
There seem to be about 1 or 2 sales per week now and always below £210K and from a Porsche main dealer.
Cheapest one is at £200k this week, from a Porsche main dealer.New price with options is about £160K.
Dealer must have bought it in at a maximum of £180k to give some margin, so it seems like the profit motive for buying these new may be less compelling.
av185 said:
Cheapest OPC car is actually £208500. £60k over list price new.
Reason?
Ubiquitous Shark blue and non CS.
A couple of other cars around £210k having high relative miles or comfort spec.
Most proper spec and mileage cars still £235k+ and selling.
Not true....Reason?
Ubiquitous Shark blue and non CS.
A couple of other cars around £210k having high relative miles or comfort spec.
Most proper spec and mileage cars still £235k+ and selling.
Have a look at the one in Leeds at £199,990, with CS and anything else you could want. 2022 car.
This one will sell. All the high price cars just sit unsold.
Nothing above £210k has sold for weeks.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210190...
BTW, by ubiquitous, do you mean popular?
Edited by 911hope on Friday 21st October 15:20
Edited by 911hope on Friday 21st October 15:35
av185 said:
High relative mileage. In fact 3000 miles over average. For a 2022 GT3.
And 2 owners.
Not bad value at £200k though.
Ubiquitous is 'common' in the 'everywhere' sense.. Which Shark blue is on a 992 GT3. Check out the number of Shark blue cars in the OPC network.
Yes looking at the OPC network, shark blue seems to be quite popular in GT3s. I guess if someone wants a bright one this one of the less shout colours.And 2 owners.
Not bad value at £200k though.
Ubiquitous is 'common' in the 'everywhere' sense.. Which Shark blue is on a 992 GT3. Check out the number of Shark blue cars in the OPC network.
Regarding the 200k car ......
So it has a mileage of 4100 miles. Hardly an issue.
This price level is what is necessary to sell at the moment.
The pricing of this model is slowly dropping, the ones at 210k to 215k are not selling, so they will drift down as well.
nickfrog said:
Are you in the market for a GT3 now? I thought you had downgraded your aspirations to a 718?
I suspect the end of the track day season (for the very few who use the car as intended) but more importantly the winter effect are the salient factors in this particular market.
What would be relevant is to compare the evolution of the 991 GT3 premiums at the time over the same period.
No interest in owning one..just interested in the market dynamics of such a car. The original owner's benefit is clear, as he/she can flip it for a big profit after a few months.I suspect the end of the track day season (for the very few who use the car as intended) but more importantly the winter effect are the salient factors in this particular market.
What would be relevant is to compare the evolution of the 991 GT3 premiums at the time over the same period.
The second owner has to pay a huge premium to own one. Their proposition would seem to be a very expensive one, as they will make a loss when they sell probably. As you say, they probably won't go on a track, so a few miles being shaken to bits on UK roads and the pleasure of owning it. Look, polish and show to friends.
Now the market is going down, any second hand buyer must know that the likely loss is higher so the price must be very keen or they will stay away or wait.
Now that prices have slumped, it may become less guaranteed that a new purchase will actually yield a big profit. Most of the cars have about 20k of options on them, so real new price is £160k. A Porsche dealer will need to buy it back for £180k, to sell on at £200k. So only 20k profit for the first owner. If market falls much more it becomes zero profit.
Regarding 991 GT3, you are right it could be instructive to observe that market, along with a few other models. I will have a look at doing that.
Edited by 911hope on Sunday 23 October 14:13
nickfrog said:
911hope said:
Regarding 991 GT3, you are right it could be instructive to observe that market, along with a few other models. I will have a look at doing that.
Probably a bit late now. 
- and besides, you're busy enough combing through prices as it is.I meant to say that the only relevance of the current 992 GT3 market would be to compare it to the 991 GT3 market at the time to see if the premium fell at the same rate. That would isolate the current economic situation from the natural premium erosion of those very niche cars and perhaps avoid any hasty extrapolations to the rest of the used car market...
Where there would be a difference is recent from-new owners rushing to take their profit can only be a phenomenon for the 992 series.
So the 991 GT3 and used 992 GT3 purchasers must have the same motive of "wanting the car" and being prepared to pay the depreciation etc.
If there is a seasonal variation in pricing, I would be interested to understand the nature, For example is it the case that the cars suffer their depreciation over the winter and remain flat in the summer, or is there some recovery in price in the spring.
If the prices do indeed undulate substantially with the seasons, Then there is a contrarian investment rationale.
Such a judgement would need to overlay any seasonal undulations onto the general price decay, to estimate the profit reselling in the spring.
All car enthusiasm should be excluded from such a judgement.
Another priced at less than £200K.
This dealer obviously wants to make a sale. Someone will make a reasonable offer and it will go.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211101...
Lots of others under £210K now.
Many OPCs seem to have a few GT3s sitting around.
This dealer obviously wants to make a sale. Someone will make a reasonable offer and it will go.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211101...
Lots of others under £210K now.
Many OPCs seem to have a few GT3s sitting around.
Earthdweller said:
I suppose now that interest rates are rising you could put 200k in a high st bank and get £10k interest a year on it
Safer than a car, so I suppose those buying as investments might be tempted to look elsewhere
A used exotic at a premium over list is a crazy investment. GT3 prices have declined by about £30k in the last 4 months alone and they are not selling.Safer than a car, so I suppose those buying as investments might be tempted to look elsewhere
If you were to consider such an investment, you would want the market to bottom out first.
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