Are plug-in hybrids worth considering?
Discussion
Currently run 2 cars, around 8k miles a year between them. Thinking about swapping for one "do everything" car.
I have looked at fully-electric cars, but really can't see anything in budget (£30k) new or secondhand, that appeals. Either the winter range is a bit iffy, the car is too big, the tech is flaky and/or just plain dangerous, or the price is just too high compared to the ICE equivalent. Only found 3 potential candidates - Cupra Born, Kia Niro and MG4. Negatives to all of them.
There seems to be more choice if I look at plug-in Hybrids, but is the extra weight and cost worth it?
Looking for a small SUV type car, fast enough for rapid and safe overtakes, that's comfy and at least as well-equipped as my Picanto GT-S and C3 Aircross Shine Plus.
Semi-rural driving, mostly short trips to visit customers or the local towns. Most days it would be 40 miles maximum, but a couple of times a month I need 120 miles. Presumably a decent hybrid would cope with electric only for 30 miles on A and B roads at 50/60mph, as long as I remembered to plug it in?
Would I save enough to make it worth the hassle?
One reason for looking at plug-in hybrids over pure ICE versions is they tend to be a fair bit faster when the need arises, adding the electric motor to the normal petrol engine. Versions that only have 120 to 150bhp in ICE format often have 220+bhp hybrid equivalents. One version of the 3008 has 300bhp from 2 electric motors and the 1.6 petrol engine.
Or do I just go for something from VW, with the 300bhp 2 litre petrol, like a T Roc?
I have looked at fully-electric cars, but really can't see anything in budget (£30k) new or secondhand, that appeals. Either the winter range is a bit iffy, the car is too big, the tech is flaky and/or just plain dangerous, or the price is just too high compared to the ICE equivalent. Only found 3 potential candidates - Cupra Born, Kia Niro and MG4. Negatives to all of them.
There seems to be more choice if I look at plug-in Hybrids, but is the extra weight and cost worth it?
Looking for a small SUV type car, fast enough for rapid and safe overtakes, that's comfy and at least as well-equipped as my Picanto GT-S and C3 Aircross Shine Plus.
Semi-rural driving, mostly short trips to visit customers or the local towns. Most days it would be 40 miles maximum, but a couple of times a month I need 120 miles. Presumably a decent hybrid would cope with electric only for 30 miles on A and B roads at 50/60mph, as long as I remembered to plug it in?
Would I save enough to make it worth the hassle?
One reason for looking at plug-in hybrids over pure ICE versions is they tend to be a fair bit faster when the need arises, adding the electric motor to the normal petrol engine. Versions that only have 120 to 150bhp in ICE format often have 220+bhp hybrid equivalents. One version of the 3008 has 300bhp from 2 electric motors and the 1.6 petrol engine.
Or do I just go for something from VW, with the 300bhp 2 litre petrol, like a T Roc?
An electric Niro would be fine, but it would have to be the current model, which is over budget. The earlier model, I just don't like the way it looks.
I was looking at the specs of the Sportage PHEV, and noticed that the top trim levels are subject to the over £40k road tax, which would wipe out any likely fuel savings. Not a problem with BEVs, no "luxury" car tax.
The Stellantis 300bhp hybrid platform looks like a decent option, I'll have to see which ones came in at under £40k list
I was looking at the specs of the Sportage PHEV, and noticed that the top trim levels are subject to the over £40k road tax, which would wipe out any likely fuel savings. Not a problem with BEVs, no "luxury" car tax.
The Stellantis 300bhp hybrid platform looks like a decent option, I'll have to see which ones came in at under £40k list
Marc p said:
Are you looking for a new car? Reason I ask is that for £30k you could get some great cars that produce a lot more power than the figures quoted.
You don’t do much mileage between the two cars so MPG isn’t a huge factor, so you could have something like this with a spare 3k+ to put in the bank for running costs. Certainly far faster and more enjoyable to drive than your aforementioned hybrids.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266272227608?mkcid=16&a...
I'm looking for something relatively compact, as a lot of my journeys are visiting customers down narrow lanes and with no parking. You don’t do much mileage between the two cars so MPG isn’t a huge factor, so you could have something like this with a spare 3k+ to put in the bank for running costs. Certainly far faster and more enjoyable to drive than your aforementioned hybrids.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266272227608?mkcid=16&a...
I had a Superb 280 estate. Fast, but a bit too big at times. Put me right off running anything from VAG when the turbo failed just outside warranty with less than 30k on the clock.
A decent warranty is a must, one reason why I've owned a few Kias, or it needs to be a cheap "throwaway" car.
Good to know that hybrids can work out. My worry is that I'd get bored with plugging it in after every journey.
I don't have a charger yet, so would have to get that sorted (or a waterproof outdoor socket). Opening the garage door to plug in a granny charger would get old very quickly.
I have a smart meter, so swapping to an EV tariff should be possible. Need to do the sums.
One concern is that many of the plug-in hybrids that I would consider buying were over £40k when new, so an extra £390 road tax for a few years. Not a problem with fully-electric, or even with petrol where the list prices were lower.
I have a smart meter, so swapping to an EV tariff should be possible. Need to do the sums.
One concern is that many of the plug-in hybrids that I would consider buying were over £40k when new, so an extra £390 road tax for a few years. Not a problem with fully-electric, or even with petrol where the list prices were lower.
Cars currently (or recently) on my shortlist:
Peugeot 3008 GT, the 300bhp hybrid current model
Sportage hybrid, in top spec GT- S trim
Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate
Kia Niro, in 4 trim
Cupra Born, in V3 trim (V2 trim might be sufficient)
MG4 X
I'd prefer the top spec versions, as both my current cars are well-specced, and I don't want to give up the "toys".
All are currently available for £30 to 35k.
The Born might be a little cramped inside?
The MG4 X was favourite, but potential issues with trim and driver aids are a bit off-putting.
Like the looks of the Ioniq from the outside, but might be a little too big. Same with the Kia EV6.
Both the hybrids attract the £40k road tax premium.
I really need to go and drive a few of them.
Peugeot 3008 GT, the 300bhp hybrid current model
Sportage hybrid, in top spec GT- S trim
Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ultimate
Kia Niro, in 4 trim
Cupra Born, in V3 trim (V2 trim might be sufficient)
MG4 X
I'd prefer the top spec versions, as both my current cars are well-specced, and I don't want to give up the "toys".
All are currently available for £30 to 35k.
The Born might be a little cramped inside?
The MG4 X was favourite, but potential issues with trim and driver aids are a bit off-putting.
Like the looks of the Ioniq from the outside, but might be a little too big. Same with the Kia EV6.
Both the hybrids attract the £40k road tax premium.
I really need to go and drive a few of them.
Jogger is slower than my current C3 Aircross 1.2, so not what I'm looking for. It would be a viable alternative to a basic Rifter or Berlingo.
Having read a few roadtests of the MG HS, it's a solid but uninspiring choice for a Hybrid.
I'd prefer a 2 year old fully-electric Ioniq 5 at the price though - looks so much more modern.
Having read a few roadtests of the MG HS, it's a solid but uninspiring choice for a Hybrid.
I'd prefer a 2 year old fully-electric Ioniq 5 at the price though - looks so much more modern.
The economy numbers quoted for hybrids really confuse me.
I've read quite a few reviews where it's stated that a car will do 30 or 40 miles on the battery. That's fair enough, as the batteries in plug-ins tend to be 10 to 12 kWH, so getting 3 to 4 miles per kWH.
They then go on to say it takes 4.5 hours to recharge using a 7kW home charger. That would be 30 kWH? On a standard rate tariff, more expensive than running on petrol.
Real life numbers being quoted of 3 miles per kWH, 10p per mile on a standard tariff. 6p a mile cheaper than a 40mpg petrol car.
Doing 6000 miles a year, half on electric, that would save less than £200 a year. Would that even cover the extra insurance cost, let alone the higher purchase price or potential "luxury car" road tax supplement because it cost more to buy than the petrol equivalent?
Then there's the reduction in mpg when running on petrol because of the extra weight, and the cost of getting a charger installed.
Obviously hybrids make bigger savings driving in urban areas because of regenerative braking. Wouldn't really work that way with my usage.
Seems to me that plug-in hybrids only make financial sense for urban users on a cheap tariff, or for the bik savings, or if it cost the same to buy as the petrol version secondhand.
I've read quite a few reviews where it's stated that a car will do 30 or 40 miles on the battery. That's fair enough, as the batteries in plug-ins tend to be 10 to 12 kWH, so getting 3 to 4 miles per kWH.
They then go on to say it takes 4.5 hours to recharge using a 7kW home charger. That would be 30 kWH? On a standard rate tariff, more expensive than running on petrol.
Real life numbers being quoted of 3 miles per kWH, 10p per mile on a standard tariff. 6p a mile cheaper than a 40mpg petrol car.
Doing 6000 miles a year, half on electric, that would save less than £200 a year. Would that even cover the extra insurance cost, let alone the higher purchase price or potential "luxury car" road tax supplement because it cost more to buy than the petrol equivalent?
Then there's the reduction in mpg when running on petrol because of the extra weight, and the cost of getting a charger installed.
Obviously hybrids make bigger savings driving in urban areas because of regenerative braking. Wouldn't really work that way with my usage.
Seems to me that plug-in hybrids only make financial sense for urban users on a cheap tariff, or for the bik savings, or if it cost the same to buy as the petrol version secondhand.
MrTrilby said:
I disagree. We live in a rural village, and getting anywhere involves using NSL roads. There is no reduction in MPG because of anything - the MPG of ours running purely on petrol with a flat battery is better than the non hybrid equivalent of the same car, and vastly better than anything of comparable performance. Ours is an AWD SUV with 455bhp capable of 0-60 in 4.6s that we get 40mpg when the battery is flat - show me a petrol SUV that can do the same. It’s pretty much the same mpg of our old diesel SUV that was much slower, and I no longer have to faff with diesel.
They’re definitely not for everybody. They’re unlikely to save you so much money that you retire early and spend every holiday in the Caribbean. But they’re lovely to drive with a small saving in running costs rather than a cost penalty for that loveliness. For us it was in the same range of prices of other cars that we were considering.
How often do you get offered high performance, lovely to drive, lower running costs, and you’re not paying a premium for it? It was a no brainer for us. Others will have different priorities - each to their own. The only flies in the ointment for us are luxury car tax and having to plug it in every time we use it.
XC60 T8? Interesting that it works for you in a rural setting. 40mpg is impressive, I struggled to get than on a run in a 3 litre diesel Touareg, and a 2 litre diesel Sportage was only slightly over 40mpg long term average.They’re definitely not for everybody. They’re unlikely to save you so much money that you retire early and spend every holiday in the Caribbean. But they’re lovely to drive with a small saving in running costs rather than a cost penalty for that loveliness. For us it was in the same range of prices of other cars that we were considering.
How often do you get offered high performance, lovely to drive, lower running costs, and you’re not paying a premium for it? It was a no brainer for us. Others will have different priorities - each to their own. The only flies in the ointment for us are luxury car tax and having to plug it in every time we use it.
The performance upgrade over the "basic" petrol versions is also welcome, and that's the reason why I was considering a plug-in hybrid.
However, it's not really "no premium", is it?
List price is £6k higher than petrol-only for the same trim. Doesn't the same premium apply pro rata as the car depreciates? Or did you get a stonking discount (or lease deal) compared to a petrol version?
MrTrilby said:
Yes, exactly that. They were offering it on 0% with around £9k off list, taking it to about the same as the non hybrid. I think they still are. And it's a much nicer car to drive.
For various reasons it spent a week not being charged and my wife drove it Cambridge - Oxford return and got 40mpg out of it. And that's the lowest MPG we'll ever get from it in the conditions that favour a petrol/diesel (long distance easy driving). In the worst sort of conditions for diesel/petrol: short journeys from cold, the T8 doesn't use any petrol at all. Given that people seem to say the diesel XC60 averages mid 30s MPG, and the big petrol AWD XC60 averages high 20s to low 30s, I'm happy with that.
I also like that if it's raining in the morning and I don't want to cycle to work, I can jump in the car and I'm not worrying about short journeys nadgering up diesel emissions systems (our previous diesel would only just get the oil up to temperature after an 11 mile NSL commute), and I don't feel quite so guilty about the CO2 it's putting out. Especially since it's currently on charge from our solar panels.
Makes good sense then if you wanted an XC60.For various reasons it spent a week not being charged and my wife drove it Cambridge - Oxford return and got 40mpg out of it. And that's the lowest MPG we'll ever get from it in the conditions that favour a petrol/diesel (long distance easy driving). In the worst sort of conditions for diesel/petrol: short journeys from cold, the T8 doesn't use any petrol at all. Given that people seem to say the diesel XC60 averages mid 30s MPG, and the big petrol AWD XC60 averages high 20s to low 30s, I'm happy with that.
I also like that if it's raining in the morning and I don't want to cycle to work, I can jump in the car and I'm not worrying about short journeys nadgering up diesel emissions systems (our previous diesel would only just get the oil up to temperature after an 11 mile NSL commute), and I don't feel quite so guilty about the CO2 it's putting out. Especially since it's currently on charge from our solar panels.
I just had a look, and they are still offering hefty discounts and 0% with a 50% deposit.
£69k for the top spec though, and that seems to be after the discount!
MrTrilby said:
I'm pretty sure that £69k is list price for the T8. We paid just over £60k.
And yes, we wanted an XC60, for a number of reasons. A big one being that my wife had just walked away totally uninjured from her XC40 after it was written off by an HGV on the M11. Model Y was also up for consideration.
That's a very good reason for buying another Volvo. Even if other cars might be equally good in an accident, the psychological reassurance is priceless.And yes, we wanted an XC60, for a number of reasons. A big one being that my wife had just walked away totally uninjured from her XC40 after it was written off by an HGV on the M11. Model Y was also up for consideration.
If my budget was £60k, I'd be tempted. Only looking to spend £35k absolute maximum, preferably closer to £30k, so that means a lightly-used car with a new list price of £40 to £50k I think. Might be able to stretch a fair bit if I wait a year and then offset an EV against self-assesment?
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff