Discussion
Murph7355 said:
DMC2 said:
Because a petrol car no matter the age you can fill up with fuel in 2 minutes, and get a consistent range. With a heater on. The EVs that are on the roads just now that take long periods to charge and offer pitiful winter range will be completely redundant when they release EVs that charge in 2 minutes and have 400 mile range in winter. Also, high end EVs such as Taycans have terrible residual values as business owners (who are the majority buyer) have no interest in a £100k used vehicle when they can't get the benefits of a new car. And then we get onto the ever increasing insurance costs, as the slightest bump writes off an EV due to the battery damage/replacement cost.
- There are not going to be EVs that can charge for 400 miles in 2mins any time soon
- And that assumes that this is really needed. It's been done to death on various pages.....
Typical daily mileage is around 30 miles per day in the UK for the vast majority of people.
On the occasion you travel longer, even in a Taycan in winter you will get 180 miles (cabin at 22degC, 4 heated seats on, volume at 11 etc). At 60mph (a fast average on UK roads) that's 3hrs driving. 20mins at reasonably available fast chargers and you get another 150 miles+
The "issues" in this space, on today's roads, are more psychological than real for the very vast majority of people.
- Residual values of any 100k fast saloon/estate are not great. Things aren't helped on the EV front with the tax subsidies "funnelling" people down new only, and Porsche making a proper of horlicks of the supply/demand equation.
- The "slightest bump" is more b
ks I'm afraid. Insurance premiums are stiff, but that is not limited to EVs right now. The insurance industry is, allegedly, on its arse in terms of what it's paying out. EVs are such a small percentage of vehicles on the roads, and this problem has been rising for a while, that they are not to blame. The industry and us as customers have been our own worst enemies - supply chain issues giving parts delays, insisting on hire cars for these extended periods...shock and horror when premiums rise.
). They also do not have enough people trained on the platform.Some people really don't like EVs for whatever reason. That's fine. There are plenty of cars I don't like. I like to think mostly for rational reasons. But there are inevitably times when they'll be irrational. Just like most (not all, but most) of the anti-EV bunkum that gets spouted.
When these sort of arguments are typed it reminds me of when people used to wave their arms in the air at the Ferrari 456 beause it's bonnet cost 20k to replace. 20k! How could you even consider running a car when a simple bonnet costs 20k to replace!!! And how often does that need to happen...?
Dr S said:
Well, whilst our current Macan is mainly used for shorter distances we do long-distance travel as well. A car that does not work on long journeys is irrelevant. Also, with my 7.2 GT3 I have done a range of long-distance trips (e.g. ~5h non-stop runs to the Ring - hail the 90 litre fuel tank) and a car that does not deliver this is irrelevant
To you.Not to "most people".
The number of people doing 5 hour non-stop drives to the 'Ring or anywhere is tiny.
When I first got my Caterham I drove to Spa and slept in it when I got there. Most people wouldn't. And I sure as hell wouldn't do it these days
I'm not suggesting that an EV is for everyone. I'm happy they're not - we're all different.
But there are plenty of arguments "against" on PH that don't stack up logically (some at all, some for "most people").
I had a Taycan 4s. I did a 4 hr drive to Manchester, and 4 hrs back. What a miserable experience. Super chargers not working, queues for chargers, terrible range with the heater on. Half way home my daughter said to me 'this car is sold isn't it'. Too right. Sitting about in a god awful service station for an hour is not my idea of fun. Unless you are buying an EV for short journeys only, forget it. I will never have another one until I'm either forced, or the charging network is fixed.
Murph7355 said:
Dr S said:
Well, whilst our current Macan is mainly used for shorter distances we do long-distance travel as well. A car that does not work on long journeys is irrelevant. Also, with my 7.2 GT3 I have done a range of long-distance trips (e.g. ~5h non-stop runs to the Ring - hail the 90 litre fuel tank) and a car that does not deliver this is irrelevant
To you.Not to "most people".
The number of people doing 5 hour non-stop drives to the 'Ring or anywhere is tiny.
When I first got my Caterham I drove to Spa and slept in it when I got there. Most people wouldn't. And I sure as hell wouldn't do it these days
I'm not suggesting that an EV is for everyone. I'm happy they're not - we're all different.
But there are plenty of arguments "against" on PH that don't stack up logically (some at all, some for "most people").
TX.
DMC2 said:
I had a Taycan 4s. I did a 4 hr drive to Manchester, and 4 hrs back. What a miserable experience. Super chargers not working, queues for chargers, terrible range with the heater on. Half way home my daughter said to me 'this car is sold isn't it'. Too right. Sitting about in a god awful service station for an hour is not my idea of fun. Unless you are buying an EV for short journeys only, forget it. I will never have another one until I'm either forced, or the charging network is fixed.
How often do you make this journey to Manchester? Or similar journeys?If it's regular, then an EV is not suitable for you. That doesn't mean that they don't work for anyone though.
But a lot of people seem to think that because they do a long drive once in a blue moon and their EV won't re-charge in 15 seconds, EVs are the devil and the equivalent of a chocolate teapot.
They're not, but they have a usage case. That usage case works for more people than perhaps realise it.
I agree that the charging network is pants and when I got an EV, it was on the proviso that I'd not have to regularly use it (public charging) But I soon found that within my 15-20k mileage per year, the number of journeys above 200 miles round trip was tiny, therefore the inconvenience was negligible.
If you, or anyone else:
> Can't charge at home
> Only has access to one car (I insisted in my mind that I needed access to one ICE car in the household - my OH's)
> Regularly does above 200 mile round trips, without easy access to charging on route
> Has to tow a lot
Then EVs, in my opinion, aren't for you. Unlucky - move on and buy an ICE car.
I think you get a Taycan if you want a drivers car and don’t regularly do more than 200 miles.
The Macan will have more range and practicality, but won’t be very Porsche. I don’t really see anything (as of yet) that makes me want to go out and buy one of these. Happy to have a drive of one when they have a demo car and I’ll keep an open mind, but not feeling it as of yet.
The Macan will have more range and practicality, but won’t be very Porsche. I don’t really see anything (as of yet) that makes me want to go out and buy one of these. Happy to have a drive of one when they have a demo car and I’ll keep an open mind, but not feeling it as of yet.
Grantstown said:
I think you get a Taycan if you want a drivers car and don’t regularly do more than 200 miles.
The Macan will have more range and practicality, but won’t be very Porsche. I don’t really see anything (as of yet) that makes me want to go out and buy one of these. Happy to have a drive of one when they have a demo car and I’ll keep an open mind, but not feeling it as of yet.
Not so sure about “not being very Porsche”, sure it’s not a 911, but have a look at the Autocar India short video on YouTube with the pro driver drifting it through bends on the track at Leipzeig? I at least was very impressed they could engineer a 2 tonne plus SUV accordingly! The Macan will have more range and practicality, but won’t be very Porsche. I don’t really see anything (as of yet) that makes me want to go out and buy one of these. Happy to have a drive of one when they have a demo car and I’ll keep an open mind, but not feeling it as of yet.
xxxx5 said:
OPC rang today, configurator live from a week next Thursday and I can spec my Macan EV. Hope to take deliver late 24. Starting price for 4 will be £70k, Turbo will be £95k. Only two models out at launch. Others include a 2wd only will be out next year.
Did he say what BHP the 4 will have please - the much rumoured 430? I’d struggle to pay £95K plus for Macan….xxxx5 said:
OPC rang today, configurator live from a week next Thursday and I can spec my Macan EV. Hope to take deliver late 24. Starting price for 4 will be £70k, Turbo will be £95k. Only two models out at launch. Others include a 2wd only will be out next year.
Talk about royally taking the piss. Who on earth would buy one of these at that sort of price. A hot hatch on stilts with a fancy badge stuck on the front. Surely people have seen whats happened to the Taycan. xxxx5 said:
OPC rang today, configurator live from a week next Thursday and I can spec my Macan EV. Hope to take deliver late 24. Starting price for 4 will be £70k, Turbo will be £95k. Only two models out at launch. Others include a 2wd only will be out next year.
Was seriously looking at one but 70+ is too rich for me as by the time u have a few basic options that’s an expensive car. Mind you reckon it will keep its price well as no doubt will sell well even at that price Terminator X said:
Murph7355 said:
Dr S said:
Well, whilst our current Macan is mainly used for shorter distances we do long-distance travel as well. A car that does not work on long journeys is irrelevant. Also, with my 7.2 GT3 I have done a range of long-distance trips (e.g. ~5h non-stop runs to the Ring - hail the 90 litre fuel tank) and a car that does not deliver this is irrelevant
To you.Not to "most people".
The number of people doing 5 hour non-stop drives to the 'Ring or anywhere is tiny.
When I first got my Caterham I drove to Spa and slept in it when I got there. Most people wouldn't. And I sure as hell wouldn't do it these days
I'm not suggesting that an EV is for everyone. I'm happy they're not - we're all different.
But there are plenty of arguments "against" on PH that don't stack up logically (some at all, some for "most people").
TX.
Genuinely interested in peoples thoughts on where values will go on the new Macan EV? I remember when the original Macan came out the supply shortfall left depreciation at low levels for quite a while. Do we think the EV will slide significantly from launch or tend to mirror the original albeit to a lesser extent?
Given the general desire for premium SUV in the market place, I suspect (the cheaper model in particular) will do significantly better than the taycan has in terms of retaining value…
Given the general desire for premium SUV in the market place, I suspect (the cheaper model in particular) will do significantly better than the taycan has in terms of retaining value…
if the Taycan depreciation scandal didn’t occur then I would have said £70k & £95k was a good punt assuming most optional extras would add another £15k. Unfortunately the Taycan crash means that I think Porsche have shot themselves in both feet. The turbo needs to come in under £100k with options for a P&J machine whilst the 4 needs to be around £80k with options for a daily or SWMBO vehicle. I am saying this since the Macan is for the aspirational sector of the market.
GT4RS said:
Terminator X said:
Murph7355 said:
Dr S said:
Well, whilst our current Macan is mainly used for shorter distances we do long-distance travel as well. A car that does not work on long journeys is irrelevant. Also, with my 7.2 GT3 I have done a range of long-distance trips (e.g. ~5h non-stop runs to the Ring - hail the 90 litre fuel tank) and a car that does not deliver this is irrelevant
To you.Not to "most people".
The number of people doing 5 hour non-stop drives to the 'Ring or anywhere is tiny.
When I first got my Caterham I drove to Spa and slept in it when I got there. Most people wouldn't. And I sure as hell wouldn't do it these days
I'm not suggesting that an EV is for everyone. I'm happy they're not - we're all different.
But there are plenty of arguments "against" on PH that don't stack up logically (some at all, some for "most people").
TX.
It wouldn't be starting off at zero in all likelihood as it would have been plugged in at home between being used little and the call. (Though to be fair that doesn't account for you having done a 5hr drive non-stop at 100mph in - 12degC temps
). And the stop would be 15-20mins tops to get the 300 miles.
WE GO SKIING ONCE A YEAR I MAKE THE KIDS PISS IN A BUCKET SO WE DRIVE OVERNIGHT WITHOUT STOPPING SO UNTIL AN EV CAN DO 1000 MILES IN ONE GO AT 95MPH CRUISE WITH A FULLY LOADED ROOF BOX THE HEATING ON AND HEATED SEATS AND HEATED STEERING WHEEL IN MINUS 18 TO THE ALPS ON HOLIDAY ONCE A YEAR IM NOT GOING TO BUY IT.
Greenmantle said:
if the Taycan depreciation scandal didn’t occur then I would have said £70k & £95k was a good punt assuming most optional extras would add another £15k. Unfortunately the Taycan crash means that I think Porsche have shot themselves in both feet. The turbo needs to come in under £100k with options for a P&J machine whilst the 4 needs to be around £80k with options for a daily or SWMBO vehicle. I am saying this since the Macan is for the aspirational sector of the market.
A BMW i5 starts at £75k. A BMW iX starts at £70k, both with no optionsHell, an X5 hybrid with a decent spec starts at £80k before options
An Audi e-tron GT starts at circa £90k, so basically there's no way a Macan will be £80k with options or a Turbo under £100k.
The Taycan has suffered from a number of factors but I would say is a victim of what it is (a large saloon with a big price that is experiencing a move to depreciation normality) rather than a 'scandal'
I'd compare it to a Panamera, although the Panamera has suffered less in a sense it wasn't so popular and cost-effective as a new purchase so, as a result, there's less units available.
I watch a youtube video yesterday that did a real world test (well driving at 70mph in the US) on the new Macan E and they got 322 miles on a full charge with 1% battery left. Not bad really but I thing pricing will be a contributing factor on its success. If it's more expensive than the Q4 on which it share the platform and drivetrain then it may well struggle initially until the 2WD variant is released.
https://youtu.be/ab1AIGLpd_0?si=Mx-qx-WynJKDQ88n
We also have a Tesla as well as the CGTS and as it's a company car we aren't bothered about maintaining battery life in the ling term so we charge when we want to and always to 100% is doing so over night. If it were our own however, we'd probably run it down to 10% then charge to 80% to maintain the battery life. Nothing wrong in the odd 100% charge now and then though.
https://youtu.be/ab1AIGLpd_0?si=Mx-qx-WynJKDQ88n
We also have a Tesla as well as the CGTS and as it's a company car we aren't bothered about maintaining battery life in the ling term so we charge when we want to and always to 100% is doing so over night. If it were our own however, we'd probably run it down to 10% then charge to 80% to maintain the battery life. Nothing wrong in the odd 100% charge now and then though.
Gassing Station | Porsche EVs | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff