Discounts on new Taycans?

[wyson]

ChrisW. said:

Some suggest that the economy of the Taycan is poor ... is this down to the way in which the cars are being driven (in which case a Tesla might be the same) or is it a characteristic of the car ?

Range is a critical issue ...

The other thing is that it is a large car wishing to be a sports car ... does this really work ?

I shall be interested to see how the new E-Boxster performs in this respect.

The heating and cooling system will be a large part of it, because Li Ion batteries always want to sit in a goldilocks temp range. Tesla’s is the best in the industry. Can look up octovalve if you are interested. Basically the system can scavenge heat from the interior, exterior, motors, batteries etc and pump it anywhere in any combination. No one has done it at that sort of granular level apart from Tesla.

Tesla are trying to max out on efficiency and software integration, they are way ahead of everyone in the industry for the latter too.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 2nd November 21:32

[tim993]

This is all very interesting discussion.
Fundamently the depreciation rationale is the same whatever the EV since nearly all new are bought with 100% corp tax write down (+/- then leased in salary sacrifice by employees who dont have companies but can benefit from the lease company having written it down).
We have a zs ev which lost half its value as we drove it off the forecourt but sill represented a saving for us having bought it new.
As an aside it is a great car (a ronseal car) with many things porsche charge thousands for thrown in for free but it is definitely not a battery and an engine but my wife doesnt care.
At 15k used it might be attractive against 15k ice cars.
When a taycan loses 50% then there are many more attractive ice cars new and old that are probably more attractive than a used taycan to many (including a brand new tesla) which means that there are less buyers and more competition so the depreciation hits harder and the number is bigger.


However they are fabulous cars and hopefully i will have cross tourismo 4s next week. The tax incentive is going soon and i intend to own for a long time as i rather like my battery and engine to come well built, well engineered and beautifully finished!

[Murph7355]

TTmonkey said:

Range isn’t the issue. It’s recharge time.

I dont want to spend an hour at a recharge place.

Make it 15 minutes to add 250 miles. And I’m in.

You can add around 170 miles in 15mins in the Taycan.

Vast majority of my driving is 30-50 miles per day. I think most people are at the lower end of that.

Maybe it's me getting old, but range isn't really a critical issue when you can charge that way...go for a p, get a snack or whatever and your 15mins is done. 170 miles is 2-3hrs driving. So usable (if not a "6hr drive to Cornwall" automatic choice).

DMZ said:

...I’m struggling to think why I would pay much of a premium for a used Taycan when I can choose from a large selection of very nice used cars.

Because they're a seriously good car. Forget the drive train.

Steve Sutcliffe's a pretty well known Petrolhead...this video captures it well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAVJaS6t6to

It's the first car that made me want to replace my B7 RS4...and I've not been too upset at off loading the 997 either.

The one criticism that could rightly be levelled at it is that it is a wide car. If it were 4-6in narrower (/scaled down) it would be perfect.

ChrisW. said:

Some suggest that the economy of the Taycan is poor ... is this down to the way in which the cars are being driven (in which case a Tesla might be the same) or is it a characteristic of the car ?
...
The other thing is that it is a large car wishing to be a sports car ... does this really work ?

I shall be interested to see how the new E-Boxster performs in this respect.

It is very easy to travel much quicker than you realise. And the performance is smile inducing. So I do think that impacts range.

For such a big, heavy car, you really don't notice it that much. It cannot be fully disguised. You're not going to mistake it for a 911. But it's just a very good drive.

I'm not sure how much this sort of drivetrain will suit a Boxster though at present. Not sure how they'll package enough battery to preserve range etc.

[Gullwings]

garystoybox said:

That’s a bit like saying you can’t differentiate a Bentley from a VW. An engine is an engine?
Spend time in a Taycan (mine is the most rounded daily I’ve ever had) and you quickly notice what the extra money gets you. Steering, handling, ride quality, etc way ahead of Tesla (as it should be given the cost). A 0-60 time has never been the measure of a vehicles attributes. Otherwise we’d all be driving Golf R’s (which are obviously the best car in the world) rather than supercrs

If they both had exactly the same engine, then yes I would be saying the same thing

The porsche was a nicer more traditional car feel, but for me personally I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Which is a shame as the taycan is the best looking EV out there

I'd still be keen to know where people see the direction of EV development going, with the exception of more range and speed

[phib]

For me the charging / range anxiety thing isn’t an issue, did quite a few miles last week ! And had to charge once publicly on the 6hr journey at rugby services, anyone that can do more than three hours in a car without needing a break is a better man than me!
Re the Tesla I never ever considered one and quite frankly if Porsche didn’t do the Taycan I would still be in a petrol or diesel car.

[ChrisW.]

I just can't understand why Porsche don't subsidise their sale with low cost finance to clear them.

For those in the know (customers comparing alternatives etc) the Taycan is currently a very expensive option and a luxury that ever fewer people can afford or really need.

Of course there will always be some sales but how long will the current stock take to clear ?

[red_duke]

I do wonder if the large stock of unsold new Taycans is a result of over manufacture or order cancellations due to the interest rate squeeze?

[tyrrell]

Yep I agree it’s a great looking and brilliant car, it’s just no one can afford to buy one at current prices and interest rates.

[Murph7355]

tyrrell said:

Yep I agree it’s a great looking and brilliant car, it’s just no one can afford to buy one at current prices and interest rates.

Not everyone buys on finance....

But the volumes of stock are huge, and have been building for a while.

[tyrrell]

Well I would say the vast majority of Taycans are bought on finance and this is the problem.

They need to bite the bullet for a while, with £10k deposit contribution along with subsidised pcp rates down at 3% say along with 15% to 20% discounts off the cars. It’s the only way to shift them before the face lift model turns up early next year.

It will take them a while to respond as they have not been in this position for years, eventually they will get a grip and give the dealers the incentives to shift them, watch this space.

[Gregmitchell]

Murph7355 said:

tyrrell said:

Yep I agree it’s a great looking and brilliant car, it’s just no one can afford to buy one at current prices and interest rates.

Not everyone buys on finance....

But the volumes of stock are huge, and have been building for a while.

the vast majority finance a car, who wants to put £100k cash into an depreciating asset and when you also lose that GFV and the ability to hand it back when the depreciation falls off a cliff, anyone who paid cash for a Taycan is massively out of pocket compared to someone who financed.

[Murph7355]

Gregmitchell said:

Murph7355 said:

tyrrell said:

Yep I agree it’s a great looking and brilliant car, it’s just no one can afford to buy one at current prices and interest rates.

Not everyone buys on finance....

But the volumes of stock are huge, and have been building for a while.

the vast majority finance a car, who wants to put £100k cash into an depreciating asset and when you also lose that GFV and the ability to hand it back when the depreciation falls off a cliff, anyone who paid cash for a Taycan is massively out of pocket compared to someone who financed.

At 10% rates...?

I do suspect people bailing on orders is a big part of the stick build up.

Irrespective of how they're being paid for, I also think another big "problem" is the tax incentivisation from new.

I suspect a large proportion were bought through limited companies.

Once the Ltd company offloads, the market for 6 figure cars with no tax incentivisation is small.

Am not sure whether constrained supply last year is contributing too (Possibly). And whether their ratios of EV to ICE builds is coming into play (doubt it yet).

Anyway... I'm happy that I got a spec close to a new order I originally placed for a decent chunk of money less... And fully expect to lose a chunk more, but don't care that massively as the car's great and not being sold for a while

[Gregmitchell]

Murph7355 said:

Gregmitchell said:

Murph7355 said:

tyrrell said:

Yep I agree it’s a great looking and brilliant car, it’s just no one can afford to buy one at current prices and interest rates.

Not everyone buys on finance....

But the volumes of stock are huge, and have been building for a while.

the vast majority finance a car, who wants to put £100k cash into an depreciating asset and when you also lose that GFV and the ability to hand it back when the depreciation falls off a cliff, anyone who paid cash for a Taycan is massively out of pocket compared to someone who financed.

At 10% rates...?

I do suspect people bailing on orders is a big part of the stick build up.

Irrespective of how they're being paid for, I also think another big "problem" is the tax incentivisation from new.

I suspect a large proportion were bought through limited companies.

Once the Ltd company offloads, the market for 6 figure cars with no tax incentivisation is small.

Am not sure whether constrained supply last year is contributing too (Possibly). And whether their ratios of EV to ICE builds is coming into play (doubt it yet).

Anyway... I'm happy that I got a spec close to a new order I originally placed for a decent chunk of money less... And fully expect to lose a chunk more, but don't care that massively as the car's great and not being sold for a while

They weren't at 10% when they sold them, I don't think anyone is "happy" to lose their shirt and then some on a car when they didn't expect too... even if you paid say £15k in interest you're still massively ahead as these cars are becoming a thorn in peoples sides as no one is buying them, imaging you paid £120k two years ago, now told it's worth £55k, but no one will still buy it.....

Edited by Gregmitchell on Friday 3rd November 12:29

[theboss]

It's only anecdotal and he could have been blowing smoke up my arse, but when I bought my business's iX 6 weeks ago they had several with big discounts (circa 25%) and I asked how they were doing. The response was, phone is ringing off the hook with enquiries but they can't sell easily because the finance rates are too high.

The 100% write down for new is overstated, it helps with cashflow but it's not a major incentive. I'd rather buy a lightly used car if significantly discounted and write it down at 18% per annum than pay any premium for brand new only to save all the tax in year one but then repay half of it upon disposal. My company's previous EV was leased and now it has two bought, one used and the other new so I'm not tied to any one mode of acquisition.

I realise people with cash might be more reluctant to let go of it in the current climate but if you have the cash sat there and your business is in a secure enough position to spend it, then it makes sense to use it when rates are 7% or in some cases much more. Especially given that the government would help themselves to 26.5% of the cash if it's still sat there at the end of the year, as well as of any interest received.

Edited by theboss on Friday 3rd November 14:45

[Cheib]

ChrisW. said:

I just can't understand why Porsche don't subsidise their sale with low cost finance to clear them.

For those in the know (customers comparing alternatives etc) the Taycan is currently a very expensive option and a luxury that ever fewer people can afford or really need.

Of course there will always be some sales but how long will the current stock take to clear ?

I think it’s because Porsche view it as the OPC’s problem right now. Everyone saw this coming it seems except the OPC’s who managed to get their used inventory’s at record levels just as the market went in to reverse.

Admittedly that is not why they have so many new cars but it shows that OPC’s need to take some responsibility too.

[W4NTED]

Ive taken a £40k hit in the past 8 months of ownership (its a great car by the way) but Im fking loving how Porsche are facing the heat. Arrogant bunch of pricks at the dealership for a very long time acting as if we needed them more than they need us.

Same guy who used to tell me I was lucky to have an allocation now offering me multiple cars at 10% off whilst I pull his balls asking for 0% finance too and a free service plan.

[Abc321]

Who is it who dictate the finance rates? I would think (and I have been wrong before) that the % rate is dictated by someone higher up than the salesman. I didn't realise that a negotiating point was the finance rate. Much more the price paid/service plan thrown in/tank of fuel/etc.

[Cheib]

Abc321 said:

Who is it who dictate the finance rates? I would think (and I have been wrong before) that the % rate is dictated by someone higher up than the salesman. I didn't realise that a negotiating point was the finance rate. Much more the price paid/service plan thrown in/tank of fuel/etc.

Higher up the chain...rate set by VWFS/Porsche GB. OPC's sometimes have some flex but not much...they receive commission but the finance agreement is between you and VWFS it is nothing to do with the OPC. I imagine if there is some flex OPC has to forgoe some commission.

Flex on finance much more likely in terms of a deposit contribution (also known a s a discount!)....they give a deposit contribution rather than a straight discount to make you take the finance to claw money back.

[neilf]

Cheib said:

Higher up the chain...rate set by VWFS/Porsche GB. OPC's sometimes have some flex but not much...they receive commission but the finance agreement is between you and VWFS it is nothing to do with the OPC. I imagine if there is some flex OPC has to forgoe some commission.

Flex on finance much more likely in terms of a deposit contribution (also known a s a discount!)....they give a deposit contribution rather than a straight discount to make you take the finance to claw money back.

I’ve just bought new Porsche number 5, all on VWFS via the OPC. Managed to negotiate a discount on all but one (GT4). Never received any sort of reduction in the finance rate as part of a deal, was told this was fixed by Porsche GB, dealers had no say in the APR.

[GT4RS]

neilf said:

Cheib said:

Higher up the chain...rate set by VWFS/Porsche GB. OPC's sometimes have some flex but not much...they receive commission but the finance agreement is between you and VWFS it is nothing to do with the OPC. I imagine if there is some flex OPC has to forgoe some commission.

Flex on finance much more likely in terms of a deposit contribution (also known a s a discount!)....they give a deposit contribution rather than a straight discount to make you take the finance to claw money back.

I’ve just bought new Porsche number 5, all on VWFS via the OPC. Managed to negotiate a discount on all but one (GT4). Never received any sort of reduction in the finance rate as part of a deal, was told this was fixed by Porsche GB, dealers had no say in the APR.

If a opc can’t control their finance rate on offer this could be the death of many porsche car sales staff. No point having a product to sell, which the dealership can’t control.

Isn’t it something like 11.9% on new and even more on used at a opc at moment?