Porsche Taycan and future Porsche EVs and values

[Sidsw]

the discounts offered just arent big enough to shift these things. imo people just dont want electric cars. i was speaking to a rolls dealer a few weeks back and customers are cancelling spectre orders in droves now that the intial fuss has died down.

[andrew]

Murph7355 said:

Saloon's unusable in the rear unless Snow White's your usual driver.

ST ftw. Though the CT is a great machine too.

you can get seven passengers in ???

[Charlie_1]

Murph7355 said:

Saloon's unusable in the rear unless Snow White's your usual driver.

ST ftw. Though the CT is a great machine too.

I have always thought it was the dwarfs that were short not her but Hey Ho

Edited by Charlie_1 on Wednesday 13th December 17:55

[SL550M]

Charlie_1 said:

Murph7355 said:

Saloon's unusable in the rear unless Snow White's your usual driver.

ST ftw. Though the CT is a great machine too.

I have always thought it was the dwarfs that were short not her but Hey Ho

Edited by Charlie_1 on Wednesday 13th December 17:55

Snow White is doing the driving. The dwarfs (can we say that now!) are in the back.

Random thread deviation!

[Murph7355]

SL550M said:

Charlie_1 said:

Murph7355 said:

Saloon's unusable in the rear unless Snow White's your usual driver.

ST ftw. Though the CT is a great machine too.

I have always thought it was the dwarfs that were short not her but Hey Ho

Edited by Charlie_1 on Wednesday 13th December 17:55

Snow White is doing the driving. The dwarfs (can we say that now!) are in the back.

Random thread deviation!

And it should have been "hi ho"

Sidsw said:

the discounts offered just arent big enough to shift these things. imo people just dont want electric cars. i was speaking to a rolls dealer a few weeks back and customers are cancelling spectre orders in droves now that the intial fuss has died down.

EVs? Or top end cars of any description at present?

As mentioned before, Porsche are in a bit of a perfect storm on the Taycan. How they recover the situation will be interesting.

But this is and has happened with other makers in the past. Look at Aston with the Vantage in 2007.

It's made worse for Porsche (part of the storm) because the tax advantages saw people who would never normally contemplate buying a 6 figure car, go for it. These people will have been more susceptible to the rest of the storm.

Everything will sell at a price. And we all have our different strike price. They're great cars (forget method of propulsion). I *wanted* one. So have bought.

If prices fall a chunk further, that will place pressure on other EV values and, subsequently, ICE values. That's probably a "good thing" in the longer term.

What Porsche should do is delay the face-lift and revisit sales numbers. If what they're pushing is out is to offset emissions elsewhere in the range, they need to cut back there too.

[Ballistic]

I'm a bit confused by all of the offers and discounts being bandied around at the moment.

What do you think I should be aiming for, for a new, demo or pre-reg Turbo S ST that lists @ circa £160k with all of the extras, if I was to complete by the year end?

I will have a p/x and probably be using Porsche finance.

[Discombobulate]

Ballistic said:

I'm a bit confused by all of the offers and discounts being bandied around at the moment.

What do you think I should be aiming for, for a new, demo or pre-reg Turbo S ST that lists @ circa £160k with all of the extras, if I was to complete by the year end?

I will have a p/x and probably be using Porsche finance.

No more than 120K for a new one. And hopefully 105-110 for pre-reg / demo.

Edited by Discombobulate on Thursday 14th December 16:08

[Nuttcase]

Lovely crayon TS ST in Bournemouth (new MY2023)

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...

[andrew]

[quote=Charlie_https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/post.asp?h=0&f=275&t=2054117&r=49782987&m=quoteReply1]

Murph7355 said:

Saloon's unusable in the rear unless Snow White's your usual driver.

ST ftw. Though the CT is a great machine too.

I have always thought it was the dwarfs that were short not her but Hey Ho

Edited by Charlie_1 on Wednesday 13th December 17:55

you mean hi ho hi ho...

[Grantstown]

I thought the rear legroom was exactly the same in all 3 Taycan versions.

[Murph7355]

Grantstown said:

I thought the rear legroom was exactly the same in all 3 Taycan versions.

Headroom very much isn't. Which makes a big difference IME.

I can just about sit behind myself at 6'4" in an ST. Foot room is the biggest challenge, and I wouldn't want to be in the car for hours in the back...but it's doable.

Not a chance in the saloon as I have to sit differently to avoid my head being in the headliner.

[youngsyr]

Nuttcase said:

Lovely crayon TS ST in Bournemouth (new MY2023)

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/details/porsch...

What I struggle with, and I guess this isn't limited to Porsche, but range topping models' interiors are barely discernible from the entry level model.

If I'm paying nearly double the price, I want a signifcantly better interior - more gadgets, better quality materials. The whole thing should really stand out as that's what you're looking at and experiencing for most of your time when you're using the car.

[Murph7355]

youngsyr said:

What I struggle with, and I guess this isn't limited to Porsche, but range topping models' interiors are barely discernible from the entry level model.

If I'm paying nearly double the price, I want a signifcantly better interior - more gadgets, better quality materials. The whole thing should really stand out as that's what you're looking at and experiencing for most of your time when you're using the car.

Depending on spec being compared, they generally are.

The nicer leather or alcantara interiors with carbon or nice finished elements do feel much nicer inside IME.

Double the price also ignores pretty large leaps in drivetrain and other spec items.

And you're right, it isn't Porsche limited.

[phib]

Ballistic said:

I'm a bit confused by all of the offers and discounts being bandied around at the moment.

What do you think I should be aiming for, for a new, demo or pre-reg Turbo S ST that lists @ circa £160k with all of the extras, if I was to complete by the year end?

I will have a p/x and probably be using Porsche finance.

I bought my turbo s st about 6 weeks ago and did loads of research on it at the time. The number of turbo ‘S’ ST’s has come down significantly, I wanted a black or grey and there were about 30 to choose from 6 weeks ago, now down to 21 I think (with a few odd spec ones)

For a new one I suspect you won’t get over 15% discount unless it’s a cancelled customer order and they have kept their deposit.

They might over value your px to help a little

Would have thought bottom line would be b c.£130k on a £160k one

Phib

[Discombobulate]

phib said:

I bought my turbo s st about 6 weeks ago and did loads of research on it at the time. The number of turbo ‘S’ ST’s has come down significantly, I wanted a black or grey and there were about 30 to choose from 6 weeks ago, now down to 21 I think (with a few odd spec ones)

For a new one I suspect you won’t get over 15% discount unless it’s a cancelled customer order and they have kept their deposit.

They might over value your px to help a little

Would have thought bottom line would be b c.£130k on a £160k one

Phib

I would suggest at least 25% new. And 30%+ for nearly new.
Cheapest new Turbo ST is currently £111k (OTR £140k). And that's before negotiation.
On a 160K car I would be looking for at least 40k off. Unless you really want all the extras listed...

Edited by Discombobulate on Friday 15th December 07:06

[phib]

Discombobulate said:

I would suggest at least 25% new. And 30%+ for nearly new.
Cheapest new Turbo ST is currently £111k (OTR £140k). And that's before negotiation.
On a 160K car I would be looking for at least 40k off. Unless you really want all the extras listed...

Edited by Discombobulate on Friday 15th December 07:06

Having just bought 2 now in the last 6 weeks (I can only talk for new ones)

It’s all about the % dealers are allowed to offer in discount, and currently it’s a hard stop at 15% max discount off list - no negotiation. Some movement in px value but not much.

I’ve had over 30 911’s, 4 taycans and a couple of cayennes, so a reasonable customer.

That’s where it’s as of today (having bought another one yesterday)

Phib

[Discombobulate]

phib said:

Having just bought 2 now in the last 6 weeks (I can only talk for new ones)

It’s all about the % dealers are allowed to offer in discount, and currently it’s a hard stop at 15% max discount off list - no negotiation. Some movement in px value but not much.

I’ve had over 30 911’s, 4 taycans and a couple of cayennes, so a reasonable customer.

That’s where it’s as of today (having bought another one yesterday)

Phib

But there are plenty on the OPC site (new) that are 20% or more discounted (including the Turbo example I gave). And that's before negotiations. Sure some cars - and some dealers - are different, but the one I highlight isn't top spec. I would expect even more off a very high specced one. I am currently negotiating to buy a 116K rrp new Taycan ST (actually £122k at current pricing) for just under £90k. Not quite there but I think it's going to happen (kiss of death no doubt....)

[rosino]

kmpowell said:

Firstly, for context, I own a GT4 (bought new) and I love the brand, so I have been seriously looking to get myself into 4S CT/ST to replace my current family wagon. But, no matter which way I look at it, unless you are business, a private purchase on one of these is a financial nightmare, even with the so called big 'discount' on stock cars.

A CT/ST is generally bought for all year round practicality, so the basic options of Adaptive Cruise, surround camera, upgraded stereo, auto dimming mirror, pan roof, matrix headlights etc are needed due to the nature of the car and how a car of that price is compared to the completion. Then when you're on the inside, the acres of plastic dash/tunnel/doors on a 4S really are terrible and do need/deserve to be covered up, so it at least looks/feels premium, and also creates a much more pleasant environment for driver and passengers who will be spending lots of time in it.

Then there's wheel choice. Nearly all these stock cars have the option 21's, but 21's on the 4S are both stupidly expensive (£3k!) and reduce range in pretty much all conditions by 5-10% versus the 20" wheel. Not that much if the car had a great range in the first place, but these are in reality only going to give 200-225 real world at the best of times, and max 180-200 at the worst of times, so any sort of middle-long trip are going to be hit/hurt badly if you are capped at a 80-100 drive each way. Having 20's therefore will really help.

So what I'm saying is the car you have linked to is probably two-fold a bit of a false economy, even with the £25k 'discount'. Apart from the pan roof, it is very basic, it has none of the options which are typically associated to a car of that nature, the inside is full on plastic, and the costly options it does have are mainly window dressing (and also the performance plus battery which IMO should be standard for a car of that price anyway v the competition). So any saving being made are not really a saving because finance GFV on the car is circa £50k after 3 years and £40k after 4 years, which is still a huge drop from a 'discounted' £85k outlay.

Now, some will argue that you don't need the options and it's just a run-around. Fair enough, then my question will come why not buy something else (e.g. Polestar 2, 400 range, £55k fully loaded, £30k GFV after 4 years, 0%APR)... then somebody will come along and say well this could be an emotional purchase... which then takes me back to a question, if this is an emotional purchase, why not buy an ICE for the same outlay...?

MY 2p FWIW, and not intended to offend or be confrontational, just some talking points.

Fully agree with this btw.. When I was looking for a used Macan and then a used Cayenne I was astonished about the amount of poverty spec cars that were available for sale. Put big wheels on and a panoramic roof and that's it. Ideally with the smallest possible engine.. Ppl would do anything to be seen in a Porsche doing the school run or their waitrose shopping i guess. Reality is, it's lacking basic stuff that any decent other car at this price point would have. Even BMW and Mercedes are better at throwing equipment in that make it feel remotely modern.

Adaptive cruise ? An absolute rarity. Lane change assist ? maybe 10%. Full leather instead of acres of plastic ? 30% . And so on and so forth. I spent weeks trying to find a decent Macan and in the end the only decent specs were Turbo as quite a bit comes standard, so you needed just an extra spent on it for a decent spec. Same with Cayenne.. i ended up with the Turbo for similar reasons..

I have a 997.2 S manual which i never use.. and a daily C63 AMG wagon which I adore but is sadly a bit too small inside.. but i am getting a bit itchy feet for something new and really trying to debate with myself if a fully specced Taycan CT for mid 70s is still worth the inevitable massive depreciation still to come.

Or I just buy yet another SUV (F-Pace SVR top of list, X5 also very nice but a bit more mundane..). Not sure if worth repeating the Cayenne experience.. still commands a premium and I suspect not as fun as the SVR nor as tech advances as the X5.

I would want to love the Taycan but just fear it will continue to drop faster than its ICE equivalent and its battery tech will become obsolete very fast making it even less relevant. I also suspect when the Macan electric will come out ppl will flock to that and not the Taycan as its going to be much more spacious and relevant for the target market.. Taycan was just an experiment and worked to begin with as company directors bought one instead of a 911 and saved 40-50% in the process because of tax.. once the Macan arrives with better tech, battery and package not sure the recipe will still be that successful especially with the monster depreciation they suffered.

[kmpowell]

Discombobulate said:

But there are plenty on the OPC site (new) that are 20% or more discounted (including the Turbo example I gave). And that's before negotiations. Sure some cars - and some dealers - are different, but the one I highlight isn't top spec. I would expect even more off a very high specced one. I am currently negotiating to buy a 116K rrp new Taycan ST (actually £122k at current pricing) for just under £90k. Not quite there but I think it's going to happen (kiss of death no doubt....)

Yup, I'm currently in the market for a 4S CT, and I'm being offered 20%+ off of stock cars, and that's before I start haggling. My spec is very specific though (must be on 20's, not 21's, being one thing that sadly eliminates 90% of available stock), so I've not yet found one that ticks my boxes and will have the discount too.

[rosino]

Buy one with 21' and swap them for 20' with an existing owner. Will be easy enough to do and there'll be a queue of ppl wanting 21' because they look nicer..