Complete kit car are going to design and build a Kit Car!

[KDIcarmad]

I have just got the March issue of Complete Kit Car and read that its staff are going to try to design and build a new kit car. They hope to do this in just a year and not kill each other. I am certain this will very interesting and so I am starting a place were we can all comment on the design and their progress.

I wish them good luck and hope they all stay friends.

[Iwantoneofthose]

I was half expecting Top Gear to have tried this. Or did this count?

[gtmdriver]

You're assuming that we're actually starting out as friends :-)

[pfedwards]

Iwantoneofthose said:

I was half expecting Top Gear to have tried this. Or did this count?

As this was 'rebodied' car, I wonder if Top Gear got it inspected by the DVLA, got the V5 changed and got it MOT'd?

Or did the BBC knowingly drive an illegal vehicle on the public highway?

Tut tut........

[Megaflow]

No need to notify the DVLA as it is a 'rebodied' car, therefore chassis type, construction and number remain as the manufacturer intended. If they had changed this then they would have needed to have notified the DVLA and had it inspected.

[downsman]

KDIcarmad said:

I have just got the March issue of Complete Kit Car and read that its staff are going to try to design and build a new kit car.

I haven't had a chance to read the article yet, but it is a great idea

[mnrvortxf20c]

i quite liked geoff!

[Steffan]

I just hope we do not see a regurgitated dated design based on the original Colin Chapman Super Seven. Still not bettered to this day. 50 years later.

Sadly I think the Kit Car business is very short on new ideas. I hope this crowd can produce something really different, achievable and innovative.

What we do not need is another unimaginative clone.

[qdos]

It will be very interesting to see what happens in this. There's certainly lots of people out there who have no end of ideas and indeed comments saying how they think a kit car should be but those with the balls get on and do it rather than talk about it. Well done to the team at CKC! I think they could come up with something pretty special as they have a good degree of talent and plenty of enthusiasm for the industry too so some excellent ingredients in the team make up.

We are always coming up with new ideas our selves but the main thing is to stay focused rather than jumping about on this or that idea. I'd love to help out with the project too as i'm sure many others would. Great idea for an article and I'd love to see it work too. My tip.... have a mock up in Lego first , works well for us (page 41 same March Issue)

[fuoriserie]

Interesting news...

[fuoriserie]

Steffan said:

I just hope we do not see a regurgitated dated design based on the original Colin Chapman Super Seven. Still not bettered to this day. 50 years later.

Sadly I think the Kit Car business is very short on new ideas. I hope this crowd can produce something really different, achievable and innovative.

What we do not need is another unimaginative clone.

I agree with you, the Seven hasn't been bettered because the concept is so pure and simple and effective.

Maybe exo-skeletons come close to this concept....

[fuoriserie]

qdos said:

It will be very interesting to see what happens in this. There's certainly lots of people out there who have no end of ideas and indeed comments saying how they think a kit car should be but those with the balls get on and do it rather than talk about it. Well done to the team at CKC! I think they could come up with something pretty special as they have a good degree of talent and plenty of enthusiasm for the industry too so some excellent ingredients in the team make up.

We are always coming up with new ideas our selves but the main thing is to stay focused rather than jumping about on this or that idea. I'd love to help out with the project too as i'm sure many others would. Great idea for an article and I'd love to see it work too. My tip.... have a mock up in Lego first , works well for us (page 41 same March Issue)

I'm looking forward to your ideas/comments and tips and also from all the enthusiasts that love kitcars and would love to see something different...

[cymtriks]

Steffan said:

Sadly I think the Kit Car business is very short on new ideas. I hope this crowd can produce something really different, achievable and innovative.

The reason you don't see new ideas is that most of them have been tried and didn't sell.

Sevens, and exoskeletons, are popular because they are simple to make, follow a proven formula and (occasionally) sell.

What we are left with are:

• Clones, rip offs and replicas of various classics (Cobra and other exotic copies)
• very simple sportscars like sevens and exoskeletons
• full body weekend/track-day little sportscars (Fisher Fury, Beattieracing, Sylva J15)
• bigger and more every day sportscars (Ultima, Murtaya)
• focused track day specials (Radical, Westfield XTR-2)
• beach buggies, sand rails and other off road stuff

Some of those don't actually sell very much.

I think there might be a market for a 2+2 as demonstrated by the Elan+2 and the Quantum but apart from that I can't think of much that would actually sell.

The biggest single thing that kit car makers need to focus on is ease of build and how they market to, and give aftersales help to, a generation that hardly do any work on cars at all and expect everything to work straight out of the box. Without that even standard stuff will struggle to sell in the future let alone wacky concepts that many (wrongly, IMHO) think are the way forwards.

[qdos]

fuoriserie said:

I'm looking forward to your ideas/comments and tips and also from all the enthusiasts that love kitcars and would love to see something different...

Personally I'd really love to see one of your designs make it to the real world Italo, and if I was on the team working with the voted brief in this issue my vote would be to do one of your buggies, though many of your sketches look great.

[KDIcarmad]

cymtriks said:

Steffan said:

Sadly I think the Kit Car business is very short on new ideas. I hope this crowd can produce something really different, achievable and innovative.

The reason you don't see new ideas is that most of them have been tried and didn't sell.

Sevens, and exoskeletons, are popular because they are simple to make, follow a proven formula and (occasionally) sell.

What we are left with are:

• Clones, rip offs and replicas of various classics (Cobra and other exotic copies)
• very simple sportscars like sevens and exoskeletons
• full body weekend/track-day little sportscars (Fisher Fury, Beattieracing, Sylva J15)
• bigger and more every day sportscars (Ultima, Murtaya)
• focused track day specials (Radical, Westfield XTR-2)
• beach buggies, sand rails and other off road stuff

Some of those don't actually sell very much.

I think there might be a market for a 2+2 as demonstrated by the Elan+2 and the Quantum but apart from that I can't think of much that would actually sell.

The biggest single thing that kit car makers need to focus on is ease of build and how they market to, and give aftersales help to, a generation that hardly do any work on cars at all and expect everything to work straight out of the box. Without that even standard stuff will struggle to sell in the future let alone wacky concepts that many (wrongly, IMHO) think are the way forwards.

At last year Detling show, if you took away all the Sevens the largest number of car left in club area would be three wheelers. Mostly 2CV based. I agree these are also simple sportscars. An update of these would be fun! As would a larger (1.8 instead of 605cc) three wheeled car.

[Steffan]

KDIcarmad said:

cymtriks said:

Steffan said:

Sadly I think the Kit Car business is very short on new ideas. I hope this crowd can produce something really different, achievable and innovative.

The reason you don't see new ideas is that most of them have been tried and didn't sell.

Sevens, and exoskeletons, are popular because they are simple to make, follow a proven formula and (occasionally) sell.

What we are left with are:

• Clones, rip offs and replicas of various classics (Cobra and other exotic copies)
• very simple sportscars like sevens and exoskeletons
• full body weekend/track-day little sportscars (Fisher Fury, Beattieracing, Sylva J15)
• bigger and more every day sportscars (Ultima, Murtaya)
• focused track day specials (Radical, Westfield XTR-2)
• beach buggies, sand rails and other off road stuff

Some of those don't actually sell very much.

I think there might be a market for a 2+2 as demonstrated by the Elan+2 and the Quantum but apart from that I can't think of much that would actually sell.

The biggest single thing that kit car makers need to focus on is ease of build and how they market to, and give aftersales help to, a generation that hardly do any work on cars at all and expect everything to work straight out of the box. Without that even standard stuff will struggle to sell in the future let alone wacky concepts that many (wrongly, IMHO) think are the way forwards.

At last year Detling show, if you took away all the Sevens the largest number of car left in club area would be three wheelers. Mostly 2CV based. I agree these are also simple sportscars. An update of these would be fun! As would a larger (1.8 instead of 605cc) three wheeled car.

I entirely agree with both posts on this.

Certainly an 1800 TC (K series???) three wheeler of modern design with a really exceptional aerodynamic coefficient and with enclosed bodywork and a really well thought out Targa top allowing some wind in the hair without losing MPH, or structural ability, would produce real interest.

Indeed I would happily sell some of my collection and buy the first kit off the mould. For a design meeting those criteria.

But this need to be a really well thought out project.

A CV clone is NOT what we need in Kit Cars.

An individual exciting affordable three wheeler with outstanding acceleration, lightweight, excellent top speed and modern, fully independent underpinnings.

I do think we need that. Please!

[FlossyThePig]

Steffan said:

Other contributions said:

Interesting stuff.

I entirely agree with both posts on this.

Certainly an 1800 TC (K series???) three wheeler of modern design with a really exceptional aerodynamic coefficient and with enclosed bodywork and a really well thought out Targa top allowing some wind in the hair without losing MPH, or structural ability, would produce real interest.

Indeed I would happily sell some of my collection and buy the first kit off the mould. For a design meeting those criteria.

But this need to be a really well thought out project.

A CV clone is NOT what we need in Kit Cars.

An individual exciting affordable three wheeler with outstanding acceleration, lightweight, excellent top speed and modern, fully independent underpinnings.

I do think we need that. Please!

A targa top will always have a dramatic affect on MPH if you want "wind in the hair" motoring.

As Aptera went to the wall Last December they can't complain if the shape was used as the basis of a three wheeler kit. A blend of Grinnall Scorpion and Aptera could be quite interesting. Unfortunately I think the market for cars too radically shaped will be even more limited.

[KDIcarmad]

FlossyThePig said:

Steffan said:

Other contributions said:

Interesting stuff.

I entirely agree with both posts on this.

Certainly an 1800 TC (K series???) three wheeler of modern design with a really exceptional aerodynamic coefficient and with enclosed bodywork and a really well thought out Targa top allowing some wind in the hair without losing MPH, or structural ability, would produce real interest.

Indeed I would happily sell some of my collection and buy the first kit off the mould. For a design meeting those criteria.

But this need to be a really well thought out project.

A CV clone is NOT what we need in Kit Cars.

An individual exciting affordable three wheeler with outstanding acceleration, lightweight, excellent top speed and modern, fully independent underpinnings.

I do think we need that. Please!

A targa top will always have a dramatic affect on MPH if you want "wind in the hair" motoring.

As Aptera went to the wall Last December they can't complain if the shape was used as the basis of a three wheeler kit. A blend of Grinnall Scorpion and Aptera could be quite interesting. Unfortunately I think the market for cars too radically shaped will be even more limited.

I have to agree party with this. Radically car will sell, take the Citroen DS. Personal I would not use the Aptera as a starting point as it body is a very complex moulding.



This is the California Computer II, a car never build. Is this close to your idea. A lift out roof panel for wind in the hair, could be added to this design. Person I would like to relocate the front wheels and use FWD.

[Steffan]

KDIcarmad said:

FlossyThePig said:

Steffan said:

Other contributions said:

Interesting stuff.

I entirely agree with both posts on this.

Certainly an 1800 TC (K series???) three wheeler of modern design with a really exceptional aerodynamic coefficient and with enclosed bodywork and a really well thought out Targa top allowing some wind in the hair without losing MPH, or structural ability, would produce real interest.

Indeed I would happily sell some of my collection and buy the first kit off the mould. For a design meeting those criteria.

But this need to be a really well thought out project.

A CV clone is NOT what we need in Kit Cars.

An individual exciting affordable three wheeler with outstanding acceleration, lightweight, excellent top speed and modern, fully independent underpinnings.

I do think we need that. Please!

A targa top will always have a dramatic affect on MPH if you want "wind in the hair" motoring.

As Aptera went to the wall Last December they can't complain if the shape was used as the basis of a three wheeler kit. A blend of Grinnall Scorpion and Aptera could be quite interesting. Unfortunately I think the market for cars too radically shaped will be even more limited.

I have to agree party with this. Radically car will sell, take the Citroen DS. Personal I would not use the Aptera as a starting point as it body is a very complex moulding.



This is the California Computer II, a car never build. Is this close to your idea. A lift out roof panel for wind in the hair, could be added to this design. Person I would like to relocate the front wheels and use FWD.

Nice car. Interesting shape.

There is a Kit Car manufacturer in the UK making complete mouldings for the Triumph Herald clones giving a reasonable vaguely 1950's look not unlike the Fairthorpe/Ashley/Turner models about then.

Sadly I can remember the originals and have owned two of the three never owned a Turner driven two. IMO its just like a lightweight Midget. Not surprisingly. Better body shape.

I examined the moulded quality of these kits in a factory trip some months ago.

The mould quality was fairly basic but could provide a reasonable kit car. I could buy one for £1100. But I will not base a new Kit Car on a Triumph Herald. Spent years trying to master the transverse spring wind up. Not for me. Old technology and unsafe with turbos superchargers and the like which I will fit.

Kit Cars are price sensitive now. I have worked on costing Kit prices for several manufacturers, in my capacity as an Accountant. For this to work the Kit needs to be comprehensive and sensibly priced. If anyone wants a build up cost price for a Kit Car based on these design parameters I will happily produce such an estimate based on your labour rates, overhead return and material cost and other such matters.

So if someone can get the basic design into an Autocad or similar format i can price the complete build cost estimate or Kit Cost estimate to enable serious consideration of the viability.

A car such as this design out to fly out.

There is nothing like it available it would be a real head turner and based on the right components could be an absolute winner.

I will even guarantee to buy the first completed Kit on the day of delivery.

Over to the designers, which I am never going to be.

Please PM me if anyone sees an opportunity.

I really would like to get some manufacturing going in the UK.

I do not wish to charge for this.

[Sonic7]

I think they should keep it as simple as possible, especially as they are attempting to compete in the very competitive budget end of the market. How about something like this ?