A nice own goal for westfield!
Discussion
For all of those thinking of buying a factory built westfield it looks like you'll be better off in your shed if the Fifth gear example that was on TV is anything to go by.
I REALLY REALLY would have thought that they'd be given a properly put together and set-up car for a track test, even going the extra mile with a few none standard parts/tyres(like caterham!).
However supplying a car held together with velcro and other ill fitting parts... oops.
I REALLY REALLY would have thought that they'd be given a properly put together and set-up car for a track test, even going the extra mile with a few none standard parts/tyres(like caterham!).
However supplying a car held together with velcro and other ill fitting parts... oops.
They've always been like that though. I bought a factory built one in 2001, and TBH the build and manufacturing quality was quite poor. At least the price reflected that though.
At the prices they are charging now, they need to be much much better. If anything they seem to have got worse looking at the review car.
As for their choice of engine, I've never really understood the appeal of a turbo 7. A seven is ALL about delicate throttle adjustability and you'll never get that with a tubby.
At the prices they are charging now, they need to be much much better. If anything they seem to have got worse looking at the review car.
As for their choice of engine, I've never really understood the appeal of a turbo 7. A seven is ALL about delicate throttle adjustability and you'll never get that with a tubby.
ferg said:
Sam_68, your thread has arrived!
Nah, not really. 
I'd be the first to admit that Westfield have lost their way a bit since Chris Smith sold up. The turbo engined car seems to be getting a bit of a slating all round.
I'm not an obsessive Westfield fan, anyway (if I'm an obsessive fan of any marques, it's Sylva and Lotus). It isn't the first turkey that Westfield has built (anybody remember the Topaz or the original Sports 2000?), and I'm sure it won't be the last.
...and any 'Seven' that has actually got any trim to fall off in the road tester's hand is clearly misconceived in my opinion!
ferg said:
This....
and inappropriate power delivery are both up your street, I thought!!
Ah, OK. Sorry - I thought you were expecting me to defend it, as a Westfield owner.and inappropriate power delivery are both up your street, I thought!!
Yeah, the idea of a 750kg 'Seven' with a badly-mapped turbo engine isn't going to win any awards from me!
Whilst I applaud the fact that Westfield have a history of experimenting with oddball ideas, whoever signed this one off as a key production model should perhaps think about a change of career.
I watched the video, and it was obvious that he didn't like it, but I felt most of his criticisms were bascially b
ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
singlecoil said:
I watched the video, and it was obvious that he didn't like it, but I felt most of his criticisms were bascially bks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
I think you're missing the point. It will be a nigh on 30k car when it's spec'd with the nice bits like big brakes, ARBs, lighter wheels, poly-bushed, Nitrons, etc. Westfield decided to send a car out for review, that has issues with the steering column and a badly spec'd or tuned engine. The public certainly won't get a better car than was tested, and I'd be furious if I had spent 25-30k on a car that then needed sorting in both the engine and handling department. At that money, they have no excuses for producing a car like that.ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
It really isn't good enough.
rhinochopig said:
singlecoil said:
I watched the video, and it was obvious that he didn't like it, but I felt most of his criticisms were bascially bks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
I think you're missing the point. It will be a nigh on 30k car when it's spec'd with the nice bits like big brakes, ARBs, lighter wheels, poly-bushed, Nitrons, etc. Westfield decided to send a car out for review, that has issues with the steering column and a badly spec'd or tuned engine. The public certainly won't get a better car than was tested, and I'd be furious if I had spent 25-30k on a car that then needed sorting in both the engine and handling department. At that money, they have no excuses for producing a car like that.ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
It really isn't good enough.
singlecoil said:
I watched the video, and it was obvious that he didn't like it, but I felt most of his criticisms were bascially bks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
Fair points, but in my opinion Westfield or, more critically, Potenza have made a rod for their own back. My view of factory-built kitcars are well documented on this forum so we won't go there, but essentially if Westfield want to be taken seriously as a car manufacturer (and supplying a car for 5th Gear would indicate that they are) then they need to put a LOT more effort into it than this.ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
If you insist on making a Seven 'luxurious' (!) with trim, then it's got to be fixed properly. Perhaps Jason wasn't the man to test this car... He's a racing driver and to him handling, power delivery, situation of controls are FAR more important than the trim....
It sounds like this car is falling in a poor spot of compromise between road and track car.
The column issue is laughable. Does it need to be adjustable by law? Why not just fix it permanently. It would be one less fault for people to moan about if lowering it is pointless.
As for the throttle...'not really a big problem to sort out'..I'm sure you're right, but on a £25K car should this be sorted before or after the car is sent for testing on national television and offering for sale...?
ferg said:
If you insist on making a Seven 'luxurious' (!) with trim, then it's got to be fixed properly. Perhaps Jason wasn't the man to test this car... He's a racing driver and to him handling, power delivery, situation of controls are FAR more important than the trim....
It sounds like this car is falling in a poor spot of compromise between road and track car.
But Velcro is an entirely adequate fixing method for pieces of trim like the one in the video. I don't know whether it wasn't positioned properly to start with, or how much force he applied to it to remove it, or whether it's somethign that needs to be removable in order to access some adjustement etc. Struck me as a trivial complaint.It sounds like this car is falling in a poor spot of compromise between road and track car.
ferg said:
The column issue is laughable. Does it need to be adjustable by law? Why not just fix it permanently. It would be one less fault for people to moan about if lowering it is pointless.
It's probably not the adjustable element that is the legal part of it. I suspect it's more about using a type approved column, and there aren't any non-adjustable ones available. I don't know for sure but I would be very surprised if that wasn't the explanation.ferg said:
As for the throttle...'not really a big problem to sort out'..I'm sure you're right, but on a £25K car should this be sorted before or after the car is sent for testing on national television and offering for sale...?
Somebody fked up, there's no doubt of that. Won't be the first time that's happened on a road test car, and probably won't be the last either, and to much bigger firms than Westfield. Remember the Mercedes A series?It would be interesting to peruse a a list of similar cars that are for sale in, for instance, France, and to see whether anybody in that market is likely to be seriously put off by that road test.
It just goes to show really. Build it yourself!
Other than the classic shape of the Seven and what that dictates, there's nothing in there that wouldn't be sorted by as the man says "building it yourself in your garage" Oh well I presume Westfield will be taking notes and doing a better job on the build in the future.
I do agree though and I know I'm going to be absolutely slated for this. It's time to move on from the Seven. It's had it's day. Sure a mighty fine day but it is 2010 and almost 2011 now!
Other than the classic shape of the Seven and what that dictates, there's nothing in there that wouldn't be sorted by as the man says "building it yourself in your garage" Oh well I presume Westfield will be taking notes and doing a better job on the build in the future.
I do agree though and I know I'm going to be absolutely slated for this. It's time to move on from the Seven. It's had it's day. Sure a mighty fine day but it is 2010 and almost 2011 now!
singlecoil said:
rhinochopig said:
singlecoil said:
I watched the video, and it was obvious that he didn't like it, but I felt most of his criticisms were bascially bks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
I think you're missing the point. It will be a nigh on 30k car when it's spec'd with the nice bits like big brakes, ARBs, lighter wheels, poly-bushed, Nitrons, etc. Westfield decided to send a car out for review, that has issues with the steering column and a badly spec'd or tuned engine. The public certainly won't get a better car than was tested, and I'd be furious if I had spent 25-30k on a car that then needed sorting in both the engine and handling department. At that money, they have no excuses for producing a car like that.ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket or two if it is going to resist deliberate tugging, the steering column is from a production car and would have been ok in its original car, but the height adjustment was inappropriate in the Westfield. But maybe they needed to use it in order to get the type approval.It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
It really isn't good enough.
rhinochopig said:
Your point seemed to be one of defending Westfield - easily fixable issues and seeking EU type approval. My point was I don't think they should be defended - not on a 25-30k car. The issues like power delivery and poor chassis set-up are unforgivable on a car at that price point, which puts them in direct competition with Caterham.
Caterham don't, AFAIK, publish their prices, so perhaps you can tell me which fully built Caterham is available at £25K, and we can do a bit of comparing. I am always happy to defend anybody, not just Westfield (for whom I don't have a lot of time normally) from attacks that I feel are ill considered and undeserved.
rhinochopig said:
singlecoil said:
I watched the video, and it was obvious that he didn't like it, but I felt most of his criticisms were bascially bks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre cons
ole obviously needed an extra bracket
or two if it is going to resist deliberate
tugging, the steering column is from a
production car and would have been
ok in its original car, but the height
adjustment was inappropriate in the
Westfield. But maybe they needed to
use it in order to get the type approval.
As a 'kit finisher' how can you say Velcro holding the interior together s a good method!?
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
I think you're missing the point. It will be a nigh on 30k car when it's spec'd with the nice bits like big brakes, ARBs, lighter wheels, poly-bushed, Nitrons, etc. Westfield decided to send a car out for review, that has issues with the steering column and a badly spec'd or tuned engine. The public certainly won't get a better car than was tested, and I'd be furious if I had spent 25-30k on a car that then needed sorting in both the engine and handling department. At that money, they have no excuses for producing a car like that.ks. The trim piece seemed well made and velcro is entirely adequate for items like that. The centre console obviously needed an extra bracket
or two if it is going to resist deliberate
tugging, the steering column is from a
production car and would have been
ok in its original car, but the height
adjustment was inappropriate in the
Westfield. But maybe they needed to
use it in order to get the type approval.
As a 'kit finisher' how can you say Velcro holding the interior together s a good method!?
It sounded as if the throttle linkage needed adjusting or re-doing. Fair comment but not really a big problem to sort out. Good reminder of why I don't watch motoring programs.
The fact that Westfield have made a car that can be sold all over Europe was mentioned but I think the significance of it escaped him.
It really isn't good enough.
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