eco cars

[stig mills]

Hi again, the peak current is limited by the controller set up . I would normally set this at 15hp which equates to around 230amps. Regards Stuart

[hoopdiddy07]

fuoriserie said:

another very rough sketch, showing a different design incorporating side protection rails....

Very nice Italo, I'm amazed that something like that isn't on the market now. I'd have one. It has a sporty image that all the equivilant efforts in the past have failed to portray.

[hoopdiddy07]

stig mills said:

Hi Davi, appreciate any help. Cells are the biggest draw back in terms of cost of course bu they are coming down. Agree that huge range is not essential provided the average commute not being over 20 miles. I wonder if I could make one fold and fit in the back of a people mover? Park n ride?
Motor for this project is 48v and we are looking for around 90 amp hour. We are assuming consumption of around 150 watt hours per mile. So I am looking to achieve a range of over 30.
For those interested in the calcs;
48 volts x 90 amp hours= a 4.3 kilowatt pack
Consumed at 150 per mile=29.
48 volt motor at 4hp =3000 watts
3000 watts divided by 48 volts=62 amps

How many packs would be needed to achieve this? and at what cost? Assuming total wieght with driver is 320kgs.

[fuoriserie]

hoopdiddy07 said:

fuoriserie said:

another very rough sketch, showing a different design incorporating side protection rails....

Very nice Italo, I'm amazed that something like that isn't on the market now. I'd have one. It has a sporty image that all the equivilant efforts in the past have failed to portray.

Thanks for your kind comment.........but it still think it would need a lot more development ,and the details would need to be worked out...especialy the front hinged canopy, and the motor and rear sunspension setup.

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 28th January 19:05

[Davi]

stig mills said:

Hi again, the peak current is limited by the controller set up . I would normally set this at 15hp which equates to around 230amps. Regards Stuart

OK, I've sent all the details off, he's not the fastest person in the world at replying but will let you know as soon as he does

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

hoopdiddy07 said:

fuoriserie said:

another very rough sketch, showing a different design incorporating side protection rails....

Very nice Italo, I'm amazed that something like that isn't on the market now. I'd have one. It has a sporty image that all the equivilant efforts in the past have failed to portray.

Thanks for your kind comment.........but it still think it would need a lot more development ,and the details would need to be worked out...especialy the front hinged canopy, and the motor and rear sunspension setup.

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 28th January 19:05

Personally I think your sketch answers most of the development questions in itself - it's rare I can see something just "working" from an initial sketch, but that does. I can see simple split points and easy moulding solutions for the main tub if it were a layup monocoque, it presents natural suspension pick up points - especially on the rear - which could easily utilise a developed scooter swing arm.

[hoopdiddy07]

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/econom...

[stig mills]

Number of packs depends on manufacturer, most are 3.2v at 20 or 30 ah.
45 of them will do it. Three sets of 15 in series. Probably 75kgs in total.

[hoopdiddy07]

stig mills said:

Number of packs depends on manufacturer, most are 3.2v at 20 or 30 ah.
45 of them will do it. Three sets of 15 in series. Probably 75kgs in total.

How much would these cost at the moment Stig?

[stig mills]

hoopdiddy07 said:

stig mills said:

Number of packs depends on manufacturer, most are 3.2v at 20 or 30 ah.
45 of them will do it. Three sets of 15 in series. Probably 75kgs in total.

How much would these cost at the moment Stig?

The packs alone are £1650 plus BMS and charger.

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

hoopdiddy07 said:

fuoriserie said:

another very rough sketch, showing a different design incorporating side protection rails....

Very nice Italo, I'm amazed that something like that isn't on the market now. I'd have one. It has a sporty image that all the equivilant efforts in the past have failed to portray.

Thanks for your kind comment.........but it still think it would need a lot more development ,and the details would need to be worked out...especialy the front hinged canopy, and the motor and rear sunspension setup.

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 28th January 19:05

Personally I think your sketch answers most of the development questions in itself - it's rare I can see something just "working" from an initial sketch, but that does. I can see simple split points and easy moulding solutions for the main tub if it were a layup monocoque, it presents natural suspension pick up points - especially on the rear - which could easily utilise a developed scooter swing arm.

Thanks Del......but this is hoopdiddy07 design project, I just had some fun trying to work on his design brief.
I would like to see it progress, but I don't think it will develop further than these few rough sketches...

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 29th January 19:45

[Davi]

fuoriserie said:

Thanks Del......but this is hoopdiddy07 design project, I just had some fun trying to work on his design brief.
I would like to see it progress, but I don't think it will develop further than these few rough sketches...

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 29th January 19:45

I wouldn't go placing any money on that one personally...

[hoopdiddy07]

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

Thanks Del......but this is hoopdiddy07 design project, I just had some fun trying to work on his design brief.
I would like to see it progress, but I don't think it will develop further than these few rough sketches...

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 29th January 19:45

I wouldn't go placing any money on that one personally...

Davi is right, there is a definate need and market for a vehicle like this. Between us, over the coming months we can discuss how best to fill this niche. My attempts were radically different from yours and I suppose that's a good thing. Before we consider final aesthetics, we need to be sure that such a vehicle is viable. The cost of the cells alone is less than I expected. I suppose that the sensible thing to do next is to establish all costs accuratley and then see if we can add enough value. I honestly believe that a vehicle that ticks all the boxes mentioned on the previous pages can retail at 12,000GBP. I still think that this can be done at a profit. I can provide estimates on the cnc machining of master body components and the production cost of composite bodywork. This will include a basic backbone chassis in steel that will simplify suspension mounting and battery pack support. Stig and Davi can provide further insight into battery costs and the likley costs of motors and controlers. I have divised a means of steering that eliminates the need for a rack. The only chassis design issue that still bugs me is the front suspension. I initially planned to use a composite cart spring to save weight, but there must be a cheaper way to suspend the fornt end. Citroen 2cv trailing arm? Any ideas? Remember that top speed is 50-55mph and that it's a commuter vehicle not a sports car.

[Davi]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but a bit of inspiration if nothing else...

http://www.sub3wheeler.com/index.php

[stig mills]

Davi, thanx for that, it kind of reminds me of a side car without the bike!
Hoop, Smart cars had a trnsverse front leaf spring, trailers have rubber bushes.
Motor and controller will be around £1100.

[fuoriserie]

something crazy.......but love the idea.......it could inspire me a new sketch...

http://www.trirodmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/photo...

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 30th January 13:12

[FlossyThePig]

fuoriserie said:

something crazy.......but love the idea, and nothing to do with electric, but could inspire me a new sketch..

http://www.trirodmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/photo...

Have you seen the position of the drive belts? If you're not careful it'll have both your feet and maybe even legs.

Interesting idea though!

[fuoriserie]

FlossyThePig said:

fuoriserie said:

something crazy.......but love the idea, and nothing to do with electric, but could inspire me a new sketch..

http://www.trirodmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/photo...

Have you seen the position of the drive belts? If you're not careful it'll have both your feet and maybe even legs.

quote]

I would call that living on the edge....

[fuoriserie]

hoopdiddy07 said:

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

Thanks Del......but this is hoopdiddy07 design project, I just had some fun trying to work on his design brief.
I would like to see it progress, but I don't think it will develop further than these few rough sketches...

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 29th January 19:45

I wouldn't go placing any money on that one personally...

Davi is right, there is a definate need and market for a vehicle like this. Between us, over the coming months we can discuss how best to fill this niche. My attempts were radically different from yours and I suppose that's a good thing. Before we consider final aesthetics, we need to be sure that such a vehicle is viable. The cost of the cells alone is less than I expected. I suppose that the sensible thing to do next is to establish all costs accuratley and then see if we can add enough value. I honestly believe that a vehicle that ticks all the boxes mentioned on the previous pages can retail at 12,000GBP. I still think that this can be done at a profit. I can provide estimates on the cnc machining of master body components and the production cost of composite bodywork. This will include a basic backbone chassis in steel that will simplify suspension mounting and battery pack support. Stig and Davi can provide further insight into battery costs and the likley costs of motors and controlers. I have divised a means of steering that eliminates the need for a rack. The only chassis design issue that still bugs me is the front suspension. I initially planned to use a composite cart spring to save weight, but there must be a cheaper way to suspend the fornt end. Citroen 2cv trailing arm? Any ideas? Remember that top speed is 50-55mph and that it's a commuter vehicle not a sports car.

hoopdiddy07,

I'm all for it, and agree with you that there is a definite need, and a niche market waiting for a similar product.
As you say, the coming months will be needed to see if such a vehicle is viable.

Are you considering a basculating front suspension system, as is with the Piaggio mp3, or considering a simpler solution ?

Quite a few new manufacturers are considering the basculating system, and could be the norm in the very near future, 2010 ?

Piaggio is selling Mp3 like hot cakes, they can't build enough at the moment, there is a waiting list for them.

he Mp3 is not in the same niche, but it could get there when their hybrid system comes into production in 2009.

Rumours in Italy are that Yamaha and Honda, will have similar products by 2009! Economies of scale could make their products very competitive, and I think that we should be considering two different products, a full electric and a Hybrid scooter engine option.

You could consider a very simple electric 3wheeler, like the E-GO, basic and simple with a sexy design, and then an alternative with a scooter hybrid engine, for the guys that still have petrol in their veins, but would like to be PC !

You would be tapping into two different, but overlapping niches.......

Just something to consider and think about

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

Thanks Del......but this is hoopdiddy07 design project, I just had some fun trying to work on his design brief.
I would like to see it progress, but I don't think it will develop further than these few rough sketches...

Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 29th January 19:45

I wouldn't go placing any money on that one personally...

Ok....I won't be betting for awhile then.......