KIT DESIGN CONTEST- REBODY AN MX5 OR MR2
Discussion
[quote=g32turbo I can see no logical reason for spending money turning a good looking sportscar into an equally good looking sportscar unless on the grounds of individuality. However if its individuality you'd sell your designs on then the market would be severely limited as the more kits you sell, the less exclusive they become.
[/quote]
Fair enough, and I agree with you on the above comment, that was discussed at length in past threads, ( read Kitcar Outlook or the Crisis threads) .
read :
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=5&f=30&t=177552&h=0
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=7&f=30&t=180769&h=0
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=3&f=30&t=257644&h=0
The problem is that if the Kitcar industry wants to evolve and expand, it needs to cater to a younger crowd, that is a little less skilled or has less time in building from the ground up a regular kitcar.
By using an existing platform, and modyfing the shape with a new body, maybe you could have the interest of mr2 owners who would like something more individual than, just continue adding on spolers, wings and scoops.
This would be a new body shape on the same car.
It's just an idea that quite a few manufacturers have started pursuing, but I'm sure it won't be the only one.
Just a way to get in and potentially expand the existing kitcar niche, going through a restructuring process.
This is just one of various ideas we have been discussing of late, and the coupe seven was discussed in past threads( see Kitcar design), maybe a mini Ultima wasn't considered.
You could create an original and interesting coupe out of a Mx5, maybe looking like a Jaguar F-type ?
[/quote]
Fair enough, and I agree with you on the above comment, that was discussed at length in past threads, ( read Kitcar Outlook or the Crisis threads) .
read :
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=5&f=30&t=177552&h=0
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=7&f=30&t=180769&h=0
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=3&f=30&t=257644&h=0
The problem is that if the Kitcar industry wants to evolve and expand, it needs to cater to a younger crowd, that is a little less skilled or has less time in building from the ground up a regular kitcar.
By using an existing platform, and modyfing the shape with a new body, maybe you could have the interest of mr2 owners who would like something more individual than, just continue adding on spolers, wings and scoops.
This would be a new body shape on the same car.
It's just an idea that quite a few manufacturers have started pursuing, but I'm sure it won't be the only one.
Just a way to get in and potentially expand the existing kitcar niche, going through a restructuring process.
This is just one of various ideas we have been discussing of late, and the coupe seven was discussed in past threads( see Kitcar design), maybe a mini Ultima wasn't considered.
You could create an original and interesting coupe out of a Mx5, maybe looking like a Jaguar F-type ?
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 20th July 15:20
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 20th July 15:21
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 20th July 15:24
g32turbo said:
But why would a kitcar builder want to create a sportscar from a ....... sportscar?
Good point - I mean why would you want underpinnings that have had millions spent on their development, extreme hot/cold climate testing and had reliability and performance proven over a period of over 15 years plus a huge add on/upgrade aftermarket parts and servicing industry to......er, say.......oh I don't know, maybe a collection of different suspension parts thrown together in a small factory unit somewhere where the end purchasers will be unwittingly providing their services as testers/developers over the ensuing years of manufacture?!
g32turbo said:
I can see no logical reason for spending money turning a good looking sportscar into an equally good looking sportscar unless on the grounds of individuality.
Come on, even when it was current, the MR2 was no beauty queen - interesting granted but by no means an attractive car. The designs put forward are far more 'beautiful' than the base car IMHO.
g32turbo said:
However if its individuality you'd sell your designs on then the market would be severely limited as the more kits you sell, the less exclusive they become.
Good point - has anyone told Noble, Ultima, Ruff hell Lambo or even Ferrari that they should be out of business by now, LOL!
g32turbo said:
If you really want to exploit a niche in the kitcar market try designing a coupe body to fit an existing 7 inspired chassis. A miniature Ultima perhaps.
Yes, I believe it's called an Exige
Of course I'm being very tongue in cheek above but I must admit to not being able to follow your thinking at all on this one. Rebodying is just the kitcar industry coming full circle from the boom in the 70's where you had choice from loads of different whacky (wobbly!) bodyshells as long as they were mated to a veedub floorpan. The most likely reason for this 'homecoming' I suspect is SVA and it's potential avoidance through rebodying. To build an authentic cobra now takes pretty much 2 completely separate builds, one for SVA then the post SVA rebuild to reinstate all those lovely non compound radius parts, dangerous spinners etc. etc.! MR2's are cheap plentiful, but still agile and tunable in turbo guise by todays standards - why not ditch the dated clothes and have something altogether more exciting?
You don't throw the bed out just because you've still got chintz covers on it!
keep up the designs!!
Love the half louvre rear btw Edited by smash on Thursday 20th July 17:16
smash said:
g32turbo said:
However if its individuality you'd sell your designs on then the market would be severely limited as the more kits you sell, the less exclusive they become.
Good point - has anyone told Noble, Ultima, Ruff hell Lambo or even Ferrari that they should be out of business by now, LOL!
Agreed, but the likes of those you mention can charge big bucks for small volumes so exclusivity is maintained. How many people are going to pay really big bucks for an MX5 body kit? Very few I suspect so it needs to be big volumes for small bucks and exclusivity is gone.
I'm not decrying this idea at all, just playing devils advocate to stimulate a more balanced debate.
Go on, show me a design that looks a little bit Ultima on an MR2. OK so the lack of wrap around screen and cockpit size will be wrong but wide arches and door skins could create an acceptable illusion.
smash said:
mostly MR2 *ahem*
You need say *Ahem*. Exactly which bit (apart from a couple of mechanical bits) is MR2. That's no more an MR2 with a body kit than a Ginetta G20 or Westfield is a Sierra with a body kit.
Love the shape and its exactly what I was looking for but its not a body kit. Fouriserie's quiet .... must be working on a new design .... good man!
BTW I love the retro MX5 kit
Now this thread could be really interesting Miata Cobra. Some people seem to ridicule this because its trying to be a Cobra. Lose the Viper stripes and the chrome bumper, remove all reference to a Cobra and it could be a winner.
A winner? Only to the myopic. Proportions are all over the place - how small are the wheels, the grille looks like a grannie pursing her lips for a big smacker, no, no, NO, it's wrong in so many ways. The MX5 is a good looking car to start with, that thing is like an MX5 went through the matter transporter in "The Fly" just as the elephant man stepped in the other end. Hideous.
I didn't like it.
I didn't like it.
[quote=smashOf course I'm being very tongue in cheek above but I must admit to not being able to follow your thinking at all on this one. Rebodying is just the kitcar industry coming full circle from the boom in the 70's where you had choice from loads of different whacky (wobbly!) bodyshells as long as they were mated to a veedub floorpan. The most likely reason for this 'homecoming' I suspect is SVA and it's potential avoidance through rebodying. To build an authentic cobra now takes pretty much 2 completely separate builds, one for SVA then the post SVA rebuild to reinstate all those lovely non compound radius parts, dangerous spinners etc. etc.! MR2's are cheap plentiful, but still agile and tunable in turbo guise by todays standards - why not ditch the dated clothes and have something altogether more exciting?
You don't throw the bed out just because you've still got chintz covers on it!
keep up the designs!! Love the half louvre rear btw
Thanks for your comments..
Ok...I will show more rough sketches, but I thought there was going to be a little more interest on this subject, and as you pointed out the industry as whole is coming full circle.
Big name design studios have come around once more as in the 60's, to bespoke or custom made one-off cars, Just look at the latest Zagatos. for Aston Martin and the new 575 GTZ with a Ferrari 575 chassis platform.
Bertone did a one-off, the Aston Martin Jet over a Vanquish platform.
Pininfarina has rebodied the ENZO with the new Ferrari P4/5.
check for images :
www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=2830
Zagato is adamant to follow this route because he says, that limited production manufacturing cost are so high that it's not cost effective for small sportscar manufacturing companies. Impending legislation from the European Union and so forth will stiffle small outfits, so bespoke is the only way for design studios that still have small manufacturing facilities.
From now on ,they will be developing more bespoke cars over existing platforms, and expect to see more one-off's over Maserati. Alfa Romeo. Aston Martin, Ferrari and other exotic platforms. with a new and unique body made for rich customers worlwide.
The kitcar industry could well serve the same niche, at the lower end of the market as it has for the last 50 years, and now it's time to change again perspective.......
Why can't we rebody an Mr2 for the cash strapped masses? we can use modern and tested technology with a more unique design, without the price tag of Pininfarina !!
Just give me a few more ideas, and I will try to sketch them over the Mr2 an Mx5 platform........who knows, maybe someone is eccentric enough to have a bespoke new suit made just for them
You don't throw the bed out just because you've still got chintz covers on it!
keep up the designs!!
Love the half louvre rear btw Edited by smash on Thursday 20th July 17:16
[/quote] Thanks for your comments..
Ok...I will show more rough sketches, but I thought there was going to be a little more interest on this subject, and as you pointed out the industry as whole is coming full circle.
Big name design studios have come around once more as in the 60's, to bespoke or custom made one-off cars, Just look at the latest Zagatos. for Aston Martin and the new 575 GTZ with a Ferrari 575 chassis platform.
Bertone did a one-off, the Aston Martin Jet over a Vanquish platform.
Pininfarina has rebodied the ENZO with the new Ferrari P4/5.
check for images :
www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=2830
Zagato is adamant to follow this route because he says, that limited production manufacturing cost are so high that it's not cost effective for small sportscar manufacturing companies. Impending legislation from the European Union and so forth will stiffle small outfits, so bespoke is the only way for design studios that still have small manufacturing facilities.
From now on ,they will be developing more bespoke cars over existing platforms, and expect to see more one-off's over Maserati. Alfa Romeo. Aston Martin, Ferrari and other exotic platforms. with a new and unique body made for rich customers worlwide.
The kitcar industry could well serve the same niche, at the lower end of the market as it has for the last 50 years, and now it's time to change again perspective.......
Why can't we rebody an Mr2 for the cash strapped masses? we can use modern and tested technology with a more unique design, without the price tag of Pininfarina !!
Just give me a few more ideas, and I will try to sketch them over the Mr2 an Mx5 platform........who knows, maybe someone is eccentric enough to have a bespoke new suit made just for them
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 21st July 09:14
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 21st July 09:16
OK - well G32Turbo suggested something GT track style in the Ultima vein (can you make a flat windscreen look more curved through optical illusion?) Maybe something more 60's GT like a Chevron?
Personally would love to see something a bit Pantera Junior-ish, you know shallow nose and big arse!! Maybe something a bit Murci Junior-ish as well. We know from the 355 replicas that you can successfully get some extra girth on the back end of the MR2 so that might be fun to play with?
Personally would love to see something a bit Pantera Junior-ish, you know shallow nose and big arse!! Maybe something a bit Murci Junior-ish as well. We know from the 355 replicas that you can successfully get some extra girth on the back end of the MR2 so that might be fun to play with?
smash said:
OK - well G32Turbo suggested something GT track style in the Ultima vein (can you make a flat windscreen look more curved through optical illusion?) Maybe something more 60's GT like a Chevron?
Personally would love to see something a bit Pantera Junior-ish, you know shallow nose and big arse!! Maybe something a bit Murci Junior-ish as well. We know from the 355 replicas that you can successfully get some extra girth on the back end of the MR2 so that might be fun to play with?
Personally would love to see something a bit Pantera Junior-ish, you know shallow nose and big arse!! Maybe something a bit Murci Junior-ish as well. We know from the 355 replicas that you can successfully get some extra girth on the back end of the MR2 so that might be fun to play with?
Yes I like the Pantera idea a lot, and what about the Mangusta? , for the Murcielago you would have the windscreen not being as cab-forward and not as raked.
The same problem with the Ultima, not as curved, so we have to stick with existing hard points as winscreen rake and curvature.
Will sketch some fast roughs and see what you all think......
fuoriserie said:
really really rough sketch , but thought about 70ìs supercars.......
Well though that looks bloody fantastic Italo I don't think you could make it by simply adding a bodykit to an MR2 or MX5, which was the point of my 'challenge'. Which incidentally I see you're the only person to take up.
The body kit approach generally means adding rather than subracting. As smash says, the F355 kits show how you can easily increase the width of an MR2, but reducing overhangs can be a no-no due to structural chassis members.
For your information, I can tell you that there's one such at the front of an MR2, plus there's at least upper level stiffening at the back. On the other hand, Toyota designed to car so they could make it as a convertible (only sold in Japan I think) so you can cut the roof off without the body going floppy.
Think the most realistic approach is that used by the F355 fakes - use the standard mountings for wings, bonnet and nose at the front plus the engine cover and boot at the back and bond over-panels to the doors and rear wings and tail.
Similar appraoch is used on Fiero based kits like the Finale and Belaro, which even use standard mountings for door skins and rear wings as the Fiero's plastic panels are all bolted on.
Admittedly this approach limits what you can do a bit as windscreen rake and overall proportions etc are all fixed, but it would make manufacture a realistic proposition.
Following on from what Mr Bell's saying, what about the possibility of using part of an exisiting body conversion e.g. say the Extreme 355 front with different door skins and compeletely different rear end treatment? A sort of hybrid replica!
Edited by smash on Saturday 22 July 22:28
I dont have anything important to add - I just want to say to fuoriserie that almost all of his designs shown on Pistonheads over the last few months/years have been great. It's slightly upsetting to think that none of them will come to fruition.
I really like the idea of something slightly mid-engined+70's looking. Mangusta and Stratos' are awesome looking cars.
Despite me being quite conservative, and liking their looks for the most part originally I'd see no shame in driving a rebodied MR2/Mx5 if it looked right (and if i could fit in okay!).
Cheers, Greg.
I really like the idea of something slightly mid-engined+70's looking. Mangusta and Stratos' are awesome looking cars.
Despite me being quite conservative, and liking their looks for the most part originally I'd see no shame in driving a rebodied MR2/Mx5 if it looked right (and if i could fit in okay!).
Cheers, Greg.
grahambell said:
[quote=fuoriserie]really
The body kit approach generally means adding rather than subracting. As smash says, the F355 kits show how you can easily increase the width of an MR2, but reducing overhangs can be a no-no due to structural chassis members.
For your information, I can tell you that there's one such at the front of an MR2, plus there's at least upper level stiffening at the back. On the other hand, Toyota designed to car so they could make it as a convertible (only sold in Japan I think) so you can cut the roof off without the body going floppy.
Think the most realistic approach is that used by the F355 fakes - use the standard mountings for wings, bonnet and nose at the front plus the engine cover and boot at the back and bond over-panels to the doors and rear wings and tail.
Similar appraoch is used on Fiero based kits like the Finale and Belaro, which even use standard mountings for door skins and rear wings as the Fiero's plastic panels are all bolted on.
Admittedly this approach limits what you can do a bit as windscreen rake and overall proportions etc are all fixed, but it would make manufacture a realistic proposition.
The body kit approach generally means adding rather than subracting. As smash says, the F355 kits show how you can easily increase the width of an MR2, but reducing overhangs can be a no-no due to structural chassis members.
For your information, I can tell you that there's one such at the front of an MR2, plus there's at least upper level stiffening at the back. On the other hand, Toyota designed to car so they could make it as a convertible (only sold in Japan I think) so you can cut the roof off without the body going floppy.
Think the most realistic approach is that used by the F355 fakes - use the standard mountings for wings, bonnet and nose at the front plus the engine cover and boot at the back and bond over-panels to the doors and rear wings and tail.
Similar appraoch is used on Fiero based kits like the Finale and Belaro, which even use standard mountings for door skins and rear wings as the Fiero's plastic panels are all bolted on.
Admittedly this approach limits what you can do a bit as windscreen rake and overall proportions etc are all fixed, but it would make manufacture a realistic proposition.
I agree with your comments, and this brought to the conclusion that i will split the various designs concepts.
For shorter overhangs I will use the Mk.3 chassis of the mr2, and with those proportions it should be easier to design a modern interpretation of the Mangusta. Maybe a little more expensive, but a mini Mangusta inspired design should be worth it.
With the older Mk.2. you could design a roadster like the Veranti or a ferrari Dino inspired design, I will see what sketches I can come up with...
I was hoping to see the other guys sketches up on this thread, contacted a few to participate, but.......no reply
Maybe not interesting enough, or maybe will join in later, who knows, but I believe this idea has a lot of potential for the kit industry, so will continue with more sketches.....
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