Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales
Discussion
MG CHRIS said:
If you look at the sales of the exocet in just 2 years on the market it has sold around 300 kits...
Is that right!!! They sold three hundred, that's not a typo and you meant thirty????As you said, it's hardly pretty. It certainly isn't practical, possibly even less than a Seven type or something from the Sylva lineup.
Seriously, if three hundred kits of just one car can be sold in just two years then what is their secret? Am I just blind to the latest fashion?
How many kits do more traditional stuff like the (very, very pretty) Sylva J15 sell?
kennyrayandersen said:
First, your project sounds interesting and kudos for trying. I think you bring up some valid points about quality, and posing etc. But it’s well understood that nearly without exception quality costs, so there is always a balancing act between delivering quality, but doing it within a price structure that will allow the customer to drop the hammer on the deal. I’d love a GT 40 for instance, or even an Ultima, but have a hard time justifying dropping an arm, and leg AND a left testicle for one. Because, at the point you are at that cost, you might as well get the original (as you’ve previously pointed out).
I think this is really what makes a 7 so attractive. A manufacturer can deliver loads of performance for decent money, which makes the overall package attractive. And, it’s frankly why they will ALWAYS be a bit popular despite how bored some are with them. Also, for us Yanks, we aren’t THAT tired of them yet. Our problem has always been that there were not so many donors as y’all; so, the 7 deal, is pretty much in its infancy over here.
I will say though, that if your vehicle isn’t visually [very] appealing it will struggle.
I’m glad you brought this up, you are absolutely correct; it is a balancing act between quality and costs. I’d like to try to simplify the problem. Lamborghini’s, Ferraris, Porsche’s, Lotus’s, Zonda’s etc.etc.etc… all look great because they have the financial backing to develop every detail of their cars. A team of engineers will spend weeks, using expensive computer programs to just design a tail light, which will be produced by a company using expensive plastic injected moulding machines; which is fine, but the end result is a sports car/supercar costing £100,000’s way out of the budget of your “average Joe”I think this is really what makes a 7 so attractive. A manufacturer can deliver loads of performance for decent money, which makes the overall package attractive. And, it’s frankly why they will ALWAYS be a bit popular despite how bored some are with them. Also, for us Yanks, we aren’t THAT tired of them yet. Our problem has always been that there were not so many donors as y’all; so, the 7 deal, is pretty much in its infancy over here.
I will say though, that if your vehicle isn’t visually [very] appealing it will struggle.
A kitcar can’t not be developed in the same way, windscreens, headlights, taillights, door rubbers, trim….the list goes on, must be source from the donor vehicle. These parts ultimately determine the final shape and proportions of the final car, unfortunately usually with poor results.
This is not to say a kitcar can’t be designed to the same level of detail as the factory thorough breads, I believe it can, but it takes ingenuity and a lot of research to try and be resourceful enough to come up with a happy compromise which is both aesthetically pleasing and cost effective.
It’s this lack of understanding of the processes needed to create such a great car that is the problem; Most people lack imagination and the ability to look past a flashy paint job, that’s why most kitcar companies don’t bother. So that’s why you’ve got the cheap basic track day cars, for around the £10-£15K and then the Ultima’s and quality replicas for £50K. We need something in the middle of this price bracket, which isn’t a rebodied, chopped up old Japanese sports car.
MG CHRIS said:
Sorry if this sounds a bit thick and not really paying any attention to lemans is the delta wing actualy a modified caterham/westfield kit car is so then thats really intresting.
One of the previous post said about coming away from fakes and track day kits well look at the market and generaly that whats sell mev/road track and race sell a huge amount of kits mainly exo looks cars and most are used for track days and or the cheap build of the exocet of one im building. Fakes sell because people what to drive something that looks like there dream car be it at a stratos/ gt40/ cobra build or mr2 with lamb or ferrari look body panels.
Production quality kits don't sell because one to expensive case in point the murtaya is best part of 30k for a subaru with a coupe body in there abouts way. Why would you do that when you can spend a tenth of that and can have a highly tunned scooby and the same if you look at 2nd hand cars you can get a ferrari 355 for the price of one. Two the trim and quality is not the same as a production car and three the idea of a kit car is something cheap to build and mainly used for weekend use and track days.
If you look at the sals of the exocet in just 2 years on the market it has sold around 300 kits sold to several countries that is what people want a cheap, simply design with a great donor and to have some fun with it when finished. It's not the most pretty of designs but i don't think any of the exo style cars even the atom are good looking cars but it is not meant to be pretty just a fun toy for the weekend a fun build and meet like minded people who have problems and overcome them and to share them.
I truly believe mev/rtr have the best models on sale out of any other kit car company and i like many others will keep on buying from them and having fun and who cares what joe public think what kit cars are when we have a great choice of cars out there and a great community of experience people and the youngsters who will take that over in the future what more to people want production car quality kit cars for half the price of one well that is never going to happen.
You make many valid points, and I do agree with most of them; however I do believe you may have made the usual mistake of labelling a Lancia Stratos and GT40 replicas the same as a MR2 rebodied Ferrari, and I think you may have offended quite a few GT40 owners in doing so; I put it to you this way, I would like to ask a GT40 or Lancia Stratos Builder and ask if he would like his car to be compared to a MR2/Peugeot rebodied Ferrari/Lamborghini?One of the previous post said about coming away from fakes and track day kits well look at the market and generaly that whats sell mev/road track and race sell a huge amount of kits mainly exo looks cars and most are used for track days and or the cheap build of the exocet of one im building. Fakes sell because people what to drive something that looks like there dream car be it at a stratos/ gt40/ cobra build or mr2 with lamb or ferrari look body panels.
Production quality kits don't sell because one to expensive case in point the murtaya is best part of 30k for a subaru with a coupe body in there abouts way. Why would you do that when you can spend a tenth of that and can have a highly tunned scooby and the same if you look at 2nd hand cars you can get a ferrari 355 for the price of one. Two the trim and quality is not the same as a production car and three the idea of a kit car is something cheap to build and mainly used for weekend use and track days.
If you look at the sals of the exocet in just 2 years on the market it has sold around 300 kits sold to several countries that is what people want a cheap, simply design with a great donor and to have some fun with it when finished. It's not the most pretty of designs but i don't think any of the exo style cars even the atom are good looking cars but it is not meant to be pretty just a fun toy for the weekend a fun build and meet like minded people who have problems and overcome them and to share them.
I truly believe mev/rtr have the best models on sale out of any other kit car company and i like many others will keep on buying from them and having fun and who cares what joe public think what kit cars are when we have a great choice of cars out there and a great community of experience people and the youngsters who will take that over in the future what more to people want production car quality kit cars for half the price of one well that is never going to happen.
Like I have mentioned before, we need to distinguish between quality Replica’s such as the GT40, Lancia Stratos, some AC Cobra’s, Ferrari P4’s etc.etc… and a rebodied Peugeot coupe, disguised to look similar to a Ferrari.
I think that track day cars sell, because there’s nothing else on the market to buy. There isn’t a single original design that isn’t focused for the track, I also believe there’s a reason for this and it’s not so much because this is what people want, because clearly, after reading through this thread it isn’t, but there are so many track day cars to choose from because they are easy to develop, so there’s little else to buy. Yes, having no roof, doors, side glass, trim, minimal body panels, makes the car faster, with such a small engine, but I’ll bet a pound to a penny, your missus would not want to travel to the south of France in one!
I also think you’ve pointed out a second issues, and that is Track day cars ARE fun, they are nothing more than a big boys toys. Now I am not, for one second, saying there’s anything wrong with this, because there isn’t; I would, without question have one of these in my imaginary 10 car garage; for a blast around a track, it can’t be beaten (Oh no, probably get someone on my case saying his R1 is better) but you get my point; however these track day cars now fail when it rains, or you and your missus want a weekend break, or if you want to attend a swanky evening dinner and want to make an entrance.
I do think we need to distinguish the different types of kitcar to better understand the OP’s question. Just as the car world have its different categories. Labelling everything Kitcar is probably confusing the general public. Perhaps Replica’s should be for the quality GT40’s, Cobra’s, and Lancia Stratos. Maybe a component car is a better term for the Ultima’s, Gardner Douglas, and the like. Instead of Fake, maybe forged for the Ferrari MR2’s, and Track-kit for the track day stuff…. I don’t know, just thinking out loud here. What do you think?
Oh, and the reason why it matters what “Joe public” think is this; This is where future customers/enthusiast/friends will come from. If we can all make the kitcar world look more interesting, more people will get involved, which is better for everyone in the long run.
Are there any GT40 builders out there, reading this thread, what’s your view on rebodies? I’d love to know.
Tony427 said:
As someone who is nailing their third fake plastic s
t box (FPSB) together the appeal of a kit car is almost 100% imbued in its shape.
I love the Cobra, not because of its Ferrari beating history, not because of its american muscle, not because a real one is worth millions, I love it because of the way it looks, in particular its "hips".
I know it sounds a bit perverse, but the whole car just looks " right".
Its the perfect shape for a sportscar.
Then you can add in all the stuff that turns money into sound which is what all us boys love and it becomes the stuff of dreams.
True some guys get a bit "precious" about the iconic nature of the car, and others like myself go beyond the envelope of conformity ( EFI, Jap and European engines, 35 MPG for Gods sake) but the first thing that must bring owners to the car in the first place is the shape.
Get the shape right and people will buy.
Now getting the next right shape is the $60,000 question.
Cheers,
Tony
Exactly. . . . Everything he said.t box (FPSB) together the appeal of a kit car is almost 100% imbued in its shape. I love the Cobra, not because of its Ferrari beating history, not because of its american muscle, not because a real one is worth millions, I love it because of the way it looks, in particular its "hips".
I know it sounds a bit perverse, but the whole car just looks " right".
Its the perfect shape for a sportscar.
Then you can add in all the stuff that turns money into sound which is what all us boys love and it becomes the stuff of dreams.
True some guys get a bit "precious" about the iconic nature of the car, and others like myself go beyond the envelope of conformity ( EFI, Jap and European engines, 35 MPG for Gods sake) but the first thing that must bring owners to the car in the first place is the shape.
Get the shape right and people will buy.
Now getting the next right shape is the $60,000 question.
Cheers,
Tony
As I interrupted the thread with a few days ago, TVR got the styling right IMHO, on all their models, almost from the beginning, so would it not be good to use the suppliers they had for the glass lights etc?? Then a quality chassis, that can handle the power we need, as someone suggested Gardner Douglas with the Cobra replica, then the TVR body, fabricated to fit, that way all the components are tried and tested, so keeping the costs down??
Or am I missing something??
Dreamspeed said:
Oh, and the reason why it matters what “Joe public” think is this; This is where future customers/enthusiast/friends will come from. If we can all make the kitcar world look more interesting, more people will get involved, which is better for everyone in the long run.
All read this! Now read it again! “Joe public” could be very important to the kitcar industry.
1point7bar said:
Backward engineering a TVR favourite is a very good approach.
Maybe Smolensky has gifted the home builder with his commercial pragmatism.
Perhaps call it a TREV or something legally different enough.
Devising an acronym to retain something of the flavour of the old TVR legend is undoubtedly possible whilst avoiding infringement as 1point7bar suggests,.Maybe Smolensky has gifted the home builder with his commercial pragmatism.
Perhaps call it a TREV or something legally different enough.
I would suggest a quick look at the Birkin case :
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/1998/44.html
which is the clear leading case. For those interested. It has been done.
Indeed this case demonstrated how difficult successful copyright infringement actions are at all on cars. The original passing off action on cars was the Panhard et Levassor SA v Panhard Levassor Motor Co Ltd case in the very early days of motoring which set out the ground rules.
I do not think passing off is really a difficulty in modern car manufacturing, unless you literally deliberately copy the logo and name. It is a commonly held view that all cars have tended towards a similar shape and layout. Very difficult to copyright such a widely perceived set of common values.
The really tricky bit is getting the body shape right and then being able to translate that shape into a buildable reality that can be assembled by enthusiasts AND put on the road at reasonable costs. Now, that I can see a problem with, sadly.
The TVR was by no means a cheap car in its heydays and latterly became an expensive proposition. Any design based on the bigger Rover/Buick engines which are now up to 4.9 litres I believe will require a seriously good chassis and suspension. Not to mention brakes.
I an personally doubtful whether in fact this could be done at a price much below the Noble end of the market for specialist cars. The accountant in me recognises the inevitable costs ensure that, the successful dynamics and power handling of such a car will require considerable outlay in build costs.
I doubt there would be the demand. To my mind affordability is the critical factor with Kit Cars currently. TVR went broke because the market folded up around them. Specialist sports car manufacture is a very difficult line of business and one littered with failed attempts.
The heyday of kit cats must surely be when the Robin Hoods, Pilgrim, Locusts. Lowcosts, Burlington, Moss, NG and Ron Champion inspired designs were being fettled by enthusiasts.
It is more than coincidence that Ford Escorts and Sierras were the most common donor cars in the boom period of Kit Car building and the mini and metro drive trains closely followed as power sources.
Whilst I admire the interest and enthusiasm for a more powerful alternative I think the V8 models, much as I personally love and collect them, cannot be a successful basis for a reasonably drivable vehicle a a reasonably accessible price.
S2Mike said:
Exactly. . . . Everything he said.
As I interrupted the thread with a few days ago, TVR got the styling right IMHO, on all their models, almost from the beginning, so would it not be good to use the suppliers they had for the glass lights etc?? Then a quality chassis, that can handle the power we need, as someone suggested Gardner Douglas with the Cobra replica, then the TVR body, fabricated to fit, that way all the components are tried and tested, so keeping the costs down??
Or am I missing something??
Ditto - since the demise of TVR surely its not that difficult to take a good, strong cobra chassis that will take a V8 and drop a cerb or sagaris body onto it? Get the original factory trimmers to do the interiors and you are there? No? Am I missing something?As I interrupted the thread with a few days ago, TVR got the styling right IMHO, on all their models, almost from the beginning, so would it not be good to use the suppliers they had for the glass lights etc?? Then a quality chassis, that can handle the power we need, as someone suggested Gardner Douglas with the Cobra replica, then the TVR body, fabricated to fit, that way all the components are tried and tested, so keeping the costs down??
Or am I missing something??
IIRC car designs are out of copyright after 5 years, so surely you can just copy the panels?
S2Mike said:
Exactly. . . . Everything he said.
As I interrupted the thread with a few days ago, TVR got the styling right IMHO, on all their models, almost from the beginning, so would it not be good to use the suppliers they had for the glass lights etc?? Then a quality chassis, that can handle the power we need, as someone suggested Gardner Douglas with the Cobra replica, then the TVR body, fabricated to fit, that way all the components are tried and tested, so keeping the costs down??
Or am I missing something??
As far as the lights go, the recent TVRs were mostly standard round lights, you could probably get similar or more up to date LED types from SVC or CBS, Griffith rears were upside down Cavalier lights, Chimaera/Cerbera used Fiesta lights under smoked covers. The smoked covers are similar things to the Murtaya headlights or the Elise style ones on the MEV X5. The interior parts would probably be more of a problem, with the custom metal switches and custom instrument panels.As I interrupted the thread with a few days ago, TVR got the styling right IMHO, on all their models, almost from the beginning, so would it not be good to use the suppliers they had for the glass lights etc?? Then a quality chassis, that can handle the power we need, as someone suggested Gardner Douglas with the Cobra replica, then the TVR body, fabricated to fit, that way all the components are tried and tested, so keeping the costs down??
Or am I missing something??
Sebring over towards Cambridge are currently putting together Healey type replicas, to a very high quality, from what I have seen, with engine sizes not too dissimilar, maybe they could be persuaded to fabricate the chassis they use to suit a TVR body. The prices for ex-factory built cars are around the £25-£35k, as can be seen on their website and CarandClassic I think.
If anyone from there is on here maybe a voice from within the industry could help, or of course point out the pitfalls.
I know I view the idea through rose-tinted glasses, I want TVR to still build cars for us to use, see and hear!!!
If you take a look at the various TVR threads on PH, we are passionate about the marque! Even living with the problems/ whoops opportunities to improve.
If anyone from there is on here maybe a voice from within the industry could help, or of course point out the pitfalls.
I know I view the idea through rose-tinted glasses, I want TVR to still build cars for us to use, see and hear!!!
If you take a look at the various TVR threads on PH, we are passionate about the marque! Even living with the problems/ whoops opportunities to improve.
cymtriks said:
MG CHRIS said:
If you look at the sales of the exocet in just 2 years on the market it has sold around 300 kits...
Is that right!!! They sold three hundred, that's not a typo and you meant thirty????As you said, it's hardly pretty. It certainly isn't practical, possibly even less than a Seven type or something from the Sylva lineup.
Seriously, if three hundred kits of just one car can be sold in just two years then what is their secret? Am I just blind to the latest fashion?
How many kits do more traditional stuff like the (very, very pretty) Sylva J15 sell?
The reason is simply it's cheap to build and very easy to build to, the secret is in the donor car the mx5 which is a very good handling car and has decent performance especially in the 1.8 version. In other kits you just take the engine/gearbox and a few other bits from the donor and have to buy the rest which adds up. In the exocet everything is retained, suspension, engine, gearbox/diff, fuel tank, brake assembley, pedals, seats, seat belts, clocks, wiring loom, wheels and tyres the only extras you need to buy are lights and mirrors, aero screen if you want it thats it. So if you pick your donor well you can build a exocet for less than 4k in some cases it's under 3k the kit is 2.6k. Then you have the sales of the unwanted parts which you can easily sell to recover the donor cost and a bit more thats the secret.
The sylya j15 is a very pretty kit would build one myself but around 9-10k getting it on the road and it's not that well advertised not sure on sales though i would guess less than 100 but im not 100% sure.
Dreamspeed said:
MG CHRIS said:
Sorry if this sounds a bit thick and not really paying any attention to lemans is the delta wing actualy a modified caterham/westfield kit car is so then thats really intresting.
One of the previous post said about coming away from fakes and track day kits well look at the market and generaly that whats sell mev/road track and race sell a huge amount of kits mainly exo looks cars and most are used for track days and or the cheap build of the exocet of one im building. Fakes sell because people what to drive something that looks like there dream car be it at a stratos/ gt40/ cobra build or mr2 with lamb or ferrari look body panels.
Production quality kits don't sell because one to expensive case in point the murtaya is best part of 30k for a subaru with a coupe body in there abouts way. Why would you do that when you can spend a tenth of that and can have a highly tunned scooby and the same if you look at 2nd hand cars you can get a ferrari 355 for the price of one. Two the trim and quality is not the same as a production car and three the idea of a kit car is something cheap to build and mainly used for weekend use and track days.
If you look at the sals of the exocet in just 2 years on the market it has sold around 300 kits sold to several countries that is what people want a cheap, simply design with a great donor and to have some fun with it when finished. It's not the most pretty of designs but i don't think any of the exo style cars even the atom are good looking cars but it is not meant to be pretty just a fun toy for the weekend a fun build and meet like minded people who have problems and overcome them and to share them.
I truly believe mev/rtr have the best models on sale out of any other kit car company and i like many others will keep on buying from them and having fun and who cares what joe public think what kit cars are when we have a great choice of cars out there and a great community of experience people and the youngsters who will take that over in the future what more to people want production car quality kit cars for half the price of one well that is never going to happen.
stuffOne of the previous post said about coming away from fakes and track day kits well look at the market and generaly that whats sell mev/road track and race sell a huge amount of kits mainly exo looks cars and most are used for track days and or the cheap build of the exocet of one im building. Fakes sell because people what to drive something that looks like there dream car be it at a stratos/ gt40/ cobra build or mr2 with lamb or ferrari look body panels.
Production quality kits don't sell because one to expensive case in point the murtaya is best part of 30k for a subaru with a coupe body in there abouts way. Why would you do that when you can spend a tenth of that and can have a highly tunned scooby and the same if you look at 2nd hand cars you can get a ferrari 355 for the price of one. Two the trim and quality is not the same as a production car and three the idea of a kit car is something cheap to build and mainly used for weekend use and track days.
If you look at the sals of the exocet in just 2 years on the market it has sold around 300 kits sold to several countries that is what people want a cheap, simply design with a great donor and to have some fun with it when finished. It's not the most pretty of designs but i don't think any of the exo style cars even the atom are good looking cars but it is not meant to be pretty just a fun toy for the weekend a fun build and meet like minded people who have problems and overcome them and to share them.
I truly believe mev/rtr have the best models on sale out of any other kit car company and i like many others will keep on buying from them and having fun and who cares what joe public think what kit cars are when we have a great choice of cars out there and a great community of experience people and the youngsters who will take that over in the future what more to people want production car quality kit cars for half the price of one well that is never going to happen.
RE TREV
A company heavily involved with the manufacture of super similar reproductions could gain a foothold in a nascent market. The latent customer base is a significant asset.
The dream of ownership need not involve running b4 walking. Most projects are dreams made mortal through money, though more mortal through less money.
The certainty of a well developed and trusted design with good resale values convinces capital risk.
A company heavily involved with the manufacture of super similar reproductions could gain a foothold in a nascent market. The latent customer base is a significant asset.
The dream of ownership need not involve running b4 walking. Most projects are dreams made mortal through money, though more mortal through less money.
The certainty of a well developed and trusted design with good resale values convinces capital risk.
kennyrayandersen said:
dmulally said:
Hi Kennyrayanderson,
Leitch in NZ make Lotus 23 kits.
checked their site and the Lotus 23 isn't showing up...Leitch in NZ make Lotus 23 kits.
I've not been lurking in this thread as often as I should, so apologies for backtracking to an earlier comment re a TVR recreation with British underpinnings but I felt the need to de lurk and actually post.
I wouldn't see a British gearbox as being a necessity. It's never worried Jaguar with their use of Getrag and ZF gearboxes. You could always use Quaife, but that level of engineering comes at too high a price for most. Tremec would be the logical choice given their cost and its ability to cope with anything the AJ-V8 could throw at it, and development time/costs to mate the two units shouldn't be an issue since there's already an off the shelf solution c/o XKR Transmissions.
Given the current price of V8 XJRs, using one as a donor to underpin a 650hp AJ-V8 TREV via a 6 speed Tremec T56 Magnum and Quaife LSD - the stuff dreams are made of
A TREV would certainly attract me back to kit cars. An engine arguably too big for its chassis, under a body that's lithe and purposeful but desperately pretty as well. The Ultima is exceptionally well engineered but not what I would call pretty, and where on the public roads can you actually use its capabilities to their full. Light weight pin sharp handling is covered by Caterfields and second hand Elises. A low production manufacturer can't hope to compete with mainstream cars for capability and build quality in the same package.
Focus on ultimate handling is what you want for a track day toy, and for a road car it sounds attractive but I see it as something of a double edged sword. If it takes development funds away from the car's styling, increases costs substantially for little gain on the road, and removes some of the drama associated with big output engines then it becomes less appealing to many. Seemingly, the less expensive the car the less of an issue it is - presumably because a) with less financial outlay styling expectations are lower, and b) the second hand market becomes less competitive relative to what's achievable for a small manufacturer.
If I'd spent a good chunk of cash building a kit, I'd want to be able to appreciate it sat on the drive as much as when driving.
Murtaya - again well developed, excellent performance, good quality but for me they lack drama and are not what I'd call eye achingly attractive.
Cobra replicas fill the niche well and have always been popular. A more modern take on the AC Cobra - TVR did that well imho. I'm not sure if anything currently available that isn't a replica really jumps out at me to fill that void.
The trouble is, how would magazines and reviewers react to such a car?
Dreamspeed said:
But back to the “TVR-kit”; I absolutely agree with you, I would 100% prefer the TVR brand to be, once again, British; but although Jaguar do a nice V8, the auto box wouldn’t work. And if memory serves, there aren’t any British in-line manual gearbox’s commonly available to handle big power, and if there were, you’ve got the problem of the engineering cost of mating the two together, which would have to be recouped and would ultimately put the final build price up.
The AJ-V8 is a much underrated unit which would make an excellent base. Pretty much bombproof once upgraded to 3rd gen tensioners, light weight and capable of 650hp by swapping out the roots blower to a twin screw supercharger. That should be plenty brutal enough to recreate the TVR spirit. Normally aspirated, stock supercharged or upgraded forced induction would give a wide range of power outputs without having to adjust the chassis for varying engine configurations.I wouldn't see a British gearbox as being a necessity. It's never worried Jaguar with their use of Getrag and ZF gearboxes. You could always use Quaife, but that level of engineering comes at too high a price for most. Tremec would be the logical choice given their cost and its ability to cope with anything the AJ-V8 could throw at it, and development time/costs to mate the two units shouldn't be an issue since there's already an off the shelf solution c/o XKR Transmissions.
Given the current price of V8 XJRs, using one as a donor to underpin a 650hp AJ-V8 TREV via a 6 speed Tremec T56 Magnum and Quaife LSD - the stuff dreams are made of
A TREV would certainly attract me back to kit cars. An engine arguably too big for its chassis, under a body that's lithe and purposeful but desperately pretty as well. The Ultima is exceptionally well engineered but not what I would call pretty, and where on the public roads can you actually use its capabilities to their full. Light weight pin sharp handling is covered by Caterfields and second hand Elises. A low production manufacturer can't hope to compete with mainstream cars for capability and build quality in the same package.
Focus on ultimate handling is what you want for a track day toy, and for a road car it sounds attractive but I see it as something of a double edged sword. If it takes development funds away from the car's styling, increases costs substantially for little gain on the road, and removes some of the drama associated with big output engines then it becomes less appealing to many. Seemingly, the less expensive the car the less of an issue it is - presumably because a) with less financial outlay styling expectations are lower, and b) the second hand market becomes less competitive relative to what's achievable for a small manufacturer.
If I'd spent a good chunk of cash building a kit, I'd want to be able to appreciate it sat on the drive as much as when driving.
Murtaya - again well developed, excellent performance, good quality but for me they lack drama and are not what I'd call eye achingly attractive.
Cobra replicas fill the niche well and have always been popular. A more modern take on the AC Cobra - TVR did that well imho. I'm not sure if anything currently available that isn't a replica really jumps out at me to fill that void.
The trouble is, how would magazines and reviewers react to such a car?
I also agree with everything Jagnet says, and I think it clearly points to an obvious gap in the kitcar market.
Regarding the TVR bodies; perhaps using an exact copy of existing models isn’t the way to go, not so much about the copyright issues, (although could be a problem) but because a lot of TVR bodies had access problems when it came down to service/repair and maintenance. I’d suggest re-engineering it for modern times.
I think everyone knows about the Chimera manifold problem? Also the “after thought” access hole chopped into the Cerbera’s engine bay to gain access to the clutch master cylinder reservoir, and the really poor weather protection around the brake master cylinder… I could go on.
Perhaps a direct copy of an original isn’t the way forward; after all why build a kit, when you could have the original for less?
Maybe a new car, with the essence and design traits of all the old TVR models combined, mated to a bespoke quality chassis and a mix of mechanical parts mentioned by Jagnet?
Ok, I’ve blown the budget, but if there were enough of us to make a team, who would want to be a apart of such a project for the Love and not the money, maybe, just maybe…….. Us Brits could show the “Ruski’s” how it’s done!
Regarding the TVR bodies; perhaps using an exact copy of existing models isn’t the way to go, not so much about the copyright issues, (although could be a problem) but because a lot of TVR bodies had access problems when it came down to service/repair and maintenance. I’d suggest re-engineering it for modern times.
I think everyone knows about the Chimera manifold problem? Also the “after thought” access hole chopped into the Cerbera’s engine bay to gain access to the clutch master cylinder reservoir, and the really poor weather protection around the brake master cylinder… I could go on.
Perhaps a direct copy of an original isn’t the way forward; after all why build a kit, when you could have the original for less?
Maybe a new car, with the essence and design traits of all the old TVR models combined, mated to a bespoke quality chassis and a mix of mechanical parts mentioned by Jagnet?
Ok, I’ve blown the budget, but if there were enough of us to make a team, who would want to be a apart of such a project for the Love and not the money, maybe, just maybe…….. Us Brits could show the “Ruski’s” how it’s done!
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