KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10
Discussion
[quote=Sam_68
Sorry to drag up an old post, but I came across a pic of the Spyder 'Elite' that I took at this year's Donington Lotus Show.
Didn't take one of the front, but you'll get the idea:
edited to add: Obviously, being the Lotus Only parking area, that isn't really a sh1tty old Rover in the background. It's the new Esprit in disguise!
[/quote]
I've always liked the Elite design, but what is potential of such a design in the 21st century? it's a great retro design but the various kitcar manufacturers that made an attempt in reviving it, never got off, but I fail to see what really is the problem with this little sportscar.Maybe a complex build?, costs?
I wonder if retro design is something of the past, and new potential customers are embracing modern designv for their new sportscars, and only a very limited number off people still have an interest, but maybe it wouldn't make a business case for a kitcar manufacturer.
What do you all think?, I beleive this is a relevant question for any new design.
Sorry to drag up an old post, but I came across a pic of the Spyder 'Elite' that I took at this year's Donington Lotus Show.
Didn't take one of the front, but you'll get the idea:
edited to add: Obviously, being the Lotus Only parking area, that isn't really a sh1tty old Rover in the background. It's the new Esprit in disguise!
Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 3rd June 09:34
[/quote]
I've always liked the Elite design, but what is potential of such a design in the 21st century? it's a great retro design but the various kitcar manufacturers that made an attempt in reviving it, never got off, but I fail to see what really is the problem with this little sportscar.Maybe a complex build?, costs?
I wonder if retro design is something of the past, and new potential customers are embracing modern designv for their new sportscars, and only a very limited number off people still have an interest, but maybe it wouldn't make a business case for a kitcar manufacturer.
What do you all think?, I beleive this is a relevant question for any new design.
Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 4th June 09:33
cymtriks said:
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I think retro designs are under used. A lot of non replica kits try to look as exciting as possible by the over use of ducts and intersecting angles. This will date badly and must be very complex to mold. Conversely retro designs will age better and, so I am told, be easier to make.
My Earlier suggesting of updating a classic shape also allows the use of original designs and parts for some bits. As I mentioned earlier a modern version of an older design could use the original glass and the same shape and patterns for the doors and trim. All of this cuts costs and simplifies the design process.
That means that retro design still has an interest, but it needs to have heritage for it to be successful.I think retro designs are under used. A lot of non replica kits try to look as exciting as possible by the over use of ducts and intersecting angles. This will date badly and must be very complex to mold. Conversely retro designs will age better and, so I am told, be easier to make.
My Earlier suggesting of updating a classic shape also allows the use of original designs and parts for some bits. As I mentioned earlier a modern version of an older design could use the original glass and the same shape and patterns for the doors and trim. All of this cuts costs and simplifies the design process.
Good point....and will take that into consideration for my future sketches.
, here are some earlier rough sketches, based on the Murtaya ....working on the coupe...
cymtriks said:
T
And it could use the same glass, door mechanisms and trim patterns as the original making these featues effectively free proven designs. You also have a starting point for the appropriate wheel sizes and engine bay layout.
This is one of the big failings of many styling excercises. They may look great but try to find glass that will fit, get a real engine under the bodywork and put realistic sizes of wheels on them and suddenly the original sketch becomes just a dream.
!
I agree with you, that is why its better to start with some realistic chassis pictures or car images, you can work out the details faster and make the new design almost real and believable.And it could use the same glass, door mechanisms and trim patterns as the original making these featues effectively free proven designs. You also have a starting point for the appropriate wheel sizes and engine bay layout.
This is one of the big failings of many styling excercises. They may look great but try to find glass that will fit, get a real engine under the bodywork and put realistic sizes of wheels on them and suddenly the original sketch becomes just a dream.
!
We can always come up with some fancy design, but if the kitcar manufacture doesn't have tha capabilities, or resources to invest, the fancy design, is almost useless, but very good for your ego...
The kitcar world needs in my opinion, different and unique designs, but that can be manufactured with exhisting technology, at acceptable costs.
Single donors kits could be a solution, in most cases, for all the underpinnings, but sometimes you would need different windshields and doors.
Will explore your Elite project later .....
Joe T said:
I
So take a stock Elite body, jam it full of MX5 running gear, job done, still looks the nuts, buts now all reliable and emission freindly, maybe even quicker though not sure on the last one.
I think that the mx5 is an excellent donor for a modern Elite in my opinion,, reliable engine, great handling and available parts worldwide.So take a stock Elite body, jam it full of MX5 running gear, job done, still looks the nuts, buts now all reliable and emission freindly, maybe even quicker though not sure on the last one.
Twincam16 said:
I'
Now - what about using a Cobra replica mechanical basis, but issueing bodies like the Gordon-Keeble GK1, Iso Grifo, even AC's own 428 - as coupe alternatives.
And here's the difference. There seems to be a big market for this Dunhill-inspired Gentleman's lifestyle stuff at the moment - bespoke leather goods etc.
A 'Grifo' or a '428' with a hingeing rear hatch would be perfect. The only thing that comes close to my idea is the Aristocat Fixed Head (XK140 Coupe replica)
furioserie - I'd like to know what you think of this?
Twincam16Now - what about using a Cobra replica mechanical basis, but issueing bodies like the Gordon-Keeble GK1, Iso Grifo, even AC's own 428 - as coupe alternatives.
And here's the difference. There seems to be a big market for this Dunhill-inspired Gentleman's lifestyle stuff at the moment - bespoke leather goods etc.
A 'Grifo' or a '428' with a hingeing rear hatch would be perfect. The only thing that comes close to my idea is the Aristocat Fixed Head (XK140 Coupe replica)
furioserie - I'd like to know what you think of this?
You do have a very good point, and I'm sure there is a niche for such a market, but as you say, it would have to be bespoke , a tailor made body to fit the cobra chassis.
I would even push further the concept , by having a kitcar company supplying different body designs, to the various kitcar companies and market them as their own.
I can envisage in the future, a kitcar company building a complete rolling chassis with mechanicals for sale to third parties, and others use them to cloth them with their own complete body shell.
The famous italian carrozerias, just like you mentioned, did this in the 60's, using Cobra and Corvette chassis, and it could be done in a modern fashion even today.
I like your idea............
Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 13th June 20:42
I was looking for a different design concept to consider, and thought of a modern dune Buggy, maybe using a FWD engine just like the Stimsondesign prototype, using a Ford fiesta platform , see pictures .
Or maybe a modern mid-engine design, just like the lotus 340 R......
Are Dune Buggies still appealing in the modern kitcar world ? what do you all think ?
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Or maybe a modern mid-engine design, just like the lotus 340 R......
Are Dune Buggies still appealing in the modern kitcar world ? what do you all think ?
[
Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 19th June 14:30
Davi said:
fuoriserie said:
Are Dune Buggies still appealing in the modern kitcar world ? what do you all think ?
I've had a dune buggy (sand rail) and a beach buggy - both of the VW base type. I'd most definitely have another, but only as a weekend fun car, and it most certainly would look NOTHING like that thing in your pics - for such a simple car they are very easy to make look very, very wrong. The latest offerings from Doon are close, but not quite right IMO.
Edited by Davi on Tuesday 19th June 15:15
Mid-engine or rear engine ?, I think that if you still keep the old setup, you could have a 4 seater, or a 2+2, as with the mid-engine it would be a 2 seater..
The Doon is a very interesting design, and don't mind the design of the FUBAR Hoppa, the design looks really unique........
http://www.fubarfactory.com/latest.php
Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 19th June 15:53
cheeky git. I'll have you know I missed it the first time round as well - just happened to find a few while in the VW scene a few years ago (well ok, a decade ago)Either way handling isn't much of an issue, you really don't want to try and take buggies that fast!
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So you're a 60's child then .....
.., the 2 seater rear engine is still the best looking, but an updated version, could be interesting for the oldies of the forum ...........Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 19th June 16:06
grahambell said:
fuoriserie said:
I was looking for a different design concept to consider, and thought of a modern dune Buggy, maybe using a FWD engine just like the Stimsondesign prototype, using a Ford fiesta platform.
Hi Italo, If you're not already familiar with it you might also want to check out the Quantum Sunrunner.This too is a modern take on the buggy theme based on Fiesta parts and predates the Stimson. John Samson, boss of Quantum, says they make a lot of these for car hire companies operating in holiday resorts in Spain - which is where Fiestas are made.
So there's one potential market for a simple fun car.
That is closest in concept to a modern day mid-engine dune buggy,......... I guess a Sylva Mojo, or the Mev Rocket could lend their chassis for such a design project....
Must sketch something soon.....
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