Stafford Show

[Steffan]

DEN TANNER said:

Wacky Racer said:

Money is tight, donor cars are becoming increasingly hard to source, government legislation gets tougher every year, so, only the fittest will survive.

Agreed 100%.
Fewer people are attending shows generally, kit car shows specifically: therefore fewer manufacturers are financially able/willing to put on a display: so the shows offer decreasing appeal to the public: so fewer people attend: so show promoters are forced to increase both stand and gate prices: so many manufacturers are refusing to attend. In a loop - aren't we?
It seems to me there's not a single kit car show whose future is secure for 2012, let alone beyond. Even the great Stoneleigh show was significantly down this year. There surely comes a point when the economics of running shows doesn't add-up.

Wacky Racer said:

You may have lost the battle, but you will win the war.....

Is the war worth winning?
Den

As I have said before Den, you are an ideas man.

I think the current Kit Car shows are in need of a fundamental revision. You are right the Stoneleigh show was not good and this has been true of every show I have been to over the last year.

I have no doubt you will come up with a plan: that's your forte. You have done once or twice before!

I could not design my way out of a paper bag. I am an Accountant not a profession noted for its design flair.

But many years of building Kit Cars has made me realise there are too many simple seven clones and copies about. We do NOT need 20 Locost type makers.

What is needed is a really different take on the Kit Car.

If that could produce a vehicle that really grabbed the owners attention and the car was kept within realistic costs, then I think the energy and fizz of busy vibrant shows would return.

We need an outstanding new product. I cannot find one. Nor can other enthusiasts.

Hence the disappointing shows.

[singlecoil]

If I was seriously in the market for a kit car, I might drag myself to a show, but in reality I would far more likely read the magazines and get on the internet, locate the car that most interested me and visit the maker. I would only go to a show if it was handy and I didn't have anything else to do that weekend. By visiting the maker I would get much more attention, I would be able to see the operation, and would even get a ride, possibly a drive, in the demonstrator.

[fuoriserie]

Rob52 said:

eg: What about a "show ring" outside where Manufacturers can show off their demonstrator, drive it round (in a sensible fashion) talk over a tannoy system to the gathering crowds, explaining their cars, ideas, companies, future, basic costs, etc..

I like this idea .., it would get the manufaturers to show, talk about their car and then drive it in front of potential new buyers.

even better if If you had a show at a track, as it would be perfect for potential drivers to drive the demonstrator and get a real sense of the finished product.

[singlecoil]

fuoriserie said:

Rob52 said:

eg: What about a "show ring" outside where Manufacturers can show off their demonstrator, drive it round (in a sensible fashion) talk over a tannoy system to the gathering crowds, explaining their cars, ideas, companies, future, basic costs, etc..

I like this idea .., it would get the manufaturers to show, talk about their car and then drive it in front of potential new buyers.

even better if If you had a show at a track, as it would be perfect for potential drivers to drive the demonstrator and get a real sense of the finished product.

It's a lovely idea from the punters' point of view, the chance to drive various interesting cars, presumably all for the cost of the entrance ticket. I wonder how many of them would be seriously interested in buying, though? I don't think they offer test rides, or even active demonstrations, at any motor show.

[Iwantoneofthose]

singlecoil said:

It's a lovely idea from the punters' point of view, the chance to drive various interesting cars, presumably all for the cost of the entrance ticket. I wonder how many of them would be seriously interested in buying, though? I don't think they offer test rides, or even active demonstrations, at any motor show.

The moving motor show...

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/...

[mirach]

the problem with"mainstream" motor shows is the sheer cost of exhibiting,something most kit manufacturers cannot afford. i still think a well organised joint effort from manufacturers and ALL the magazines at a decent track where manufacturers can take prospective buyers out and let the cars do what they do best, in relative safety, and also the opportunity for existing owners to have a go on track for a realistic cost would be the best option, most people with kit cars are real enthusiasts and enjoy going to the shows.
The fact that people are fed up with seeing the same thing over and over, at show after show is a difficult problem to overcome, so maybe we need something different to pull the crowds, for example; a famous race driver or ex race driver that would be prepared to spend a couple of hours taking paying passengers round in a quick car, with the proceeds going to a reputeable charity ie c.l.i.c or such like. with us all working together we could surely bully someone into that. and how many people would like to come back from a show saying "i got a lap around donnington with nigel mansell" for example
i am genuinely sorry that stafford did not match up to expectations for the organisers,exhibitors and the visitors, so do we let the shows die a death or find something to revive them!!

[Dave Dax builder]

Please bear in mind that not all manufacturers produce kits cars for weekend wannabe racers.
Beauford for one spring to mind, but there are plenty more.
Race circuits do have indoor, outdoor and tarmac, which could be useful But wasn't this called "Donnington" a few years ago? And that fell by the wayside.
I don't proffess to know the answer to this quandry, but if anyone is well placed to organise a show then Den is the man. He does have the best access to cheep/free advertising after all!!!

[200Plus Club]

have only been to a couple of kit shows, and none as such inspired me, but the donnington events weren't bad, something with the ability to drive cars, or be driven around in the car of choice for aspiring builders would be great. i bought a GD kit on the basis of magazine reviews and photos as the starter interest, but based mainly on a test ride around Brunters on the GD open day on a trackday.
something along those lines with trade stands and decent food stalls is about all i would expect and need, i'd pay £10-15 to get in if it was good (summer ideally!) but would expect to get in foc if showing my car. would expect to pay if track sessions were available aka donnington, and wouldnt generally want to go to more than one show per year based on kitcars.
personally i buy the odd kit magazine still for a read but there seems to be too many small shows spread through the year and spread thro the country. maybe its time to cut back to one or two shows per season max?

[DEN TANNER]

Dave Dax builder said:

I don't profess to know the answer to this quandary, but if anyone is well placed to organise a show then Den is the man. He does have the best access to cheep/free advertising after all!!!

Emmm.....
Remember I've already admitted being both presumptuous and arrogant....
But I agree with Dave. I've watched all the other shows decline to the point where expenditure (on venue rental, advertising, insurance, etc) exceeds the income (from hard-stretched manufacturers and dwindling numbers of visitors).
It seemed to me that manufacturers in particular would welcome my endeavours to promote an affordable and sustainable event. The sad reality is that I faced a boycott from year one (on top of the credit crunch which 'Hit' that same year, along with dreadful weather). I pressed ahead anyway, but with the boycott in place I faced an up-hill struggle. Culminating in this year's event being somewhat less than a success.
Cookie retires this year and I cannot see anybody continuing his two events (because they are no longer profitable). Newark and Stoneleigh surely cannot be too far behind.

Steffan said:

As I have said before Den, you are an ideas man.
I think the current Kit Car shows are in need of a fundamental revision. You are right the Stoneleigh show was not good and this has been true of every show I have been to over the last year.
I have no doubt you will come up with a plan: that's your forte. You have done once or twice before!

My problem is that my plan was scuppered this year.....
It was a simple plan..... just keep Stafford running..... time was intended to take care of the rest.
It really is a brilliant venue.... right price.... ideal size.... great outside facilities.... in fact it's like a scaled-down Stoneleigh - just about right for the presently down-sized kit car industry.
However, Stafford required support rather than a boycott.
Now the industry faces the prospect of just two shows in 2012, both on a back-foot in my humble opinion.

[Meeja]

DEN TANNER said:

Now the industry faces the prospect of just two shows in 2012, both on a back-foot in my humble opinion.

But better to have two shows that have a degree of quality about them, than multiple shows that are poorer.

Create a quality show and the punters will return.

Once the punters return, then the traders and exhibitors will return

Once the traders return, more punters will return.

However, it will not be an easy fix, and it will be akin to turning a supertanker around.

[DEN TANNER]

Meeja said:

However, it will not be an easy fix, and it will be akin to turning a supertanker around.

It certainly won't be an easy fix..... for one simple reason..... neither of these show's promoters are either placed nor attempting to effect any kind of turn.
In words extracted from Dad's Army "We're doomed - doomed!"
Or is there a way forward?
Den

[Rob52]

Stafford may have been an ideal site to you but I feel the biggest issue was the lack of being able to control the gate, this was the sites biggest downfall.

[Wacky Racer]

Can't see a problem with the venue, as anyone who has ever been to the Classic bike show will tell you, the place is always heaving, I mean it's that full it is actually uncomfortable to walk round....although the classic bike scene seems recession proof, prices are going through the roof for most fifties/sixties stuff...

So no, I don't think you can blame Stafford, it is within easy travelling distance of many large areas of population, Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham and the motorway access is superb.

Onwards and upwards,...... the glass is still half full......

[DEN TANNER]

Wacky Racer said:

Can't see a problem with the venue.....

So no, I don't think you can blame Stafford.....

Seems we're narrowing it down.

I blame the organiser!!!!! Needs ing. That's what I say.

[Fair Parking]

Should I have my twopence worth on the show Den? Starting with why I chose that venue back in 1987 - at a time when nobody knew much about it. The Classic Bike Show was still a small time event being hosted in a drill hall in Bolton whilst kit car manufacturers were telling me they wouldn't support the new venture at Stafford.

And those who said that, didn't.

Too many shows I believe.

[B33FY]

DEN TANNER said:

Seems we're narrowing it down.

I blame the organiser!!!!! Needs ing. That's what I say.

There's little point in beating yourself up over this. You have acknowledged some areas for improvement including engaging the right personal qualities for the situation, self awareness is a good starting point. Consider the experience as feedback rather than failure, learn and act on the feedback and you will grow from the experience.

[Wacky Racer]

DEN TANNER said:

Wacky Racer said:

Can't see a problem with the venue.....

So no, I don't think you can blame Stafford.....

Seems we're narrowing it down.

I blame the organiser!!!!! Needs ing. That's what I say.

Despite this setback, good to see you've still retained your sense of humour,... bit early to throw the towel in just yet:-



I look forward to your thoughts in next month's issue of KC....

[spaximus]

I think we must regognise that things change. I am old enough to remeber the 70's custom cars shows which were huge but died out as fashions chnaged. Kit cars shows have tried different formats over the years but as tastes have changed so has the show wants. Stoneleigh will survive but others may not, like Capsthorne hall, Malvern & Harrogate there are not enough punters to go around. Remember that even the motorshow has bite the dust in this country.
What has survived and thrived is the Classic car show, the Fast Ford Shows, VW shows as more people can see themselves in one of these than a kitcar. It is sad that we are where we are but that is the nature of progress. Even in the states the Hot Rod crowd are loosing out to the Fast and Furious types.
Steve Hole organised the kit kar corner at a Castle Coombe action day last year MK drove all the way from Yorkshire and could not get below the draconian noise limits so would they do that again?

With all the doom and gloom in the news it is little wonder that many see building a kit car as an expense they can ill afford, sadly.

[DEN TANNER]

Wacky Racer said:

I look forward to your thoughts in next month's issue of KC....

Hi Wacky,
Don't hold your breath....
October's Kit Car mag is printing, and there's nothing concerning Stafford in it (apart from news we gleaned there).
There might be something in November's edition. Problem is that, probably for the first time in my life, I'm lost for words. One of the reasons I'm here is to gauge public opinion such that I can distil my thoughts in order to make a 'correct' report.
Another reason I'm here is to see if I can pick up some pearls of wisdom concerning my future strategy. You wouldn't believe how disappointed I am now that the plan I've been working towards for 10 years has unravelled.
So lads, give me a new plan.
Preferably one without one of these in it.
Den

[Racing8]

How about mallory park or silverstone on a not for profit basis ????? i.e all profits go to a charity. eh !

I think MOP don't go to shows because theres nothing in it for them...or not enough to make the effort.

Traders dont go because its too expensive for the perceived exposure

Kit car owners dont go as theres nothing to do once there there ( perception)

They need a common cause so.....

Tie up with a charity, I would suggest Help for Heroes, this would generate non kit car area interest/ exposure and utilise the charity, to drive the price out of the circuit hire.

Traders can display for free on the basis that they have a demonstrator that they can take people around the circuit in for a fee which which goes into the pot.
Kit car drivers enter for free but pay to use the track on a 3 lap basis, half day or full day use, fees go into the pot.
MOP can enter for a small fee watch the track action get a ride in a kit car and browse, fee's go into the pot.

The pot pays costs and all profits go to the charity.

Traders get a low cost display, with a higher number of visitors
Kit car drivers get to use the track, compare with other cars and get demo runs of other cars
potential buyers can view several cars and get a feel of how they drive on the road/track.
Higher visitor numbers means more of a buzz and good business for the stalls and good income from the traders for their pitches.

How hard can it be
and if the numbers stack up, the following could be similar with another charity or stand alone without a charitable edge

Edited by Racing8 on Tuesday 27th September 20:29