Python brochure
Discussion
SpartanAndy said:
Oh yes
Delegation,
delegation,
Delegation, that's what you need if you wanna be the best,
and you wanna beat the rest,
delegations what you need if you wanna be a record breaker yeah
Emmm
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cloud9.gif)
Delegation enables me to spend so much time on the net
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
Ex-Biker said:You ain’t done nofing rong
Is Den OK, I've not been yet.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/jester.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/argue.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
Just asking
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cop.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/type.gif)
That’s all
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hippy.gif)
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cloud9.gif)
No brochure yet . . . . It's like waiting for a free copy of Kit Car. Everyone has one before me!
I really though you were having a dig about what a kit car brochure should (does) consist of.
I know the Pilgrim ones are good and I would like to see all manufacturers produce good quality brochures. IMHO it helps to bring the produce upmarket.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
I really though you were having a dig about what a kit car brochure should (does) consist of.
I know the Pilgrim ones are good and I would like to see all manufacturers produce good quality brochures. IMHO it helps to bring the produce upmarket.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
kitcarman said:
All I know of RV Dynamics is that they ran up a bill with Kit Car for advertising, then vanished. Then reappeared in Which Kit? Neither Vince nor Reg have contacted me for over 2 years. Post is “returned to sender”.
I know I'm gona regret this but the story I was told was that a single advert was ordered for the same issue as the feature of the Nemesis in KCM and that it didn't appear..... there were phone calls and the ad then appeared for multipe issues (but not the one ordered).
Now I'm sure Den could check this, but I don't have any issues from that era so I unfortunatelly can't.....
I'll also point out that I have seen the remains of the jigs for the old Python at the RV factory over here along with 3 new python chasis (along with BMW running gear) that didn't look floppy to me compared to other cobras
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
We all know PF is somehow involved with the Python.... and I suspect he is getting the exact response he was hoping for from an old rival....
My odservation... why does PF need to come on here and get into a slagging match. He can do far more damage by delivering and proving one specific car.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
BTW I've had many broshures over the past year and very few were anything more than photocopies, the Ultima and Westfield one's being the exceptions from my collection.
Bugger I nealy forgot the emotions
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/tongue.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/rolleyes.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/laugh.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
Thew that was close.
andycanam said:
I know I'm gona regret this but . . .
No you're not
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hippy.gif)
andycanam said:
the story I was told was that a single advert was ordered for the same issue as the feature of the Nemesis in KCM and that it didn't appear..... there were phone calls and the ad then appeared for multipe issues (but not the one ordered).
Now I'm sure Den could check this, but I don't have any issues from that era so I unfortunatelly can't.....
Who told you this? Why haven't they brought it to my attention
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hehe.gif)
No offence Andy, you're not being attacked
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/punch.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/vomit.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cop.gif)
andycanam said:Maybe you have seen Python jigs
I'll also point out that I have seen the remains of the jigs for the old Python at the RV factory over here along with 3 new python chasis (along with BMW running gear) that didn't look floppy to me compared to other cobras ![]()
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
Kris could help, if we can find him
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/smile.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/nerd.gif)
andycanam said:Good to see we're making progress
We all know PF is somehow involved with the Python....
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hehe.gif)
andycanam said:That's reassuring
and I suspect he is getting the exact response he was hoping for from an old rival....
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cloud9.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/angel.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/yikes.gif)
andycanam said:I'll respond with the concluding words from another thread.
My odservation... why does PF need to come on here and get into a slagging match.
gdr said:
. . . speak up Filby fans! If not, I guess we must assume Den is in the right!(and then can we stop this B ks?)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/judge.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/nono.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/type.gif)
andycanam said:
He can do far more damage by delivering and proving one specific car. ![]()
I'll respond with someone else¡¦s words.
Ex-Biker said:
My point was a very simple one and very similar to the very first message I sent you.
If the car is good build one and prove it!
![]()
![]()
andycanam said:For what it's worth, I reckon that Fib's not saying anything
BTW I've had many broshures over the past year and very few were anything more than photocopies, the Ultima and Westfield one's being the exceptions from my collection.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/argue.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/judge.gif)
That's not an attack on you Andy, neither is it on BigRon. The simple plain fact is that what Fib's is doing is
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shout.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/scratchchin.gif)
BigRon said:However, it's clear
Den challenged me and Ex Biker to phone RV Dynamics for a Python brochure which he suggested didn't even exist. Mine arrived today as promised by the bloke I spoke to. I was very impressed by what I was told and that the information arrived in the post when they said it would.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/readit.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/wink.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/tank.gif)
Nobody's attacking anybody else
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/punch.gif)
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hippy.gif)
>> Edited by kitcarman on Friday 28th November 23:19
You havn't seen this car/chasis etc in person yet.... but you seem to be staking your reputation that this car will be/is rubbish.
You complain that they (PF) are judging how good the car is before it has been built.... well you are doing the same by judging how bad it is before it built.
Both are opposing assumptions made by opposing Editors of our only Kit car magazines (that appear to hate each other).
I sort of feel that this is like the Labour part V's the Conservatives, with every trick in the book being used by both sides to rubbish the other..... Both are doing it but in very different ways.
And silence does'nt mean guilt... I've never met or spoken to PF so can't comment here.
But I have met Ted and I'm not the least surprised that he has not got drawn into a public slagging match (can't think of a less offensive word).
Anyhow as we've all agreed before, only time will tell with regard to this car....
and I doubt the Den/PF thing will ever end.....
On the subject of advertising.... who struck up that deal with Mark Evans, he always seems to be building a Cobra replica and its always a Sumo with a chevy V8
Cleaver![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/clap.gif)
You complain that they (PF) are judging how good the car is before it has been built.... well you are doing the same by judging how bad it is before it built.
Both are opposing assumptions made by opposing Editors of our only Kit car magazines (that appear to hate each other).
I sort of feel that this is like the Labour part V's the Conservatives, with every trick in the book being used by both sides to rubbish the other..... Both are doing it but in very different ways.
And silence does'nt mean guilt... I've never met or spoken to PF so can't comment here.
But I have met Ted and I'm not the least surprised that he has not got drawn into a public slagging match (can't think of a less offensive word).
Anyhow as we've all agreed before, only time will tell with regard to this car....
and I doubt the Den/PF thing will ever end.....
On the subject of advertising.... who struck up that deal with Mark Evans, he always seems to be building a Cobra replica and its always a Sumo with a chevy V8
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/yes.gif)
Cleaver
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/clap.gif)
andycanam said:
You havn't seen this car/chasis etc in person yet.... but you seem to be staking your reputation that this car will be/is rubbish.:
I have not said that the car will be rubbish!
In print I’ve said that it’s impossible to say anything definitive until one’s been built.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/vomit.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
andycanam said:
You complain that they (PF) are judging how good the car is before it has been built.... well you are doing the same by judging how bad it is before it built.
As I said above, I’m not referring to anything I’ve not seen. The chassis is IMHO poor from a structural integrity point of view.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/soapbox.gif)
andycanam said:
Both are opposing assumptions made by opposing Editors of our only Kit car magazines (that appear to hate each other).
I sort of feel that this is like the Labour part V's the Conservatives, with every trick in the book being used by both sides to rubbish the other..... Both are doing it but in very different ways.
To say the car hasn’t been built is not an assumption, so your political analogy doesn’t hold water. Similarly my other points (as published) are not assumptions either. Fib’s is involved. No BMW V8 has been fitted, etc.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
andycanam said:
And silence doesn’t mean guilt...
We’ll take that as an expression of your opinion. My opinion, along with many others, is to the contrary.
andycanam said:
I've never met or spoken to PF so can't comment here.
But I have met Ted and I'm not the least surprised that he has not got drawn into a public slagging match (can't think of a less offensive word).
Beg your pardon Andy, but the situation with Ted was that he attacked me in saying that I “shamelessly” gave him free ads and that he’d ‘never knowingly advertised in Kit Car. I responded with some questions that he didn’t answer. There was no ‘slagging’ and agree that your choice of language is offensive. I’m sure you could have thought up a less emotive term if you really wanted to.
andycanam said:
Anyhow as we've all agreed before, only time will tell with regard to this car....
Even IF it eventually turns-out well, it would not excuse the distortions that are presently been published IMHO. Much less if it doesn’t end well
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/yikes.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
andycanam said:
and I doubt the Den/PF thing will ever end.....
O ye of little faith!
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shout.gif)
andycanam said:
On the subject of advertising.... who struck up that deal with Mark Evans, he always seems to be building a Cobra replica and its always a Sumo with a chevy V8 ![]()
Cleaver
On both occasions it was me in my capacity as owner of Pilgrim
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/wink.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/weeping.gif)
In summary, you appear to have great difficulty
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/scratchchin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/judge.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/read.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/angel.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/argue.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/readit.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cop.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/paperbag.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
>> Edited by kitcarman on Saturday 29th November 14:47
Den says:
The point is that the making of claims, by a trade magazine editor
with an interest, about a product before the product is made is wrong
.
Now, there surely is a point we can all agree with.
I personally agree with most of what Den says, I've been reading PFs magazines since 'Alternative Cars' in the early 80s and have always been grateful for his endless promotion of the Kit~car industry. BUT the AF saga has completely changed my opinion. The Python situation is, in the cold light of day, just not the sort of operation I'd wish to do business with.
Can anyone HONESTLY tell me they would buy a car without driving it??? New, secondhand OR kitcar?
>> Edited by Ferg on Saturday 29th November 17:24
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cop.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/paperbag.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
Now, there surely is a point we can all agree with.
I personally agree with most of what Den says, I've been reading PFs magazines since 'Alternative Cars' in the early 80s and have always been grateful for his endless promotion of the Kit~car industry. BUT the AF saga has completely changed my opinion. The Python situation is, in the cold light of day, just not the sort of operation I'd wish to do business with.
Can anyone HONESTLY tell me they would buy a car without driving it??? New, secondhand OR kitcar?
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/rofl.gif)
>> Edited by Ferg on Saturday 29th November 17:24
I bought both my GD427 and Ultima GTR without driving them first. Test drives not available for insurance purposes. I believe that the Ultima factory had stopped giving prospective customers a chance to drive after some numpty got a tad overzealous and trashed the demonstrator once upon a time. But I did get taken out as a passenger in each and there was plenty good press on them so I don't think this was taking a risk.
Oh yes, and there wasn't even a demonstrator to see when I bought the Rotrax kit - this was taking a bit of a chance but it turned out OK.
I think something new on the market would warrant a drive though, plus an extended examination of how it is put together. Personally, I'd feel more confident buying a kit after a few others had taken the plunge and given feed back on various websites and the mags. This is where the mags should be useful, to give informed opinion on products for the punters, but in the case of the Python, I fear an unbiased and objective opinion may be difficult to get from either WK or KC judging from content of this and other threads.
>> Edited by gdr on Saturday 29th November 20:31
Oh yes, and there wasn't even a demonstrator to see when I bought the Rotrax kit - this was taking a bit of a chance but it turned out OK.
I think something new on the market would warrant a drive though, plus an extended examination of how it is put together. Personally, I'd feel more confident buying a kit after a few others had taken the plunge and given feed back on various websites and the mags. This is where the mags should be useful, to give informed opinion on products for the punters, but in the case of the Python, I fear an unbiased and objective opinion may be difficult to get from either WK or KC judging from content of this and other threads.
>> Edited by gdr on Saturday 29th November 20:31
gdr said:Because. . .
I bought both my GD427 and Ultima GTR without driving them first. . . .
gdr said:
. . .there was plenty good press on them so I don't think this was taking a risk.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cop.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/yikes.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/judge.gif)
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
Point taken GDR, but suppose you just didn't like the way it drove, I mean after spending all that time putting it together. At least if it was a mainstream car you could just sell it on, but after building it....
I know we, and I'm as guilty as anyone if not more, cut kitcar companies more slack than most, but surely a demonstrator (at least for a ride) should be available before you start trying to sell them. I know of one kit manufacturer who had difficulty keeping ahead of his ONE customer in the race to finish the demonstrator. Sadly that went horribly wrong leaving the customer initially high and dry. Another company I am aware of consider 3 years to be the time taken to bring a car from the drawing board to the marketplace. That's before anyone finds out about the car let alone they advertise it.
I hate to start sounding like Den (he's best at it after all), but if you bang on about raising standards while selling kits that aren't strictly speaking ready for the market, something stinks.
I know we, and I'm as guilty as anyone if not more, cut kitcar companies more slack than most, but surely a demonstrator (at least for a ride) should be available before you start trying to sell them. I know of one kit manufacturer who had difficulty keeping ahead of his ONE customer in the race to finish the demonstrator. Sadly that went horribly wrong leaving the customer initially high and dry. Another company I am aware of consider 3 years to be the time taken to bring a car from the drawing board to the marketplace. That's before anyone finds out about the car let alone they advertise it.
I hate to start sounding like Den (he's best at it after all), but if you bang on about raising standards while selling kits that aren't strictly speaking ready for the market, something stinks.
I and others have frequently asked
In fact it’s been said by BigRon and AndyCanham that Fib’s isn’t obliged to say anything.
However aren’t we missing the point that he’s actually
said rather a lot.
We all know that one of the purposes of magazines such as Which?
and in this case Which Kit?
is to spare consumers some of the effort of separating the wheat from the chaff
. Indeed such magazines reader’s pay their money for the honesty, objectivity and integrity
of the journalism, such that they my purchase goods in the knowledge that they’re making wise decisions
. That honesty, and objectivity clearly isn’t applied in certain cases
. Some punters will consequently make unwise decisions
.
, is it? There’s a right way to promote a new product
. The quote from Which Kit?
indicates that they know exactly what they’re doing
.
Things don’t come much simpler than that IMHO. So…..
silent. On my fundamental point, most appear to appreciate that I’m right
.
, and whilst Kit Car advertising revenue is climbing at Which Kit?’s expense
, I’m very happy that Fib’s is content to keep his gob shut. However, he’s only one ‘victim’. It was several days ago that Vince was contacted, and let’s not forget that RV is his
business. Surely he’d like the record put straight, if it’s not straight already
.
Den![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
kitcarman said:
Why do you think we never hear from Fib’s?
In fact it’s been said by BigRon and AndyCanham that Fib’s isn’t obliged to say anything.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shout.gif)
kitcarman said:
Fib’s has written and edited articles in which his involvement is (dishonestly IMHO) referred to from a third party perspective, using pseudonyms such as “Mr Financier” and “the new owners”. Then there’s what’s actually said concerning handling and performance. Clearly, there’s something
DRASTICALLY WRONG when cars that have never been driven are said to possess impeccable road manners.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/angel.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biglaugh.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/scratchchin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/weeping.gif)
WhichKit said:Indeed, it’s been said on this forum that “good press” influences intelligent purchasers. However, in this case the “good press” simply isn’t accurate
It is a constant brainwashing misinformation process which unfortunately the gullible public will believe.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/nono.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/type.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/paperbag.gif)
Ex-Biker said:However, what’s reported isn’t based on what’s been built, but on what’s hoped shall be built.
My point was a very simple one. . . .
If the car is good build one and prove it!
kitcarman said:
I’m exposing what’s going on.
Things don’t come much simpler than that IMHO. So…..
kitcarman said:It’s very comforting that most can see why Fib’s is deafeningly
Frankly I’m astonished at the backlash it’s brought upon me.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/ears.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
kitcarman said:Frankly, whilst Fib’s is loosing readers like Ferg and Flintstone at the rate he is
. . . . that advertiser, for whatever reason doesn’t consider that he’s restrained by matters of integrity AND is also publisher AND editor AND copy writer (in the case of ads) AND journalist (in the case of editorial). He’s a law unto himself.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cloud9.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/wink.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hehe.gif)
grahambell said:Graham, is Vince shy too? Or has he responded?
In answer to Den's question, no, not had a reply from Vince yet, but give it some time.
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/biggrin.gif)
kitcarman said:
However, what’s reported isn’t based on what’s been built, but on what’s hoped shall be built.
I agree with they have blown their own trumpet too early, Stupid but hardly rare in the car industry generally.
kitcarman said:
Frankly, whilst Fib’s is loosing readers like Ferg and Flintstone at the rate he is:cloud9
Frankly your currently BOTH losing my custom....
but to big you up a little I havn't even considered buying WK, whereas I wont buy yours until the comic sketches are gone.
I'm not interested in defending PF.... and we've done the all this before so I'm going to do the silent bit for a while.
andycanam said:1 year and 10 months before they had anything to show.
I agree with they have blown their own trumpet too early. . .
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/soapbox.gif)
Even now they haven’t got a
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
andycanam said:Did we ever have it
Frankly your currently BOTH losing my custom....
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/scratchchin.gif)
andycanam said:They went with the November issue
I wont buy yours until the comic sketches are gone.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cloud9.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/idea.gif)
andycanam said:
I'm not interested in defending PF.....
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/tank.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/boxedin.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/punch.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/read.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/vomit.gif)
As I’ve said before, I’ve no argument
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/argue.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/punch.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/readit.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/wink.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shout.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/clap.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/bounce.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/beer.gif)
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hippy.gif)
PS. Does this mean it's over?
Once upon a time I did actually believe what I read in the kit mags, but of course now there is no way I would allow myself to be influenced by WK or KC articles largely due to the widely differing opinions offered.
Den, the Python "good press" in WK is more than balanced by your contributions.
Is average of "totally brilliant" plus "totally crap" = "not bad, worth a try". I think not.
At least if you want to buy a sports saloon, opinions given in EVO and What Car are generally along the same lines even if emphasis on different aspects may differ (eg EVO more interested in handling, What Car in running costs etc).
But neither are out to promote a particular product for financial gain or rubbish another for whatever reasons.
Den, the Python "good press" in WK is more than balanced by your contributions.
Is average of "totally brilliant" plus "totally crap" = "not bad, worth a try". I think not.
At least if you want to buy a sports saloon, opinions given in EVO and What Car are generally along the same lines even if emphasis on different aspects may differ (eg EVO more interested in handling, What Car in running costs etc).
But neither are out to promote a particular product for financial gain or rubbish another for whatever reasons.
I largely agree with what you have said gdr, but both mags you mention would tell people of potential death traps or (eg) Rover 'k' series engines have a design fault and blow head gaskets (alledgedly).
I they didn't manufacturers wouldn't be forced into changing aspects of our cars and we would still all be driving cars that rust within a year or continually break down.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
I they didn't manufacturers wouldn't be forced into changing aspects of our cars and we would still all be driving cars that rust within a year or continually break down.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
gdr said:As I’ve said, the fundamental argument
Is average of "totally brilliant" plus "totally crap" = "not bad, worth a try". I think not.
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/argue.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/read.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/judge.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
teacher said:I think it follows that the reporting in one magazine is commendable
“existing, established, high quality ” plus “non-existent
, confidence trick
” = “be very careful
” .
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/angel.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/evil.gif)
In the absence of a car
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/driving.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/hehe.gif)
So, what's wrong with Kit Car
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/readit.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/yikes.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/confused.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/cop.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/teacher.gif)
Den
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/shoot.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/party.gif)
![](http://www.pistonheads.com/include/images/bounce.gif)
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff