Any more info on the Aeon 420?
Discussion
Has anyone heard anything more about it? Does anyone know if MIRA is going to release the results of their testing? I probably have more questions about the car (about suspension geometry, aerodynamics, what engines it could fit, etc. etc.) than the designers would be willing to answer...
Its exactly the kind of car I was looking for (hardtop with aerodynamic aids, basically a cheaper, lighter Ultima) and I think with a different (ie non-purple) paint job than what is shown on their site it wouldn't look half-bad. Of course it would need a much more powerfull engine than a 2.0L NA 4-banger
I will never understand how Brits can live with so little top-end...
Thanks for any help.
>>> Edited by GrantB on Saturday 17th January 23:59
Its exactly the kind of car I was looking for (hardtop with aerodynamic aids, basically a cheaper, lighter Ultima) and I think with a different (ie non-purple) paint job than what is shown on their site it wouldn't look half-bad. Of course it would need a much more powerfull engine than a 2.0L NA 4-banger
I will never understand how Brits can live with so little top-end... Thanks for any help.
>>> Edited by GrantB on Saturday 17th January 23:59
Hi Grant,
Sorry can't help on the Aeon.
..it's one I'm watching myself....Just wanted to say Hi from a fellow Florida Pistonheader...
Where are you based?
Cheers,
Alan B
www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/
Sorry can't help on the Aeon.
..it's one I'm watching myself....Just wanted to say Hi from a fellow Florida Pistonheader... Where are you based?
Cheers,
Alan B
www.desicodesign.com/meerkat/
GrantB said:
Of course it would need a much more powerfull engine than a 2.0L NA 4-banger
Odd, I've always found big V8's to not rev too high and deliver lots of low down torque, where as us brits have high revving peaky engines, so in reference to your quote, so little top end what?
B19GRR said:
Oh you yanks with your 'slap a V8 in it and it'll be OK' attitude, I just don't know!! 
Take a leaf from Colin Chapman's book and stick to speed through weight I say.
No where did I leave that V8 for my 240Z, ooops
Cheers,
Rob
Ah, who said anything about a V8? Just because I'm a yank you think I want to put a V8 in it?
Although if a LS1 could fit in a car the size of an Aeon I'd probably try it! Sure it weighs 430lbs (wet w/ accessories), but with an aggressive heads/cam package they can make 450 at the wheels Actually I was thinking something along the lines of a turbo I4, or maybe a 60-degree V6 if it would fit. I've got experience making and tuning turbo systems anyways.
The all-aluminum LS1 found in our Corvettes and F-bodies is the only one I would use in a kit-car (in an Ultima, if I had the cash!). Most of the others are like mattstead says, lots of weight, lots of torque, not a lot of power. The newer DOHC 4.6L Ford motors are REALLY heavy, and make TONS of power (as the stock engines can take 30 psi from a twin screw blower).
I was simply saying that a naturally aspirated 2.0L engine isn't going to accelerate a car with the frontal area of an Aeon very fast after 100mph or so.
Man I bet you guys think I all know how to do is turn left on ovals??
-Grant
'97 Toyota Supra
3.0L single-turbo I6, NOT a V8 but still waaay too heavy.
'04 Intrepid 100cc racing kart
164lbs, lighter than your kit cars
>> Edited by GrantB on Monday 19th January 00:46
I don’t have much more into, other than talking to keith at the factory, he seems very helpful, and enthusiastic
HE was chatting to me about the V6 duratec (out of the st220 and jag among others) The engine produces around 230bhp some manufactures are getting more out of it. He seems to think it will fit (as he sugested it to me)
Its still not enough power to shift the potential 700kg weight to the sort of speeds im looking for (I currently have a megablade , but would like my next car to be faster accelerating).
If there is tuning potential for the V6 (say to around 260-280bhp cheeply) then it would be a super engine to use with the aeon, and I may seriously consider building on later this year.
He mentioned they spent time in the tunnel, and got some great results regarding the aero dynamics and downforce, so its all looking pretty good at this early stage.
The next step for me is to get a first hand look/ride in one, and confirm the potential power of the v6 (without going overboard on costs, as I am budgeting for around 15k in total…the cheaper the better)
Incidentally if anyone knows where to get one of these V6 engines can you let me know, would also like to know the cost too.
Maybe we should set up a E-Mail group for those who find out anything can post it to the others. May be there are other interested that have taken picks at the shows we can share and stuff. If anyone is interested ill set one up for us, just drop me a line
Cheers
HE was chatting to me about the V6 duratec (out of the st220 and jag among others) The engine produces around 230bhp some manufactures are getting more out of it. He seems to think it will fit (as he sugested it to me)
Its still not enough power to shift the potential 700kg weight to the sort of speeds im looking for (I currently have a megablade , but would like my next car to be faster accelerating).
If there is tuning potential for the V6 (say to around 260-280bhp cheeply) then it would be a super engine to use with the aeon, and I may seriously consider building on later this year.
He mentioned they spent time in the tunnel, and got some great results regarding the aero dynamics and downforce, so its all looking pretty good at this early stage.
The next step for me is to get a first hand look/ride in one, and confirm the potential power of the v6 (without going overboard on costs, as I am budgeting for around 15k in total…the cheaper the better)
Incidentally if anyone knows where to get one of these V6 engines can you let me know, would also like to know the cost too.
Maybe we should set up a E-Mail group for those who find out anything can post it to the others. May be there are other interested that have taken picks at the shows we can share and stuff. If anyone is interested ill set one up for us, just drop me a line
Cheers
catflap,
I don't know anything about those V6s, as I don't think we get them on this side of the pond. They are 3.0L correct? One of the engines designed by both Mazda and Ford? I know the smaller Mazda/Ford V6s are considered very good for their size (the KL series), but they only go up to 2.5L.
Nissan's new VQ35DE in their 350Z and Maxima might be an option. I don't know if you guys get those cars in the UK? The Maxima uses them in a FWD configuration with a 6-speed transmission and helical LSD. With freed up intake and exhaust they can produce around 240-250 hp and ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. All-aluminum, variable intake cam and a flat torque curve. If (when?) you need more, there are people supercharging them too (as I imagine a turbo setup on a V6 wouldn't come close to fitting under the hood). Not sure on the price of the engine, but there are many maximas on the road, so it can't be too bad. Only problem is that its a 3.5L, so its probably larger than the 3.0L ford.
I didn't know they had done any wind tunnel testing, thats great news. Are they planning on releasing that, and the other data they got from MIRA? Also, do you know if the Aeon's uprights and hubs are based off the standard Sierra stuff?
>> Edited by GrantB on Monday 19th January 03:33
I don't know anything about those V6s, as I don't think we get them on this side of the pond. They are 3.0L correct? One of the engines designed by both Mazda and Ford? I know the smaller Mazda/Ford V6s are considered very good for their size (the KL series), but they only go up to 2.5L.
Nissan's new VQ35DE in their 350Z and Maxima might be an option. I don't know if you guys get those cars in the UK? The Maxima uses them in a FWD configuration with a 6-speed transmission and helical LSD. With freed up intake and exhaust they can produce around 240-250 hp and ft-lbs of torque at the wheels. All-aluminum, variable intake cam and a flat torque curve. If (when?) you need more, there are people supercharging them too (as I imagine a turbo setup on a V6 wouldn't come close to fitting under the hood). Not sure on the price of the engine, but there are many maximas on the road, so it can't be too bad. Only problem is that its a 3.5L, so its probably larger than the 3.0L ford.
I didn't know they had done any wind tunnel testing, thats great news. Are they planning on releasing that, and the other data they got from MIRA? Also, do you know if the Aeon's uprights and hubs are based off the standard Sierra stuff?
>> Edited by GrantB on Monday 19th January 03:33
mattstead said:
Of course it would need a much more powerfull engine than a 2.0L NA 4-banger
Odd, I've always found big V8's to not rev too high and deliver lots of low down torque, where as us brits have high revving peaky engines, so in reference to your quote, so little top end what?
Don't worry Matt, septics don't get the point of a well sorted 4 pot, they just need oooddles of torque, they don't know how to change gear you see.... Sorry stick shift, I think that's what they call it.....
:ducksforcover: Mark B
catflap said:
Incidentally if anyone knows where to get one of these V6 engines can you let me know, would also like to know the cost too.
If you can make contact with the right people apparently these engines are available for about £4k new from Ford - that's the latest 3.0 as fitted to a Lincoln and the ST220 Mondeo. There are probably stocks of the ST170 / 200 2.5 litre (or liter if some of us prefer
) engines left which should come in less than that. I understand Ford control the release of these engines so you can't spec a part-build leaving off, say, exhausts, air intake and PS pump - you have to take the lot and throw away anything you don't need.
'Fraid I haven't made the right contacts so although I heard about the cost and availability, I don't know who you make the cheque payable to...
Hay grant
As far as I understood the 3.0L V6 is currently available in the UK, its in the new mondeo ST220 and new Jag. AS for availability, well Jay mentioned 4k for a new engine BLIMEY, I think that’s well over my anticipated budget for an engine alone (i should imaging there would be at least 2k to add to that, to complete the engine/gearbox and ancillaries alone) and its not really producing amazing power.
Britishamerican engines will do you 350 of throbbing sva friendly V8 for that, and I know id be heading that rout if other options prove too expensive (that’s if its possible to drop a V8 in the back – I haven’t seen the size yet).
I`m still looking for 400bhp/T
It would be a good opportunity for the dudes at aeon to try look at the plausible engine options other than a in line 4 duratec, as im sure others would want a more powerful engine (then again, I suppose peoples perception of performance depends on their previous experience)
Keep the options coming dudes, its quite important that a decent engine option be identified before anyone gets a kit.
If the factory realise that the demand is for higher spec engines, im sure they would accomodate *cought* small block chevvy please *cough* hehe
>> Edited by catflap on Monday 19th January 15:45
As far as I understood the 3.0L V6 is currently available in the UK, its in the new mondeo ST220 and new Jag. AS for availability, well Jay mentioned 4k for a new engine BLIMEY, I think that’s well over my anticipated budget for an engine alone (i should imaging there would be at least 2k to add to that, to complete the engine/gearbox and ancillaries alone) and its not really producing amazing power.
Britishamerican engines will do you 350 of throbbing sva friendly
V8 for that, and I know id be heading that rout if other options prove too expensive (that’s if its possible to drop a V8 in the back – I haven’t seen the size yet). I`m still looking for 400bhp/T
It would be a good opportunity for the dudes at aeon to try look at the plausible engine options other than a in line 4 duratec, as im sure others would want a more powerful engine (then again, I suppose peoples perception of performance depends on their previous experience)
Keep the options coming dudes, its quite important that a decent engine option be identified before anyone gets a kit.
If the factory realise that the demand is for higher spec engines, im sure they would accomodate
*cought* small block chevvy please *cough* hehe >> Edited by catflap on Monday 19th January 15:45
catflap said:
If the factory realise that the demand is for higher spec engines, im sure they would accomodate
Over here we got this piece of crap car from Pontiac called a Ferio. A horrible car, but because of its mid-engine layout and cheapness it was the basis for a lot of projects (and cosmetic "kit cars"). One of which includes an LS1 swap! So there have been people to successfully swap a small-block chevy into a transversly mounted mid-engined car. I'd imagine a 90-degree V8 wouldn't come close to fitting in an Aeon though. I guess time will tell. Although the LS1 can produce lots of power, it does weigh 420lbs with all accesories and flywheel.
GrantB said:
Man I bet you guys think I all know how to do is turn left on ovals??
No, we Brits just think that you can only drive in straight lines on freeways, and even have to set your race cars up so that they turn for you round the ovals, whilst you the driver try to turn them to go straight.
This is how it is isn't it? Be honest now
LOL
Well shooting off on a tangent, i have been looking at some cozzy cars, seems you can pick a runner in fair condition for 3k, this would give you everything you need, engine, gearbox, diff, letrics, even brakes if you really wanted to use them.
Well its not as fancy as a new duratec, but may be a way to get our hands on some cheep power, 280hp is considered normal in these engines.
Then you break it and sell the parts and end up paying 1000 quid for everything you needed.
Well its an option.... if the V6/V8 thing don’t work out. I should imagine although it wouldn’t sound as nice as the other choices, But a snarling 280hp engine with all them chirpy noises they make may be interesting, especially when it pops, bangs and flames on the over run.
Anyone recon a 2wd Saffy coz engine and gearbox is ok for this sort of setup?
>> Edited by catflap on Monday 19th January 22:45
Well shooting off on a tangent, i have been looking at some cozzy cars, seems you can pick a runner in fair condition for 3k, this would give you everything you need, engine, gearbox, diff, letrics, even brakes if you really wanted to use them.
Well its not as fancy as a new duratec, but may be a way to get our hands on some cheep power, 280hp is considered normal in these engines.
Then you break it and sell the parts and end up paying 1000 quid for everything you needed.
Well its an option.... if the V6/V8 thing don’t work out. I should imagine although it wouldn’t sound as nice as the other choices, But a snarling 280hp engine with all them chirpy noises they make may be interesting, especially when it pops, bangs and flames on the over run.
Anyone recon a 2wd Saffy coz engine and gearbox is ok for this sort of setup?
>> Edited by catflap on Monday 19th January 22:45
If you only needed the engine and box there used to be breakers of Sierra Cossies in the back of Motoring News and probably still are - it would be a lot easier to get only the bits you need without having a rusty thrashed Sierra gradually getting smaller on your drive for 6 months 
and some of the engines are already tuned 
Edited to add - the AGM WLR uses this engine / box and seems to go quick - featured in new magazine "Track and Race Cars" I bought today. Totally O/T - good read, features and stuff, and cheats you into thnking CCC magazine has been reborn 'cos their header logo has certain influences shall we say! I was actually in the newsagents looking for WK and KC mags but let's not go there again eh?!
>> Edited by jay w on Monday 19th January 23:16
and some of the engines are already tuned Edited to add - the AGM WLR uses this engine / box and seems to go quick - featured in new magazine "Track and Race Cars" I bought today. Totally O/T - good read, features and stuff, and cheats you into thnking CCC magazine has been reborn 'cos their header logo has certain influences shall we say! I was actually in the newsagents looking for WK and KC mags but let's not go there again eh?!
>> Edited by jay w on Monday 19th January 23:16
catflap said:
3 grand + VAT for a V6 3.0L with 5 speed in line transmition..just been given a rough prive by engine supplyer.
Now that snot bad.. for engine and gear box...WIll it give 280bhp, thats the next research project for you all
It should do. You're supposed to be able to get 280bhp out of a NA 2.3 four pot Duratec. Obviously that's in full screaming race trim. Should be possible to do a more reliable job with the V6. Either that or nick the engine out of a Noble when the owner's not looking
Cheers,
Rob
catflap said:
WIll it give 280bhp, thats the next research project for you all
Noble M12 GTO-3R uses the 3.0 Duratec with twin turbos to give 352bhp and 350lbft.
Mountune (now Roush) are very well known for their Duratec tuning, I believe - Luego for example, sell anything up to a Mountune supplied Duratec I4 rated at 280bhp.
I dare ask how much the 300bhp v6 tune is that mountune do...
300bhp V6 ProCar type engine Ref: Jag300
The modern, all alloy design of the 3.0litre V6 is capable of high power outputs. Engine specifications include an inlet throttle body assembly, new camshaft profiles and fully programmable motorsport ECU. Prices depend on exact spec.
Added to say now can it be done for 5 grand or under
300bhp V6 ProCar type engine Ref: Jag300
The modern, all alloy design of the 3.0litre V6 is capable of high power outputs. Engine specifications include an inlet throttle body assembly, new camshaft profiles and fully programmable motorsport ECU. Prices depend on exact spec.
Added to say now can it be done for 5 grand or under
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