Future Middy Coupe Locost Design

[fuoriserie]

Opening up a new thread, using Stuart Mills thoughts and ideas, on the design of a Locost Middy Coupe, to update the R3 design.


(QUOTE)
Due to the unconventional styling of the R3 it was as not a big hit and is now only available to special order.
I always try to come up with designs that are easily distinguishable from main stream cars. If I was to make the R3 a two seater, increase the nose length and fit front hinged doors it would be comparable to an MR2. Then we look at costs and the Japs win every time. True we can sell the performance and handling aspects which walk all over MX5's etc but so do most kit cars.
Make a car extreme like the Rocket and sales flood in, try to compete with Mazda and you have an uphill battle.
So I reckon that if we can produce a kit that is a true performance machine but practical as in it has a roof and doors, then produce it at a locost, we may have something. That said, introduce all the above elements and get the styling wrong and the low price becomes irrelavant.
Next move then is to redesign the R3. Make it a 2 seat coupe with luggage space and a sliding hard top. Keep the price right and base it on a Mundaneo and it might work.
Ah but again even if its cheap and it performs it has to look great and not too similar to Mr Toyotas cars as a used MR2 is often cheaper than a kit.
I would say styling is of paramount importance.
The question is what should it look like. Maybe a new thread with the aim of attracting vibrant discussion on a future middy coupe locost theme would iron this one out. I will be looking and I will put my hand in my pocket and build a prototype if positive feedback comes through. I wont be the only one either as I know of a few kit firms who are looking for direction.
Regards Stuart

end QUOTE)

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 31st October 10:15

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 31st October 10:16

[fuoriserie]

grahambell said:

So maybe there could be a market for a mid-engined V6 coupe, but I think it needs to be a basic driver focused car with stunning performance rather than a plush 'everyday GT'. A sort of 'V6 Elise' perhaps.

Grahamm
I totally agree with you, it needs to be a more basic and simpler Elise, with the potential to use a v6 engine.

An exo-skeleton coupe design ?, with very little fiberglass work to manufacture.

Will show a few rough sketches soon....

[fuoriserie]

Well I started soft with the design of the new middy coupe.......a restyling, with a more aggresive design inspired by superbikes...

These are very, very rough sketches.....I'm working on two more different dsigns,so this is just a taste of few more to come...

I agree with the comments above, that making a locost middy coupe is a very hard task, but it is a nice challenge to work with, and in meeting the design brief could make a n interesting final design.

I used the new Mondeo front units.....more to come, but expect something different, maybe a litle less Locost.........

Edited by fuoriserie on Saturday 3rd November 15:32

[fuoriserie]

spyder dryver said:

The first one of the four has the most appeal to me. A hint of Raffo Belva at the rear, shades of Enzo at the front. I particularly like the side panel that reveals the chassis detail beneath and the vents at the base of the windscreen.
I can't see why this couldn't be done to a budget, apart from the bodywork.
And the glass.

I agree with you, the first one is pretty basic in its design, the windshield is exacty the same unit used by mev on their R3 kit.

The sides door openings are moulded polycarbonate, just like the old Dax Kamala units.

[fuoriserie]

Joe T said:

I like the top one the most.
Thats a big front screen, it will take some holding in place on a lightweight body, and cost a fair bit.

Joe,

the windshield is the same unit used by Mev, a Mazda 6 unit, if a remember correctly.....

[fuoriserie]

with a slightly longer wheelbase, I could see something like this.....

[fuoriserie]

Joe T said:

Looking good.

I had a quick look at the MEV site I guess you mean the screen from the R3? http://www.mevltd.co.uk/images/R3%20FRONT.jpg

Yes, that is the screen but with more rake...or that is the idea.....

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 6th November 15:32

[fuoriserie]

stig mills said:

I can see something really cool developing here!
My only concern would be proportions as I feel it maybe too low.
Hope these guide sizes are of use. Regards Stuart

Stuart,

Will try to rework the sketch on those dimensions........proportions are going to be the big challenge....

Cheers
Italo

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 7th November 13:06

[fuoriserie]

Davi said:

fuoriserie said:

with a slightly longer wheelbase, I could see something like this.....

much, much better than the initial suggestions.

Screen wise you could look at the last MR2 screens.

It's a similar shape - slightly more curved which I think would help - but from memory a little smaller.

Working on more detailed sketches, using this rough as a guide, but with the shorter wheelbase of the R3.

[fuoriserie]

was trying to finish up final renderings, but time isn't helping......so will post some very rough sketches instead...

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 11th December 13:01

[fuoriserie]

Alternative Rough sketches........
I do like the idea of a small,simple and lightweight mid-engine v6 Kit sportscar

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 11th December 15:41

[fuoriserie]

These 4 rough sketches , with the v6 mid-engine setup, using the Mev R3 chassis.

A 2 seater with polycarbonate doors, and minimal bodywork....will look better on my final renderings !

Edited by fuoriserie on Tuesday 11th December 15:40

[fuoriserie]

will post the front view tomorrow.........

[fuoriserie]

was wondering if something more retro in design, would be more interesting, for such a sportscar.

What do you guys think ?

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 12th December 09:12

[fuoriserie]

Foolish Dave said:

I like your designs above and think they'd be great transformed into a kit car, but I think there's more bodywork there than you may think, compared to the Mev it's based on, for sure.

If you could design a car with as little body work as the Mev, but make it more modern, or even retro-futuristic, then I think that would be a winner.

I agree with you, that there is a little more bodywork than the Mev, but in this niche market, we always need to remember about the used lotus Elise, that is a powerful competitor to any Kit sportscar.

Design can make a difference, but I feel the industry is afraid to embark on modern design, apart from a few exceptions, conservative retro designs account for 70% of the business !. (look at Sevens and Cobras, with all their derivatives....)

Very few modern designs make it in this industry, and of late, only the Ariel Atom and Murtaya come to kind, while the others, like the Toniq-R, that is a modern take on the seven, is having a tough time.

A pity, because it deserves to succed, it is a unique and modern design, trying to create a modern seven.

That is why i was thinking about Retro design, I believe it's the only sure bet, for a small kitcar manufacturer, with the existing kitcar buying enthusiasts.

I love the shape of The Phantom Vortex, a great combination of modern and retro design , but very few have found costumers.

Designing and building a modern kit sportscar is becoming difficult, because the parameters are high, and the return, the sale of the kit, is very uncertain if you go too modern.

I guess it all depends on what your goals are as a kitcar manufacturer, but think that very few are willing to risk on modern designs.

Retro sells, and will always, to the exhisting customer base, and the new customers are well catered for by what the kitcar market offers at the moment.....

[fuoriserie]

stig mills said:

Reducing GRP square meterage is also a good way to keep costs down.

Very true.........but how much is enough ?, what is the minimum that is still acceptable as a coupe, and still has a good design, acceptable and likable that can be sold ?,

The equation is quite difficult, if we can't define fully the design brief and parameters............here we're just having fun........

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 12th December 11:21

[fuoriserie]

stig mills said:

. Has anyone got any pics of concept cars for inspiration?

here you go:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/

Edited by fuoriserie on Wednesday 12th December 11:41

[fuoriserie]

Foolish Dave said:

Reducing the amount of glass too; it's heavy stuff and expensive for the requirements of automotive use.

agree.......but mine would be polycarbonate, plexiglass, not real glass.

[fuoriserie]

RazMan said:

Italo, Polycarbonate is indeed very light but not exactly strong. I am in the process of prototyping some gull wing doors with a large window area made from polycarbonate. I have found that a sturdy steel frame is required to make it anywhere near strong enough for a door. Also your small hinge area will need a beefy hinge and lots of body stiffening or it will wobble and bind in the door shuts. I am abandoning my scissor doors in favour of gull wing which will hopefully fit the closure points more accurately.

Love the designs btw

Edited by RazMan on Thursday 13th December 21:44

Mike,
Thanks........and I totally agree with you on the steel frame, in fact it would be needed for such a big aperture, but I've come to the conclusion just like you, that gullwing doors would suit bettere this design.

Cheers
Italo

[fuoriserie]

The Venturi Volage, a similar concept in design, to my proposal with polycarbonate gullwing doors........but a year later......

http://www.venturivolage.fr/gtlight.html