Discussion
I read with interest the letter from Paul Davis printed on the letters page of Kit Car mag.
Being in a similar situation I can see where he is coming from.
There are lots of kits out there which can be built for less than £10k. Most are '7' type. Others that seem to cost less actually end up costing more when you add the extra's that aren't included in the basic kit price.
What cheap sports kits are there? (bar Banham)
Why can't there be a standard pricing structure?
eg. 3 categories of build.
1. Basic build - where using as much as the donor as poss with the kits and adding the essential bits you come up with a price. A bit like a race build but with no mods (engine etc) and donor interior.
2. Standard build - How the factory believe it should be built, to give the car a good specification, refurbing donor parts yourself, but without major modification.
3. Expert build - Top spec build including minor engine mods/rebuild and using mostly new components.
You could go a stage further with a no expense spared build, but I don't think that matters to most. Presently quotes seem to be somewhere below 'Basic build'.
Good idea to standardise industry prices?
How about magazines doing something similar when testing a car?
Being in a similar situation I can see where he is coming from.
There are lots of kits out there which can be built for less than £10k. Most are '7' type. Others that seem to cost less actually end up costing more when you add the extra's that aren't included in the basic kit price.
What cheap sports kits are there? (bar Banham)
Why can't there be a standard pricing structure?
eg. 3 categories of build.
1. Basic build - where using as much as the donor as poss with the kits and adding the essential bits you come up with a price. A bit like a race build but with no mods (engine etc) and donor interior.
2. Standard build - How the factory believe it should be built, to give the car a good specification, refurbing donor parts yourself, but without major modification.
3. Expert build - Top spec build including minor engine mods/rebuild and using mostly new components.
You could go a stage further with a no expense spared build, but I don't think that matters to most. Presently quotes seem to be somewhere below 'Basic build'.
Good idea to standardise industry prices?
How about magazines doing something similar when testing a car?
chris_n said:
All my invoices are kept in a secret box file and never ever added up! a lot of people I know who have built cars are similar and if we or our partners ever found out the real cost of the cars we have built then they would never repeat the process.
yep, me too. When I build my Tojeiro I just knew it was the kit I wanted and bought it bit by bit as I could raise the money. I wasn't particularly flush at the time so it came down to day to day decisions like shall I take the girlfried out for a meal or suggest we stay in and watch a video so I would be able to go and buy the fuel filler cap on Saturday morning!
To this day I don't know what the car cost me, but I do know it was worth it!
Chris
OK, so you both fit into the 4th category - who cares how much it costs to build!
From the replies of you 2, it seems the industry pricing suits you . . . . well, suits what you let your other half know.
Ah well, the general concenous seems to think the industry has it right then? We'll give you a chassis and a few bits of bodywork, then let you just get on with it.
I really don't think it helps new converts, who come in the belief that you can build a fast good looking car yourself for a fraction of the cost of a 'real' one.
I know a Phantom will cost a fraction of a Ferrari and an Ultima hundreds of thousands less than a McLaren F1, but we are talking cheap cars here. Things that newbe's (like me) want to build.
I'm all for a little poetic licence when telling your partner the costs, but what if you have saved £7k and want a kit. Do you start looking for ones that the manufacturers list as costing £2-3k so you know there's enough left to get the car finished.
If this is the case, it's no wonder why so many kits remain unfinished.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 22 October 13:50
I really don't think it helps new converts, who come in the belief that you can build a fast good looking car yourself for a fraction of the cost of a 'real' one.
I know a Phantom will cost a fraction of a Ferrari and an Ultima hundreds of thousands less than a McLaren F1, but we are talking cheap cars here. Things that newbe's (like me) want to build.
I'm all for a little poetic licence when telling your partner the costs, but what if you have saved £7k and want a kit. Do you start looking for ones that the manufacturers list as costing £2-3k so you know there's enough left to get the car finished.
If this is the case, it's no wonder why so many kits remain unfinished.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 22 October 13:50
Aprisa said:
How many sets of unused Golfclubs lie in garages?
As I have said, kits are a hobby, how many sports or pastimes are costed down to the last pound? speak to a Sailor, Golfer or Skier and ask if they took every aspect of their hobby on board before committing
Nick
I bet these golf clubs were used a few times before gathering dust in said garages. I bet some of the people that sell kits due to lack of funds would love to have been able to drive them first.
Does a golfer go to the golf shop and get told 'your clubs will cost £xxx sir'. Then when he picks them up he still needs a 9 iron, putter and bag to put 'em in?
With any hobby, you go into it knowing what you will need to start off with. A point from which you can start a proper collection etc. This information is readily available too. With a kit you need a degree in mathematics just to get the cost of a rolling chassis.
I know it's a hobby, and generally it's a process of continual improvement, just as your average boy racer continually 'improves' (I use that loosely) his Nova. The boy racer had a start point for his costs though, ie. the base car cost.
Aprisa
I think we can both see where each is coming from.
I didn't start this thread to go deeply into my issues, but more to find how poeple feel about how vague prices really are.
Me personally: I want to be able to say 'I built this'.
However I have difficulty with '7' type cars (fitting in etc), don't really like the look or how common they are and found it very difficult to find a reasonably priced 'other' type.
Even with this, the company say you can build it for around £7500. After studying the brochures & price list, this may be possible if you don't fasten the panels on, find a free donor, except whatever finish it comes with, use all donor parts and make a few bits yourself (from the panels of the donor). I recon a little under £9k will get me a good base, good enough to show off to others and ready for future improvement.
Back to the point of vague pricing and seeing some uniformity in the structure.
I think we can both see where each is coming from.
I didn't start this thread to go deeply into my issues, but more to find how poeple feel about how vague prices really are.
Me personally: I want to be able to say 'I built this'.
However I have difficulty with '7' type cars (fitting in etc), don't really like the look or how common they are and found it very difficult to find a reasonably priced 'other' type.
Even with this, the company say you can build it for around £7500. After studying the brochures & price list, this may be possible if you don't fasten the panels on, find a free donor, except whatever finish it comes with, use all donor parts and make a few bits yourself (from the panels of the donor). I recon a little under £9k will get me a good base, good enough to show off to others and ready for future improvement.
Back to the point of vague pricing and seeing some uniformity in the structure.
But surely by structured pricing we'd be able to compare kits on equal terms. If you take 2 kits costing say £4k each. The final build to get similar specs could be £6k for one and £10k for the other.
Why can't manufacturers be honest?
Can't we take the truth?
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 22 October 16:58
Why can't manufacturers be honest?
Can't we take the truth?
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Wednesday 22 October 16:58
mattstead said:
Personally , I always struggle to justify it when I start doing the sums. If WK can build a "Budget" car for 5K then doe's that mean that us with "only" 3K will have to make do with restoring secondhand Duttons (highly underated).
In the case of WK?, that's an experienced builder.
Going back to MarkB's point. Once you've done it, you know where you can save a bit more.
I'm guessing, but I image their 'sub £5k' car would probably cost an unexperienced builder closer to £6k.
Now that one's easy.
Robin Hood do (or used to) a 2B and also a sub'k'.
The theory is that you can build it for a grand +vat.
Make it a little harder. We want a reasonably decent kit for less than £4k. one you want to show off to your friends and other builders.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Thursday 23 October 12:18
Robin Hood do (or used to) a 2B and also a sub'k'.
The theory is that you can build it for a grand +vat.
Make it a little harder. We want a reasonably decent kit for less than £4k. one you want to show off to your friends and other builders.
>> Edited by Ex-Biker on Thursday 23 October 12:18
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